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      09-26-2012, 09:46 AM   #331
makkan00
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
What interests me Makka (apart from whether the software will work) is whether having the software upgraded will remove my 'enhanced' map,and return it to the stock map?

I've read recently of an X5 owner who's car was kept overnight,which to me sounds like a long time for a software upgrade if it just focuses on the security.
Will you be able to find out from the files you have, whether it will have an impact for those with enhanced maps?

Cheers in advance.


Ian, if this software is updated alone (without updating other modules), it should not interfere with your 'enhanced' map as 'enhanced' map is stored somewhere else.

However BMW has a tendency to update 'all modules' together. And if that is what they are going to do (which I highly doubt it due to the amount of BMWs coming to them for this update), then unfortunately people may loose their enhanced maps.


There is another challenge for me yet. I need to find out how does this 'blank key clonning' works so I can test 'upgraded software' against that mechanism.

Will update you mate.
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      09-26-2012, 10:11 AM   #332
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Ian, if this software is updated alone (without updating other modules), it should not interfere with your 'enhanced' map as 'enhanced' map is stored somewhere else.

However BMW has a tendency to update 'all modules' together. And if that is what they are going to do (which I highly doubt it due to the amount of BMWs coming to them for this update), then unfortunately people may loose their enhanced maps.


There is another challenge for me yet. I need to find out how does this 'blank key clonning' works so I can test 'upgraded software' against that mechanism.

Will update you mate.
Cheers Makka.

I'm guessing (and hoping) that the upgrade will be done 'locally' as in the dealers will have the files to hand (your earlier post seems to suggest this),and the cars won't need plugging into the 'Motherboard' at BMW AG.

Time will tell on this,and hopefully you might be able to find out more,and let us know.

On your other challenge,and it might be the case that you know this:

The key fob is NOT the problem,the problem lies with the car itself.

The car makes the key 'compatible' with the car that is to be stolen.

In other words,if there was a BMW next to mine,my key could be inserted into the other car,and THAT car would make my key compatible with the car the key was in.

I hope that helps (If you didn't know)
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      09-26-2012, 01:36 PM   #333
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I do not know if anybody else has suggested the following. You guys who are moving the OBD connector and installing a dummy one in its place, is it possible that the dummy one could be wired to damage the thieves equipment? The gear they use to read the codes cannot be cheap. It might make them think twice.
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      09-27-2012, 12:17 AM   #334
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I've had a letter from my insurers too, Direct Line iirc.
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      09-27-2012, 01:11 AM   #335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy-stoat View Post
I would of thought that the next step for the thieves would be just to connect straight into the wiring behind the a/c panel and forget completely about the OBC port.
We know that the scum are lacking in the brain department, maybe not sensible to give the scum any tips on how to steal our cars
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      09-27-2012, 03:01 AM   #336
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You can take my comment one of two ways,

Giving scum some tips on how to steal our cars or giving us some tips how to protect them.
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      09-27-2012, 06:55 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by foxy-stoat
You can take my comment one of two ways,

Giving scum some tips on how to steal our cars or giving us some tips how to protect them.
In that region, car is covered due to sensors.
But there is no point of giving people idea on where else you can take the input/ output with some alteration.
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      09-27-2012, 07:50 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John320d View Post
I do not know if anybody else has suggested the following. You guys who are moving the OBD connector and installing a dummy one in its place, is it possible that the dummy one could be wired to damage the thieves equipment? The gear they use to read the codes cannot be cheap. It might make them think twice.
Watchdog quoted about 6k for the equipment but I don't doubt it will be available considerably cheaper.

It'd probably be fairly easy to wire up a dummy OBD to fry their gizmo but I'd rather they left my car than
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      09-27-2012, 10:08 AM   #339
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Originally Posted by IanS100 View Post
Watchdog quoted about 6k for the equipment but I don't doubt it will be available considerably cheaper.

It'd probably be fairly easy to wire up a dummy OBD to fry their gizmo but I'd rather they left my car than
Most of the digital things have some sort of potection, either surge protection or relay to cut the supply input.

So if you try to fry their kit, nothing will happen to their kit.


However as Ian said, you will need to play with your car to setup something like that.

And at the top of that, do you think that they will leave your car alone once they discovered what you tried to do?

Be prepared to have acid on your car or deep scratches least to say.
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      10-04-2012, 03:18 PM   #340
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
I am not going to say a lot here, but yesterday I got a copy of this 'upgraded software' which BMW is going to launch soon.
I hope I get sometime this sunday to explore the files and give it a try on my car. Keeping my fingers crossed and I hope it really resolves this issue.
Any news on this fella?

Rumours seem to be that the 'upgraded software' has nothing to with the OBD/keys,but is focused on making the car more secure in terms of access,which to me points to the alarm,the sensors and the blind spot.
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      10-04-2012, 03:40 PM   #341
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post
Any news on this fella?

Rumours seem to be that the 'upgraded software' has nothing to with the OBD/keys,but is focused on making the car more secure in terms of access,which to me points to the alarm,the sensors and the blind spot.

Ahhh!
So what is the point of upgrading it if it focuses just sensors. Typical BMW!

Ian, I was installing my music system over the weekend. And did not get the time to update this software.

Will give it a go over this weekend hopefully.

I read a bit on this clonning kit and understood some of it. A key can be coded only once and these people are changing the chips inside the same key fob for every new venture.

There are two approaches if BMW really wants to secure it;

a) BMW completely disables OBD port with locking. Not difficult for them and I hope they have done this. As this seems to be best solution for the future problems as well. If this is the case, then I can check it and confirm it easily, once update the module.

b) BMW encrypt the information which is stored in specific module so the sensitive information cannot be pulled out easily. Again they can simply encrypt it to relatively safer mode / level or alter the module in a way that those kits cannot access the information.
Approach B will be risky as hackers will find the ways to decrypt it soon and get the information again.

In all honesty, I am not expecting much from BMW (as you said that they focused just on sensors).

Meanwhile, can somebody lend me this 'clonning kit', so I can try it before and after the update? This is the only way to confirm whether approach B works (if that is really what they have done).
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      10-04-2012, 04:10 PM   #342
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As previously mentioned makkan, BMWs hands are tied re: what they can do to lock out the OBD port. If they put a layer of encryption between the port and the ECU then a thousand and one independents and their customers are going to be rather unhappy. And there are EU regulations in force to stop them doing just that. If ways around that encryption are then supplied to said indies then obviously that will get out and we're back to square one.

I'm not sure if I have contributed to this particular topic but my view is there is a certain amount of hysteria and to a point I do sympathise with BMW. I don't think this problem (or widely available tech know-how) did exist in the years that the E9x was in development and during it's early production. The major failing as I see it is in BMWs poor security system for RHD cars and the fact that they haven't acted before now to do something about the sensor coverage. That obviously means the so-called upgrade will focus on as Hotcoupe says 'the alarm, the sensors and the blind spot'. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding things that's the only thing BMW can do.
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      10-04-2012, 04:57 PM   #343
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Quote:
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As previously mentioned makkan, BMWs hands are tied re: what they can do to lock out the OBD port. If they put a layer of encryption between the port and the ECU then a thousand and one independents and their customers are going to be rather unhappy. And there are EU regulations in force to stop them doing just that. If ways around that encryption are then supplied to said indies then obviously that will get out and we're back to square one.
Rich, with method 'a' suggested, OBD port will be disabled only when the car is locked. It will not affect the funtionality of the car and I cannot imagine if any indy will work on a car after locking it. So it is as simple as it is.

With mthod 'b', they need to secure the level of key's algorithm only and nothing else. But I can see that it will fail as it failed now. When e9x security system was designed, it was secure but now there are ways around it. If BMW improves the security of key's data (more specifically pulling out the information from specific module), people will find ways to crack that one as well.


Quote:
Originally Posted by rich1068 View Post
The major failing as I see it is in BMWs poor security system for RHD cars and the fact that they haven't acted before now to do something about the sensor coverage. That obviously means the so-called upgrade will focus on as Hotcoupe says 'the alarm, the sensors and the blind spot'. Unless I'm completely misunderstanding things that's the only thing BMW can do.
Well I have tested both sides of UK specs cars (more than 1) and it is no surprise to me that NSF area is as incompetent as OSF.

I just hope that this update is not just the tweaking of sensors settings but hopefully more than that.
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      10-05-2012, 05:12 AM   #344
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I defer to your superior knowledge with these matters makkan. I only have a basic understanding of these things.

As far as the update is concerned, my car is in at the stealers at the moment and has been for over three weeks. As you can imagine I'm on fairly easy terms with my service contact. I did mention this when I got my daily report yesterday and I pulled his leg about whether the update actually existed and commended him on his adherence to the company line. I'll try and get some more info out of him today.
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      10-05-2012, 08:10 AM   #345
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Sensible thing here would be for BMW to simply move the ODB port into the boot beside the battery then it would be secure from the inadequacies of the ultrasound alarm sensors...
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      10-05-2012, 08:18 AM   #346
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Sensible thing here would be for BMW to simply move the ODB port into the boot beside the battery then it would be secure from the inadequacies of the ultrasound alarm sensors...
But think of the cost to do that and the time it would take

As said, the most sensible approach is for BMW is to simply disable the OBD port when the ignition is switched off
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      10-06-2012, 04:49 AM   #347
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This is quoted from another BMW forum

Quote:
Hi,

Having just spent the best part of an hour with a BMW tech who is applying the software update to the X6 & X5, I came across some very interesting information. Apparently the would be thefts are not breaking any windows to gain access and if you watch the video's carefully this is confirmed. They are simply using an electronic gadget to make all the windows drop the same way we can from our key fobs. Although we can disable this option using NCS expert, apparently this can still be over-ridden with this gadget.

The software update being installed simply totally removes the "all windows drop function". He said that there will be at least a further 4 weeks before the update is ready for the E60. The software update should only take 1hr BUT it has taken up to 7hrs on some X5 & 6

Hope the info helps he also said that the best way to be kept in the loop is to register on the 0800 number. His advice to deter them is to buy a decent steering wheel lock which I have already done and as the shelves were empty in my local halfords I guess everyone has done the same
Audi & Merc are also looking in to this as they all apparently have a similar option.

Cheers

Well if that is the case, the update is a waste of time and will offer bugger all extra security. 90% of these thefts are committed by smashing the window so BMW, your a cop out if this is true!!
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      10-06-2012, 06:38 AM   #348
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shortie View Post
This is quoted from another BMW forum




Well if that is the case, the update is a waste of time and will offer bugger all extra security. 90% of these thefts are committed by smashing the window so BMW, your a cop out if this is true!!
Can somebody provide any video in which these gangs drop the windows rather smashing it?
I'd love to see one.
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      10-06-2012, 07:54 AM   #349
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The window theory (dropping the window with fob) makes sense,I've mentioned before a link between the fob controlling the windows,and the wing mirrors, if you have that option enabled.

However,that theory is arguably flawed, as the key used to drop the windows, would I would have imagined, had to have been 'enabled' by the car itself,prior to the key being used in this way.

But I've read quite a few comments about the window method,some comments clearly come from people who know far more than me,and many others,and the consensus of opinion seems to be that pushing a screwdriver into the lock,does drop the windows,somehow.

However the biggest flaw is the car itself,and the way the security system can enable ANY compatible key which then enables that key to be used to drive the car away.

Going back to the rumour that the only software upgrade/modificaton BMW will be making is to the alarm system/sensors/blindspot,it makes sense to move the OBD port back to wherever people had hidden it,prior to the upgrade.

I certainly will.

Regardless of how effective BMW owners feel about this upgrade/enhancement/modification (take your pick!),it would be unwise to not have the work carried out.
I'd imagine that should your car get nicked, the insurers first port of call will be to BMW itself, to make sure the owner did have the work done.

Not having it done, leaves you at risk of a charge of negligence by your insurer,and the possibility of a voided policy!
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      10-06-2012, 07:40 PM   #350
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Back in my modded Honda Civic days, if you spent shit loads on customising your car and you wanted to decrease the chances of it being stolen or broken into, it was almost gospel to fit an aftermarket alarm regardless of the value or age of the car.
I am suprised by how most on here are making it clear (throught their many posts) that they havent fitted or plan to fit an aftermarket alarm/tracker and are just relying on the standard BMW kit. Would have thought an extra 1000 to help protect your 30,000+ purchase would be the norm.
Does this mean that M3 guys dont actually fit trackers to their high risk cars then?
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      10-07-2012, 03:10 AM   #351
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Yes but once you code a blank key to car the normal tracking unit thinks its a normal proper key and does not get activated

The only tracking unit that works is the fancy one in which you need a seperate fob which has to with you when your driving the car. This will activate once a thief drives off with car
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      10-07-2012, 04:19 AM   #352
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hotcoupe View Post

Regardless of how effective BMW owners feel about this upgrade/enhancement/modification (take your pick!),it would be unwise to not have the work carried out.
I'd imagine that should your car get nicked, the insurers first port of call will be to BMW itself, to make sure the owner did have the work done.

Not having it done, leaves you at risk of a charge of negligence by your insurer,and the possibility of a voided policy!
^^^^
Thats the bottom line.
No matter what BMW does, those who are eligible for 'enhancement' should go for it.
Otherwise your insurance can be seen void in case if your car is stolen.
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