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      09-17-2012, 10:30 PM   #1
TxBeem
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Trying out E85 with JB4...

Well, I noticed the engine is more alive however I was trying to do a few WOT in 3 rd gear to allow the computer to "learn" and I felt some harsh vibration and a stutter at 5500RPM and above. I was a little concern so I backed off. No check engine light. No limp mode. I put about 4.5 gallons of e85 and there was probably 8-9 gallons of 93 in the tank. What do ou think is going on?
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      09-17-2012, 10:49 PM   #2
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Did you do any other changes to your fuel system before putting e85 in the tank and flooring it?
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      09-17-2012, 10:53 PM   #3
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I updated to the latest firmware. Got e85. Drove for 15 mins without going above3000rpm. Drove to work this morning...25 mins of driving. I couldn't the hardcore pulls until this evening coming home from work where there wasn't traffic. That's when I noticed the misfires I guess. I wonder if I got too much e85. I wastrying to calculate about 40% e85 when I filled it.
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      09-17-2012, 11:01 PM   #4
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That happened to me and I thought the same thing, read the n54 notes that talk about open loop and futureA2, I think that's your problem.
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      09-17-2012, 11:02 PM   #5
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I'm not sure how kosher the stock fuel system is for "flexfuel" type usage. I do know that typically you'd need much bigger injectors to run e85 though (my example being with turbo rx7's: I run 93 octane with 2x 1000cc injectors and 2x 2000cc injectors and that, plus water/meth injection gets me safely to 20psi. If I were to run e85 I'd be pushing an extra 3000-4000cc's of fuel on top of that.)

I could be absolutely wrong, but I'd be guessing that maybe you leaned out because you replaced 40% of your fuel with e85 while still delivering it in the same amounts as pump (93 octane) fuel?
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      09-17-2012, 11:08 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBeem View Post
I updated to the latest firmware. Got e85. Drove for 15 mins without going above3000rpm. Drove to work this morning...25 mins of driving. I couldn't the hardcore pulls until this evening coming home from work where there wasn't traffic. That's when I noticed the misfires I guess. I wonder if I got too much e85. I wastrying to calculate about 40% e85 when I filled it.
I don't think it was do to the E85 mixture, I use the same as you did 5 to 9.
I think it is just the car still learning as it what your fist WOTs?
Try disabling Auto Code Clear, and try re-create the problem while logging. That's that I always do every time I add something new to my car.
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      09-17-2012, 11:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBeem View Post
Well, I noticed the engine is more alive however I was trying to do a few WOT in 3 rd gear to allow the computer to "learn" and I felt some harsh vibration and a stutter at 5500RPM and above. I was a little concern so I backed off. No check engine light. No limp mode. I put about 4.5 gallons of e85 and there was probably 8-9 gallons of 93 in the tank. What do ou think is going on?


How old are your plugs? Sound like a misfire. If you stayed in it it will throw a code. If it does and your plugs are new swap the coil to see if it moves.
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      09-17-2012, 11:13 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fendamonky View Post
I'm not sure how kosher the stock fuel system is for "flexfuel" type usage. I do know that typically you'd need much bigger injectors to run e85 though (my example being with turbo rx7's: I run 93 octane with 2x 1000cc injectors and 2x 2000cc injectors and that, plus water/meth injection gets me safely to 20psi. If I were to run e85 I'd be pushing an extra 3000-4000cc's of fuel on top of that.)

I could be absolutely wrong, but I'd be guessing that maybe you leaned out because you replaced 40% of your fuel with e85 while still delivering it in the same amounts as pump (93 octane) fuel?
The N54 fuel system can handle 100% e85 with a flash to support it. No need to upgrade the injectors or pumps if they are working 100% as long as you are running the stock turbos.

I have had 3 FD's over the years and you're right, you can't put too much injector in those things.
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      09-17-2012, 11:21 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myaddiction View Post
The N54 fuel system can handle 100% e85 with a flash to support it. No need to upgrade the injectors or pumps if they are working 100% as long as you are running the stock turbos.
Now THAT is nifty cool, i didn't know it was such a simple conversion for an N54.
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      09-18-2012, 01:12 AM   #10
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I'm running PROcede rev 3 with Flex kit and DME Flash. Car pulls like a rocket. Traction control flashes through 3rd gear if I don't turn it off. I'm running about 60% e85 and plan to run 90% as soon as I can fill up. After getting the DME Flash, my trims have been perfect and I haven't coded due to fuel trims like I was before getting flashed.

I actually road in a Z4 with a JB4 only on map 5 with 30% e85 Saturday night. I have to say for a car that didn't have any other mods, it was crazy fast. But the car codes (limp mode) after shifting into 4th at wot. He showed me his logs and his trims are max'd out and his AFR's are really high, way too high. Although your car might feel like it's pulling really hard when you push the boost up, but if you're not logging and keeping track of your AFR's and Fuel Trims, you are rolling the dice. I know someone said Terry has a COBB map to put down on the DME so you can stack the JB4. If you know someone that has a COBB, have them flash your DME. I personally wouldn't run out an buy a COBB to just flash so I could run my JB4 with e85... But I'm sure some people will. Anyway, if you can get your DME fixed so you're able to run more fuel like the PROcede flash, you can crank your boost targets up as well as your timing with high eth levels. Just go slow and keep logs so you know when enough is enough.
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      09-18-2012, 02:16 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
If you know someone that has a COBB, have them flash your DME.
Unless they changed it, you can't just "flash" someone else's car with a COBB, it becomes married to it.

OP, what you're describing sounds like what I experienced when I had a misfire in cylinder 5. I replaced the plugs and it has been fine since. As mentioned, you should run without auto-clear if you're not already. It should throw a code and you'll know for sure.
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      09-18-2012, 02:24 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myaddiction View Post
The N54 fuel system can handle 100% e85 with a flash to support it. No need to upgrade the injectors or pumps if they are working 100% as long as you are running the stock turbos.

I have had 3 FD's over the years and you're right, you can't put too much injector in those things.
sure? because i havent seen anybody running 100% putting down big numbers without meth.
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      09-18-2012, 02:26 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
I'm running PROcede rev 3 with Flex kit and DME Flash. Car pulls like a rocket. Traction control flashes through 3rd gear if I don't turn it off. I'm running about 60% e85 and plan to run 90% as soon as I can fill up. After getting the DME Flash, my trims have been perfect and I haven't coded due to fuel trims like I was before getting flashed.

I actually road in a Z4 with a JB4 only on map 5 with 30% e85 Saturday night. I have to say for a car that didn't have any other mods, it was crazy fast. But the car codes (limp mode) after shifting into 4th at wot. He showed me his logs and his trims are max'd out and his AFR's are really high, way too high. Although your car might feel like it's pulling really hard when you push the boost up, but if you're not logging and keeping track of your AFR's and Fuel Trims, you are rolling the dice. I know someone said Terry has a COBB map to put down on the DME so you can stack the JB4. If you know someone that has a COBB, have them flash your DME. I personally wouldn't run out an buy a COBB to just flash so I could run my JB4 with e85... But I'm sure some people will. Anyway, if you can get your DME fixed so you're able to run more fuel like the PROcede flash, you can crank your boost targets up as well as your timing with high eth levels. Just go slow and keep logs so you know when enough is enough.
Please do log when you run 90% (without meth) and post the results . also do you have logs on 60%?
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      09-18-2012, 02:39 AM   #14
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I feel like it could be from the car NEVER going wide open throttle with that much E85 for the first time. Your motor has only seen pump gas so under WOT something like that could be possible. But honestly I think you just had a misfire from what you are describing. Find out when the last time the plugs were changed and also find out if your car has had the HPFP/injector recall. On a tuned car the general rule for plugs if I'm not mistaken is 10k-15k miles. I do mine every 10, well last time was 12k miles.

From what I understand, BMW scans your injector to see if it is a "failed unit" and then replace it but usually only THAT injector. Thank God my service advisor and I are buddies growing up and I had ALL mine replaced
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      09-18-2012, 08:56 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by enrita View Post
sure? because i havent seen anybody running 100% putting down big numbers without meth.
I'm sure you've seen the Procede Flash cars? Several are straight E85 with no meth. Not to mention several guys with Cobb flashes running 100%. Terry is running 100% with RB's etc...

It been proven numerous times as long your stock fuel system is operating correctly 100% E85 is possible with the correct tune.
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      09-18-2012, 09:00 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Myaddiction View Post
I'm sure you've seen the Procede Flash cars? Several are straight E85 with no meth. Not to mention several guys with Cobb flashes running 100%. Terry is running 100% with RB's etc...

It been proven numerous times as long your stock fuel system is operating correctly 100% E85 is possible with the correct tune.
nope havent seen anything on this forum from a user. By a user i dont mean a vendor. I am interested in facts not talk or heard.
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      09-18-2012, 09:46 AM   #17
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That sounds exactly like what happened to me. Ended up just being a misfire on cylinder 5. Let the car throw the code so you know what cylinders need new plugs.
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      09-18-2012, 09:54 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TxBeem View Post
Well, I noticed the engine is more alive however I was trying to do a few WOT in 3 rd gear to allow the computer to "learn" and I felt some harsh vibration and a stutter at 5500RPM and above. I was a little concern so I backed off. No check engine light. No limp mode. I put about 4.5 gallons of e85 and there was probably 8-9 gallons of 93 in the tank. What do ou think is going on?
Post some logs
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      09-18-2012, 10:37 AM   #19
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set FutureUseA=2 then increase then start at 75 but if you get a fuel code 29f2 lower it by 5 if you run lean (2 flashing ses lights) increase the number by 5 until it goes away.
wow nobody knows jb4 on these forums lol
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      09-18-2012, 10:54 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kkashanchi
set FutureUseA=2 then increase then start at 75 but if you get a fuel code 29f2 lower it by 5 if you run lean (2 flashing ses lights) increase the number by 5 until it goes away.
wow nobody knows jb4 on these forums lol
I'm gonna research this more but thank you! I just need to get into the JB4 and make these changes. I learn more from seeing errors and mistakes and figuring out how to fix it. So thanks again.
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      09-18-2012, 11:07 AM   #21
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No reason to turn auto tune off. Upgrade to latest FW-

Also- OP. the shuttering u got was the auto learn. It was a learning. What you think the motor will blow? Not happening. Ever. Car has too many fail safes. Single turbo set ups running almost double Hp and tq. And you newbs think your going to blow your engine with a map not even a flash. Smh

You guys make me laugh with ur fear and "roll of the dice" comments


Such newbs.
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      09-18-2012, 11:59 AM   #22
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Thanks... I wasn't aware they vin locked. So how are people selling their used access ports if they lock? Will COBB unlock them? Honestly, I wouldn't mind having one if the price was right. Just so I could backup my current DME in case the dealership does something to my car if I take it in for CPO.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Unless they changed it, you can't just "flash" someone else's car with a COBB, it becomes married to it.

OP, what you're describing sounds like what I experienced when I had a misfire in cylinder 5. I replaced the plugs and it has been fine since. As mentioned, you should run without auto-clear if you're not already. It should throw a code and you'll know for sure.
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