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      10-01-2015, 12:50 PM   #1
m9bm
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335d Carbon Build Up

Just got an SES light. Car went in to the dealer for diagnosis.
They came back and said carbon build up.

2010 335d - 64xxx miles

I have the BMW gold warranty til 2017 or 100k.
They said they were not sure if BMW would cover this repair, and would get back to me today.

I think the general consensus is that this is covered, correct?

My only concern is that the dealer knows I had a JBD installed (it's currently removed, but the codes were not cleared because I was afraid of wiping the SES light away.)
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      10-01-2015, 01:14 PM   #2
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Did you remove the JBD before bringing it to them? The way the instructions say to? By opening the hood then locking the doors then leave the keys in the house and wait 10-15 min so the comp goes to sleep?

But AFAIK the warranty should cover it.
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      10-01-2015, 01:21 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by naCAnItihS View Post
Did you remove the JBD before bringing it to them? The way the instructions say to? By opening the hood then locking the doors then leave the keys in the house and wait 10-15 min so the comp goes to sleep?

But AFAIK the warranty should cover it.
So that's how they put it to sleep. I was missing the open hood part.
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      10-01-2015, 02:17 PM   #4
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Welcome to the club. I got mine right around 63K. Should be covered. At this point, with all the history, if a dealer tried to stiff me on a carbon cleaning because of a JBD I'd raise holy hell.
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      10-01-2015, 05:47 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gavronm View Post
Welcome to the club. I got mine right around 63K. Should be covered. At this point, with all the history, if a dealer tried to stiff me on a carbon cleaning because of a JBD I'd raise holy hell.
I just heard back from them..this is exactly what they're trying to do.
They said BMW NA will not cover it because they detected tune codes.
The JBD is removed and the car is currently stock.

Now what do I do?

@[Charlie@McKennaBMWService](contact:199095) was kind enough to check my VIN for me, and it's currently NOT flagged in the system. He advised me not to contact BMW NA regarding this issue.

I'm quite concerned.
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      10-01-2015, 05:51 PM   #6
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Originally Posted by 335D Alpha Pappa View Post
So that's how they put it to sleep. I was missing the open hood part.
Well the opening of the hood first was so that you could lock the car and put the keys far away from it so the car couldn't detect them. Then the comp goes to sleep after 10-15 min.
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      10-01-2015, 07:12 PM   #7
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Hypothetically speaking, here's what I would do BEFORE taking car in to the dealer:

SES code for CBU comes up. Go home. Open hood. Lock car. Wait 10-15 min (I would wait until the next morning so the engine bay is nice and cool). Remove JBD. Reset all codes (incl. CBU codes) even if no tuner codes present, just to be safe. Drive it around until CBU codes come back (may be a while, but they will come back if it is CBU). Finally, bring it in to the dealer.

Obviously too late, but maybe you'll be OK and if you do the above and try again in a week at a different dealer, it'll be covered.

That being said, I know the SIB says very clearly that it's covered under original and CPO warranties but makes no mention of the extended warranties (i.e Gold). I've heard people having issues claiming under extended non-CPO warranty before, but perhaps they no longer differentiate.

Good luck.
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      10-01-2015, 07:27 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m9bm View Post
Just got an SES light. Car went in to the dealer for diagnosis.
They came back and said carbon build up.

2010 335d - 64xxx miles

I have the BMW gold warranty til 2017 or 100k.
They said they were not sure if BMW would cover this repair, and would get back to me today.

I think the general consensus is that this is covered, correct?

My only concern is that the dealer knows I had a JBD installed (it's currently removed, but the codes were not cleared because I was afraid of wiping the SES light away.)
Since this issue effects un modified cars, having a jbd shouldn't be a concern. Just contact someone who had a stock car with the same issue and get their invoice as proof that this is an endemic issue, that is if they hassle you.

The real question is if the gold warrenty covers cbu.
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      10-01-2015, 07:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m9bm View Post
Just got an SES light. Car went in to the dealer for diagnosis.
They came back and said carbon build up.

2010 335d - 64xxx miles

I have the BMW gold warranty til 2017 or 100k.
They said they were not sure if BMW would cover this repair, and would get back to me today.

I think the general consensus is that this is covered, correct?

My only concern is that the dealer knows I had a JBD installed (it's currently removed, but the codes were not cleared because I was afraid of wiping the SES light away.)
Take the JBD off and clear the codes. Drive the car and have it trigger the CBU codes again. Then take the car to a DIFFERENT dealer. A lot of dealerships just don't want to mess with the carbon cleaning on our diesels and very few of the technicians have actually had any experience doing them.
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      10-01-2015, 07:52 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NC335d View Post
Take the JBD off and clear the codes. Drive the car and have it trigger the CBU codes again. Then take the car to a DIFFERENT dealer. A lot of dealerships just don't want to mess with the carbon cleaning on our diesels and very few of the technicians have actually had any experience doing them.
This would mean I would have to pay $450 for the diagnostic. Ouch.
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      10-02-2015, 02:40 PM   #11
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This is why names should not be used in forums.


Quote:
Originally Posted by m9bm View Post
This would mean I would have to pay $450 for the diagnostic. Ouch.

Regardless, Charlie over at McKenna has checked my VIN. He suggests I retrieve the car without clearing any codes and drive down to LA and leave the car with him for a week. He says he can definitely cover it.

I think I will go that route.
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      10-03-2015, 01:41 PM   #12
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Removing JBD before going to the dealer is a given.

Clear all codes.
Go to a different dealer.
Tell them CA law states the cars sold here are covered by a 7yr/70k mile emission warranty.
Given the latest VW news it would be a lot better if they perform all the necessary work covered by the warranty before this emission issue blows out of proportion for BMW too.
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      10-03-2015, 03:43 PM   #13
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My own carbon build up story

I have a 2011 335 D with 74,0000 miles and a factor extended warranty untill 100 K miles.

My car is currently at the dealer with severe carbon buildup issues. This is after a prior walnut cleaning under warranty 15 K miles ago. The car has gone through injectors and multiple other repairs to date with what have been in excess of 20 K in charges had I not had a warranty. The dealer told me this time that BMW was not going to correct the issue and that I would be charged $3000. My car has never been chipped or modified in any fashion. I complained and made it clear that under US Federal emissions warranty regulations that all cars are covered by the manufacturer for 8 years and 80,000 miles to be emissions compliant. They changed their tune in a hurry and are now cleaning my engine under warranty.

It is absurd that this company is not standing behind this as a design flaw. Has anybody started a petition for a class action law suit on this? If not perhaps we need to. There are law firms actively pursuing the VW claims. The current carbon build up fiasco has damaged the value of are cars and the intentional willful refusal to acknowledge this problem is corporate greed and arrogance at its worst.
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      10-03-2015, 05:45 PM   #14
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A lot of us have opened cases with BMWNA for the past (maybe) 2 years. No attorneys have been contacted as far as I can remember.
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      10-03-2015, 06:58 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m9bm
Quote:
Originally Posted by gavronm View Post
Welcome to the club. I got mine right around 63K. Should be covered. At this point, with all the history, if a dealer tried to stiff me on a carbon cleaning because of a JBD I'd raise holy hell.
I just heard back from them..this is exactly what they're trying to do.
They said BMW NA will not cover it because they detected tune codes.
The JBD is removed and the car is currently stock.

Now what do I do?

@[Charlie@McKennaBMWService](contact:199095) was kind enough to check my VIN for me, and it's currently NOT flagged in the system. He advised me not to contact BMW NA regarding this issue.

I'm quite concerned.
What codes are deemed as "tune codes"?
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      10-03-2015, 08:07 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gdean View Post
I have a 2011 335 D with 74,0000 miles and a factor extended warranty untill 100 K miles.

My car is currently at the dealer with severe carbon buildup issues. This is after a prior walnut cleaning under warranty 15 K miles ago. The car has gone through injectors and multiple other repairs to date with what have been in excess of 20 K in charges had I not had a warranty. The dealer told me this time that BMW was not going to correct the issue and that I would be charged $3000. My car has never been chipped or modified in any fashion. I complained and made it clear that under US Federal emissions warranty regulations that all cars are covered by the manufacturer for 8 years and 80,000 miles to be emissions compliant. They changed their tune in a hurry and are now cleaning my engine under warranty.

It is absurd that this company is not standing behind this as a design flaw. Has anybody started a petition for a class action law suit on this? If not perhaps we need to. There are law firms actively pursuing the VW claims. The current carbon build up fiasco has damaged the value of are cars and the intentional willful refusal to acknowledge this problem is corporate greed and arrogance at its worst.
I am also at 74K miles with my 2010 335d and I have an BMW extended warranty up to 100K miles. My car has now the SES illuminated for 5 days and the idle is rough. Again, it is cylinder 4 injector code:4592 "Smoothness regulator cylinder 4 injector correction amount by adjusting the range" and code:4B06 "Set zero adjustment cylinder 4 injector". My car will be serviced Monday.

Usually it is cylinder #2 and #4. My service history (the paperwork at the dealer) is the size of a book. I usually have this kind of problem recurring every 6 months or less. So far I had 17 new injectors and many many other parts replacement, software update, PUMA case, etc.

Here is a brief list of components that have been replaced: 17 injectors, SCR tank, SCR container, SCR metering valve, vibration damper pulley, engine temperature sensor, exhaust backpressure sensor, SCR mixer, Blower output stage,...

If I add up the part cost not including the labor, it is likely that is above $15K.
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      10-03-2015, 08:27 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montr View Post
If I add up the part cost not including the labor, it is likely that is above $15K.
This is the reason I don't like to let anyone else work on my cars. $15k throwing random parts at an issue and not solving it is completely unacceptable. Are there any other dealerships near you? Maybe one that knows what diesel is?
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      10-03-2015, 10:19 PM   #18
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This is the reason I don't like to let anyone else work on my cars. $15k throwing random parts at an issue and not solving it is completely unacceptable. Are there any other dealerships near you? Maybe one that knows what diesel is?
I do not believe it is the dealership, the problem is the car. Last year, the car was at the dealer for 3 months total. They had a BMW engineer (from BMW NA) that made a visit to the dealer to try to resolve the multiple issues. According the SA, they had special software, not available to the dealer, to try to resolve the problems. They drove the car for few hundreds miles. After the fix, I am usually good for 3 to 6 months before another SES light. If the BMW engineer cannot fix it, who can?

Some of the issues are not related, the car has multiple problems. I am the original owner of the car. It was ordered in August 2009, built in October 2009 and took delivery at BMW performance center in SC in November 2009.

Last edited by montr; 10-03-2015 at 10:25 PM.
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      10-04-2015, 12:37 AM   #19
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If you get the same rough running codes every 3-6 months like you suggested above and have gone through 17 replacement injectors I would say there is an issue that has never been fixed. Its the car isn't really a substitute for that, if it's the car it's still an issue that should be fixed. Unless its haunted by an injector ghoul or something.
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      10-04-2015, 01:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thecastle
Quote:
Originally Posted by m9bm View Post
Just got an SES light. Car went in to the dealer for diagnosis.
They came back and said carbon build up.

2010 335d - 64xxx miles

I have the BMW gold warranty til 2017 or 100k.
They said they were not sure if BMW would cover this repair, and would get back to me today.

I think the general consensus is that this is covered, correct?

My only concern is that the dealer knows I had a JBD installed (it's currently removed, but the codes were not cleared because I was afraid of wiping the SES light away.)
Since this issue effects un modified cars, having a jbd shouldn't be a concern. Just contact someone who had a stock car with the same issue and get their invoice as proof that this is an endemic issue, that is if they hassle you.

The real question is if the gold warrenty covers cbu.
Im sorry to say JBD will only make things worse for CBU. Think about it. You're fooling the ECU into dumping more fuel to run richer which means more carbon passing through the EGR.

That's the reason I never ran it even tho I was given one for free.
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      10-04-2015, 03:07 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by GottaBeKD View Post
Im sorry to say JBD will only make things worse for CBU. Think about it. You're fooling the ECU into dumping more fuel to run richer which means more carbon passing through the EGR.

That's the reason I never ran it even tho I was given one for free.
It's likely true that JBD would speed up cbu, but not by much if at all. Most of the time the JBD is modifying the signal an appreciable amount the egr is closed anyway.
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      10-04-2015, 12:00 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hoooper
Quote:
Originally Posted by GottaBeKD View Post
Im sorry to say JBD will only make things worse for CBU. Think about it. You're fooling the ECU into dumping more fuel to run richer which means more carbon passing through the EGR.

That's the reason I never ran it even tho I was given one for free.
It's likely true that JBD would speed up cbu, but not by much if at all. Most of the time the JBD is modifying the signal an appreciable amount the egr is closed anyway.
The JBD from what I've seen in data plots by TDI and others in various threads the JBD does not discriminate based on RPM or load.
Since there is always more fuel the by product is always more particulate matter.
With a blocked EGR it's a no brainer to run a JBD and I would consider it for a little extra power if that's what I wanted.
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