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      11-01-2012, 11:49 PM   #1
skinrock
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Shuttering/stumbling on startup, seems to go away after warming up

Hey guys, I talked to Shiv about this - we are going to do some investigating tomorrow. But I need it fixed by next Thursday, so I wanted to bounce some ideas around, see if anyone has resolved this specific issue.

The past few days I started noticing rough idling on cold startups, along with a Service Engine Soon light. Didn't think too much of it, was running fine otherwise. The idle got progressively worse, to where it was just completely bogged down yesterday and didn't seem to go away. Pulled some codes, 10700, 10704, 10705. Being that they are misfires, we figured it was plugs or coils, and that was going to be our target. But what didn't make sense is that it ran fine otherwise and started up fine after a drive.

Today it threw a 10706, so now I'm starting to think it's an O2 sensor, being that it was cylinders 4-6. Started it up two more times, and it went away, idled fine, drove fine. Went to the store, came out about 20 minutes later and it started up fine, no Service Engine light.

I'm wondering if the O2 sensor would behave like this if it was going bad, that it only does it during the warm-up period. Shiv said maybe it's the "heater circuit", but I'm not familiar with that part.

Like I said, we will debug it in depth tomorrow, but I wanted to see if anyone experienced this behavior.
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      11-01-2012, 11:56 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Hey guys, I talked to Shiv about this - we are going to do some investigating tomorrow. But I need it fixed by next Thursday, so I wanted to bounce some ideas around, see if anyone has resolved this specific issue.

The past few days I started noticing rough idling on cold startups, along with a Service Engine Soon light. Didn't think too much of it, was running fine otherwise. The idle got progressively worse, to where it was just completely bogged down yesterday and didn't seem to go away. Pulled some codes, 10700, 10704, 10705. Being that they are misfires, we figured it was plugs or coils, and that was going to be our target. But what didn't make sense is that it ran fine otherwise and started up fine after a drive.

Today it threw a 10706, so now I'm starting to think it's an O2 sensor, being that it was cylinders 4-6. Started it up two more times, and it went away, idled fine, drove fine. Went to the store, came out about 20 minutes later and it started up fine, no Service Engine light.

I'm wondering if the O2 sensor would behave like this if it was going bad, that it only does it during the warm-up period. Shiv said maybe it's the "heater circuit", but I'm not familiar with that part.

Like I said, we will debug it in depth tomorrow, but I wanted to see if anyone experienced this behavior.
change your spark plugs unless they are BRAND new. thatll almost definately fix you fast and cheap
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      11-01-2012, 11:58 PM   #3
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change your spark plugs unless they are BRAND new. thatll almost definately fix you fast and cheap
They are new due to the single turbo install, but we are going to check the gaps.
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      11-02-2012, 12:31 AM   #4
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Not to scare you, but that's how mine seemed for a few weeks before an injector stuck wide open on a cold start and stayed there, filling my exhaust system with gas. Dealer just changed 3 injectors to fix it.
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      11-02-2012, 12:35 AM   #5
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Originally Posted by Carl Morris
Not to scare you, but that's how mine seemed for a few weeks before an injector stuck wide open on a cold start and stayed there, filling my exhaust system with gas. Dealer just changed 3 injectors to fix it.
I wouldn't mind if that's what it is to be honest. We replaced two injectors about a month ago, the other 4 were replaced last year as part of the recall. It's another thing we will check, but I obviously don't want to buy 4 if I don't have to.
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      11-02-2012, 01:14 AM   #6
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How does the intake tract look? Could be carbon'ed up.
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      11-02-2012, 01:22 AM   #7
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How does the intake tract look? Could be carbon'ed up.
Haven't looked. Was going to get walnut shell blasting done, but I've never heard of that causing issues like this.
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      11-02-2012, 01:55 AM   #8
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any E85? I have that issue sometimes on cold starts, but i'm running 50/50 93.
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      11-02-2012, 01:58 AM   #9
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any E85? I have that issue sometimes on cold starts, but i'm running 50/50 93.
Not anymore. Was running 50/50 to 60/40 before the single, but I'm sure it's gone by now. Was down to 19% when we dyno tuned the single, and I have filled up twice since then.
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      11-02-2012, 06:26 AM   #10
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      11-02-2012, 07:29 AM   #11
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Just had the same exact issue resolved by the dealer two weeks ago. Misfires on cylinder 1-3, rough idle on startup (almost dying at times), CEL, then run fine after warming up. Three injectors later and she is back to normal.

Good luck.

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      11-02-2012, 07:34 AM   #12
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Sounds like when I needed new injectors
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      11-02-2012, 08:17 AM   #13
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+1 Injectors.... Had the same issue two years ago. It will get worse the longer you wait.
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      11-02-2012, 08:22 AM   #14
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injectors or a bad precat 02, my car is currently bogging on cold start with an SES light and o2 codes (p2cab, p2ca7). havent gotten codes for misfires, but the car is not happy the first mile or so you drive it. Im taking the dci off tonight and dropping it off at the dealer tomorrow..well see.
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      11-02-2012, 08:31 AM   #15
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Sounds like 02 sensors to me tbh, rough idle on cold is what i got, rpms where hovering around.

Would always go away when it was warmed up, was running rich luckily so i still got all the power.
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      11-02-2012, 09:46 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by E93Blackhawk
Sounds like 02 sensors to me tbh, rough idle on cold is what i got, rpms where hovering around.

Would always go away when it was warmed up, was running rich luckily so i still got all the power.
yup, thats exactly what im experiencing, and id bet op is in the same boat. If it is the precat o2 (check codes, they should be isolated to the lambda o2) the good news is your car will be fine, and its a pretty simple fix for you or the dealer. Bad news is the dealer will rob you blind, i was quoted 7-800 to replace it yesterday, but they wont do warranty work until i remove my dci. A bit silly but oh well.
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      11-02-2012, 09:48 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Carl Morris View Post
Not to scare you, but that's how mine seemed for a few weeks before an injector stuck wide open on a cold start and stayed there, filling my exhaust system with gas. Dealer just changed 3 injectors to fix it.
Yup same here... few weeks before i went to cold start my car and the injector got stuck open...

Make sure when replacing the injectors to code them..
Remember not to touch the tip of the injector once the protective cap is removed, and remember once the protective tip is removed on the injector, to install the injector asap as the teflon seal on the injector can swell.
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      11-02-2012, 09:59 AM   #18
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Doubt it's the o2. On a cold start, the engine runs on an open loop and the precat o2's are cold so the engine runs rich on startup for a minute or so. Also if it were a heater circuit failure, generally the car with throw that specific code. Most likely an injector in that bank. Did you swap coil packs from bank 1 and bank 2 to see if the misfire moves? If you find that it is an o2 sensor, precat, I just returned a new one to the pepboys on industrial near fftec. It's the same bosch one as oem. So they will have it in stock. Good luck and us know the update.
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      11-02-2012, 10:47 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
Doubt it's the o2. On a cold start, the engine runs on an open loop and the precat o2's are cold so the engine runs rich on startup for a minute or so. Also if it were a heater circuit failure, generally the car with throw that specific code. Most likely an injector in that bank. Did you swap coil packs from bank 1 and bank 2 to see if the misfire moves? If you find that it is an o2 sensor, precat, I just returned a new one to the pepboys on industrial near fftec. It's the same bosch one as oem. So they will have it in stock. Good luck and us know the update.
Thanks for the info (to everyone else as well).

If we can't trace it down to anything else, we'll swap the coils to see if it moves. Should have some more details this afternoon.
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      11-02-2012, 11:32 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Not anymore. Was running 50/50 to 60/40 before the single, but I'm sure it's gone by now. Was down to 19% when we dyno tuned the single, and I have filled up twice since then.
Hopefully this is just coincidence, but mine happened after a few tanks of E85, and then about 2 tanks of 91.
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      11-02-2012, 11:39 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by skinrock View Post
Thanks for the info (to everyone else as well).

If we can't trace it down to anything else, we'll swap the coils to see if it moves. Should have some more details this afternoon.
Coils are SUPER easy, so you might want to swap those before you drive to FFTEC to see if the misfires move, at least you will have troubleshooted one thing before you even get there.

I am was also having bank 2 misfires, which could have been caused by my clogged stock DP's. I have a new set of injectors coming this week, and might have extras. Let me know if you need some.

Good Luck

OH and the Bosch sensor you will need is Bosch# 17098, the parts guys at Pepboys will know when you ask.
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      11-02-2012, 11:47 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by joec500 View Post
Coils are SUPER easy, so you might want to swap those before you drive to FFTEC to see if the misfires move, at least you will have troubleshooted one thing before you even get there.

I am was also having bank 2 misfires, which could have been caused by my clogged stock DP's. I have a new set of injectors coming this week, and might have extras. Let me know if you need some.

Good Luck

OH and the Bosch sensor you will need is Bosch# 17098, the parts guys at Pepboys will know when you ask.
Thanks again. I'll try to swap the coils, I guess I should just swap 4-6 with 1-3 at this point.
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