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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum > Unethical Vendor - BMS (Burger Motorsports bad review)



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      10-15-2012, 08:59 AM   #23
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BMS will never, ever get a single dollar out of me again. I get very angry hearing about stuff like this. Scumbags.
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      10-15-2012, 09:55 AM   #24
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Your design may not be patented but your product photos are copyrighted material. I would send a DMCA Takedown notice so that, at the very least, they are not able to use your photos to advertise "their" product.

I know it's not much of a resolution, but you do have a very clear-cut law on your side where the marketing photos are concerned. If you need help drafting the DMCA notice let me know. I have a lot of experience with these.

That said, I would consult an attorney to see if there is anything you can pursue (not sure if there is, since you don't have a patent, but it can't hurt to try and see where you stand officially). Really sorry to hear about this. I have purchased from BMS in the past and I did consider them a reputable place of business. I have zero tolerance for companies who act shady like this. Very unfortunate. I am hoping to see them chime in on this thread so we can hear all sides of the story.
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      10-15-2012, 10:18 AM   #25
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Pretty low on BMS's side.
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      10-15-2012, 10:19 AM   #26
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Wow that's really low.
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      10-15-2012, 10:20 AM   #27
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There is no excuse for something like this on BMS's part. I do not and will not give my business to company's that behave this unethically.

On a side note, I did buy my clutch stop from your ebay site and i can say that 18 months later it feels just as good as in felt on day 1. Fantastic design, awesome product! I'd highly recommend it to anyone looking for a clutch-stopper

Good luck getting what you deserve from BMS
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      10-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tres View Post
OP while I feel your pain and think bms was wrong for stealing your stuff. My question is was the clutch stop your idea/invention or did you see it somewhere else? If you indeed invented the clutch stop well kudos to you. Imagine how bmw feels with all the replica car parts being sold for cheap.
The concept of a clutch stop has been around for years. But yes, this particular easy to install clutch stop was invented by me. The only other clutch stop available at the time (that I was aware of) was one that you screw in. Folks hated that because the install was a pain. Which is why I came up with the concept of an easy intall one. I saw a problem and I addressed it. Also, mine is the first clutch stop for the E90 that was adjustable.

I was not happy but didn't complain when BMS came out with a similar design using the rubber washers because mine were metal. I figured it's different enough and I already knew mine was better because I had prototyped the rubber ones initially and found that wore out. That's why I switched to the metal ones. In any event they still shouldn't have used my install pictures.

Then when users realized that my design with the metal washers was better they go and copy it exact and use all of my pictures. That was the last straw.


And yes, I've already contacted them before I made this post. I felt the right thing to do was to tell them my concerns and give them a chance to stop. But they blew me off.

Thanks for the support guys!

BTW, thanks to the mods for allowing this thread to remain in the general section. I understand that it will be moved to the vendor feedback forum (where it belongs) in a few days.
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      10-15-2012, 10:35 AM   #29
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Disgusting move by BMS.
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      10-15-2012, 10:46 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlackE46
Hello, my name is Nelson and I’ve been an avid BMW enthusiast for many years now. A few years ago I saw that many E90 manual transmissions owners wanted an easy to install clutch stop for their vehicles. I was able to design and develop such a product after many months of R&D. I began to sell these clutch stops on eBay (ID: pickyeater334) as a hobby. I pride myself on selling a quality product and giving each customer the same service I would expect as a fellow BMW enthusiast. If you’ve dealt with me before, I thank you and I’m sure you can attest to both the quality of my design and to my prompt service.

BMS – not a BIMMERPOST sponsor, but a company I once considered “reputable” has stolen the pictures in my listing and called it their own. I assume they’ve copied my design exactly.

Here’s a link to my eBay listing:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/230519560074...84.m1555.l2649

Here’s a link to the BMS listing using my pictures:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/251167551669...84.m1423.l2649

The worse part of it is that, BMS had first made a copy cat clutch stop (and also stole my install pictures) a year ago and called my design inferior as part of their marketing campaign. But now they’re marketing my design as more “sturdy” and only selling it on eBay and undercutting me on price.

I think it’s crazy for a vendor to copy someone else’s product with something inferior and call it better. Then when customers realize that the original (designed by me) is in fact superior, they go ahead and copy it exact and now say what they’re selling is great. Is it all about $$$ and what they’re saying is all marketing BS?

Here’s a link to their first copy cat clutch stop by BMS:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/250989235114...84.m1423.l2649

It’s basically the same design as mine but they used rubber adjustment shims instead of metal. I’m sure many of you have purchased the BMS stopper and are happy with it and that’s great. After all it is based on my design. I’m not going to get into it here but if you search you’ll find that users do in fact find my design with the metal adjustment shims to be more solid feeling or complain that they didn’t feel much of a difference when they installed the BMS one. Many have switched over to my stopper after trying the BMS one for several months. I’ve been told they wish they knew about my original one first.

If BMS reads this and decides to delete or edit their listings, it’s ok because I’ve already archived those pages. To me it’s pretty shady business practice. I’ve already contacted them and expressed my concerns but they basically said so what and they had no knowledge of using my pictures.

The “right” thing to do would be for them to stop selling these clutch stops and stop using my pictures.
I just want my fellow enthusiasts to know the type of unethical behavior this particular vendor is capable of.

BMS is welcome to join in this thread to say they didn't copy my design and didn't have any knowledge of using my pictures as part of their promotional materials.
If I were you I would gather all my discovery material, organize the facts in chronological order, and file a libel lawsuit. This type of vendor conduct is inexcusable and unethical... Those $6 per unit can result into $60k or more if you can prove your case... You may also file for infringement if you patent, copyright or trademark the product in question...
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      10-15-2012, 10:54 AM   #31
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cant believe bms would do such a thing...kinda suprised and i have a bunch of bms products.

man this is gonna turn into another Buschur Racing vs Reese Tuning thing where Reese stole the battery tray from Buschur
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      10-15-2012, 11:02 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melloww22 View Post
If I were you I would gather all my discovery material, organize the facts in chronological order, and file a libel lawsuit. This type of vendor conduct is inexcusable and unethical... Those $6 per unit can result into $60k or more if you can prove your case... You may also file for infringement if you patent, copyright or trademark the product in question...
THIS. Also, in support I'm in for your clutch stop.
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      10-15-2012, 11:13 AM   #33
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With all due respect, I'm not surprised at all. BMS has built it's business by stealing other company's IC and and undercutting them. If Shiv were to go on a tirade about how BMS copied the Procede, i imagine it would read a lot like this.

I'm sorry this happened to you brother. Just so you know, I personally have not, and will never buy a BMS product for this reason. In fact, I'm going to order one of your clutch stops right now to show my solidarity.
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      10-15-2012, 11:41 AM   #34
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You really should seek legal advice, at the least he's stealing your intellectual property of the picture. Those things usually have some data imbedded in the file, so you could see if the image has your copyright data.

What douches. I've heard this before though
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      10-15-2012, 11:51 AM   #35
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Ouch, the good thing is that it isn't China ripping off your stuff or you'd be up the proverbial creek, sans paddle. Good luck!
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      10-15-2012, 12:08 PM   #36
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Since you have not patented the design and have rendered it public, its too late for patenting it now. Some would say it is sad, but there is nothing you can do for stopping copycats from replicating your design, now.

On the other hand, using your pictures is a clearcut case of copyright infringement. You can probably get something out of it (at least force them to stop using your pictures), but I would not expect much from legal actions. Seek legal advice, and maybe consider small courts.
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      10-15-2012, 12:09 PM   #37
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Best of luck
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      10-15-2012, 12:14 PM   #38
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for your invention and hard work. I dont have one but I will purchase one from ebay just to show my support for a small business





Quote:
Originally Posted by JetBlackE46 View Post
The concept of a clutch stop has been around for years. But yes, this particular easy to install clutch stop was invented by me. The only other clutch stop available at the time (that I was aware of) was one that you screw in. Folks hated that because the install was a pain. Which is why I came up with the concept of an easy intall one. I saw a problem and I addressed it. Also, mine is the first clutch stop for the E90 that was adjustable.

I was not happy but didn't complain when BMS came out with a similar design using the rubber washers because mine were metal. I figured it's different enough and I already knew mine was better because I had prototyped the rubber ones initially and found that wore out. That's why I switched to the metal ones. In any event they still shouldn't have used my install pictures.

Then when users realized that my design with the metal washers was better they go and copy it exact and use all of my pictures. That was the last straw.


And yes, I've already contacted them before I made this post. I felt the right thing to do was to tell them my concerns and give them a chance to stop. But they blew me off.

Thanks for the support guys!

BTW, thanks to the mods for allowing this thread to remain in the general section. I understand that it will be moved to the vendor feedback forum (where it belongs) in a few days.
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      10-15-2012, 12:21 PM   #39
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have you contacted ebay? they can make them take pics down at very least i would think
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      10-15-2012, 12:23 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melloww22 View Post
If I were you I would gather all my discovery material, organize the facts in chronological order, and file a libel lawsuit. This type of vendor conduct is inexcusable and unethical... Those $6 per unit can result into $60k or more if you can prove your case... You may also file for infringement if you patent, copyright or trademark the product in question...
"Libel?" While, clearly, BMS has behaved unethically, libel requires the intentional publication of a defamatory untruth (http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel). I don't see that here. At most, there's an infringement.
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      10-15-2012, 12:26 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by e90-328i View Post
have you contacted ebay? they can make them take pics down at very least i would think
The photos are hosted on BMS' server. As such, I would send a DMCA takedown notice to their hosting provider. They will, at the very least, remove the photos (or require that BMS removes them). They also have the power to pull the site completely, although I am not sure whether they'd do this for a few photos. I would go this route rather than contacting Ebay, as this would be the route that would cause the most headache for the infringing party. As a photographer and designer I have dealt with DMCA notices and infringement countless times, and hosting companies do not take this lightly, as it is a clear violation of their TOS.
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      10-15-2012, 12:29 PM   #42
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That's shady as hell. Good luck man! I have no idea how patents work but since its originally your product cant you still patent it?
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      10-15-2012, 12:34 PM   #43
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Send a message via AIM to be1ieve1111 Send a message via Yahoo to be1ieve1111 Send a message via Skype™ to be1ieve1111
subscribed. Waiting to hear from BMS
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      10-15-2012, 12:35 PM   #44
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Shame people/businesses will behave like that. Some call it enterpise, capitalizing on an unpatented idea, I call it weak....I bought one from you just now btw. Good luck

cheers
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