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      10-17-2012, 12:24 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingpanda View Post
I'm pretty happy with the Cobb unit. Easy to install/uninstall, read/clear codes, lots of useful data logging channels, and an obvious bump in performance. I don't have any dynos to prove this, but I think my timeslip tells the tale of how quick it is with just Cobb Stage 2+, downpipes, and intercooler on 93 octane:



I obviously have a lot of room to improve with that terrible 60ft on stock runcraps and high humidity/hot weather being in Florida.
What kind of boost are you running on the Cobb s2+;Has it been reliable for you?
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      10-17-2012, 12:42 PM   #24
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Guys, these responses have been awesome! Much appreciated!

I think I may start with the Cobb. I live in central jersey. Any one know of a good place to go if I decide to also invest in a protune? Cost?

Thanks!
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      10-17-2012, 12:43 PM   #25
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What kind of boost are you running?How long have you had the stge2+;Any reliability issues?Your !/4 mile times are very respectable!
Boost hits about 18psi in the midrange and tapers to about 13psi near redline. I have been running Cobb Stage 2+ since February of this year without any issues.

I'm certain I can run faster in better weather conditions, but can't find out until it cools down here in Florida.
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      10-17-2012, 12:54 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by Ragi Elias View Post
Guys, these responses have been awesome! Much appreciated!

I think I may start with the Cobb. I live in central jersey. Any one know of a good place to go if I decide to also invest in a protune? Cost?

Thanks!
A lot of us here have been going with PTF. They are very knowledgeable and I never saw a bad review. it's an e-tune and I believe price was 180$ for forum members (I'm not sure if that was an offer. regular is 200$), 80$ for every additional map if you need any. Let me know if you need more detail or suggestions.

do you have access to E85 btw?
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      10-17-2012, 12:55 PM   #27
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I have a JB4 and reccomend it to everybody. That said, here is my unbiased answer:

(1) Which is easiest to disable - although cobb is just software, i'm leaning toward the jb4 because it's just hardware. I take it out and there are no residual effects whatsoever. Its as if nothing was ever there. I am guessing that cobb has a "stock" mode, but that it's still not the car's original programming. Please correct me if I am wrong.

They are both very easy to disable. The question should be time it takes. You can use the JB4's steering wheel controls to instantly flip to the stock map (0) in 5 seconds. With the COBB, you must take the unit out and reflash the car. I believe this takes 2 minutes to do. If you are talking about a full uninstall for warranty work, the JB4 takes about 30 minutes to pull out of the ECU, while I believe the COBB takes around 20 minutes to flash back to your saved factory ROM. JB4 is very easy to install, but COBB obviously can be uninstalled from the driver's seat. Up to you. If you are doing a quick switch of maps, JB4 has it hands down, but if you are completely uninstalling both units, COBB has the edge.


(2) Which is smoother - I want the car to feel as if it came this way out of the factory.

Smoother power delivery? Let me start by saying there are 2 JB4 boards out there right now; the G4 and G5. The G5 will have smoother power delivery than the G4 and will feel just like stock. This is because the JB4 G5 has isolated boost control from the stock DME. With the COBB, the car feels just like stock. It's a flash tune so this is to be expected. COBB also has the added ability of changing your throttle mapping, so you can adjust how your car reacts to throttle input's. I believe there is a stock throttle, linear mapping (50% throttle is 50% power etc), and there may be one other one that I forget. Most perfer the stock mapping on COBB from what I hear.

Let me also state that while JB4 dousn't have a throttle mapping adjustment, there is a feature called "lagfix", which is changed via the PC interface. With the G5, I believe you can also adjust this from the steering wheel as of the new ISO firmware. This value changes how agressively the boost tips in when you press the throttle. If you increase this value (Stock is 80), you will feel more power with less throttle, and vice versa. So I would say that COBB is smoother than the JB4 G4, but COBB and the JB4 G5 are both smooth.



(3) Power gains - I believe on a stock engine, both of these will give me about equal gains. Please let me know if I am incorrect.

Power gains are very similar for both tunes.

On a stock motor, you should be running JB4's map 1 or map 5 (autotuning map, which automatically puts your car at the right performance level for your mods and conditions), or COBB's Stage 1 maps (Drive, Sport, or Agressive, which I believe agressive requires 93 octane premium). The COBB tune shines more than the JB4 or other piggyback tune when you are Pro-tuned. The JB4 shines when you want to use a blend of E85, to increase your performance quite a bit, regardless of bolt on's. On a stock car, you won't see any real power advantage with either tune, unless you are running a mix of E85 with JB4.


Honestly, you can't go wring with either tune because they both get the job done and are incredibly easy to use. I reccomend the JB4 because I have had no issues whatsoever with it, and am a big fan of the features it has (On the fly map switching via steering wheel buttons, gauge hijacking to show intake temps, boost, coolant temp, shift light, etc). I feel like for people who don't feel comfortable going into the ECU area AT ALL should go with the COBB, but to be honest it's really not that hard once you do it once. If you go the JB4 route, find a local member willing to help you out with the install, so you can be guided as you do it.
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      10-17-2012, 01:17 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ragingpanda View Post
Boost hits about 18psi in the midrange and tapers to about 13psi near redline. I have been running Cobb Stage 2+ since February of this year without any issues.

I'm certain I can run faster in better weather conditions, but can't find out until it cools down here in Florida.
I appreciate your help.guys!
Would I be able to run 18 psi on a e30 +91 craptane using a S1+ race map on an otherwise stock setup?
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      10-17-2012, 01:43 PM   #29
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Been running Jb4 for almost a month... Just like you, I'm STOCK, have DCIs but did not put them in yet. Installing the JB4 is a LOT easier than what it seems in the videos. Once you get used to it, it is cake, plus it makes you feel more comfortable with your car, familiarizing yourself with under the hood components and perhaps leading you to save more money by making yourself think, hmm maybe I'll "DIY" myself to future mods/ maintenance. I vote JB4 for price, and gauge features. I was in the same boat as you.. but then I thought to myself, How often will I be doing a warranty claim vs maintenance? Warranty Claim (only when something seems funny or going wrong) Oil change or maintenance (just switch to map 0 and clear codes). No issues on the car at all so far.

Overall, you won't lose with either tune.
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      10-17-2012, 01:53 PM   #30
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I appreciate your help.guys!
Would I be able to run 18 psi on a e30 +91 craptane using a S1+ race map on an otherwise stock setup?
You would for sure. E85 helps a lot. With said, it is recommended to have an intercooler for that map. The stock intercooler is really crap. You can get a 5" plug and play ETS. It will really help your top end. Much more worth it than DPs
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      10-17-2012, 01:58 PM   #31
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Funny thing. The quickest et. 335 in colorado is bone stock other than jb4+e85 and DCI. it is an xdrive that ran 12.7@106. We have a bunch of FBO cobb and piggie guys that trap almost 110mph but just bairly in the 12's (RWD).
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      10-17-2012, 02:50 PM   #32
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Here's an embarrassing question. What's E85?
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      10-17-2012, 02:53 PM   #33
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Ethanol made from corn. Burns at a different rate then gasoline. Provides cooling and higher octane for more boost / timing advance...
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      10-17-2012, 02:55 PM   #34
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Here's an embarrassing question. What's E85?
a third turbo we bolt on! nah im kidding, its race fuel.
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      10-17-2012, 02:57 PM   #35
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E stands for Ethanol and 85 is the percentage of Ethanol;The other 15% being gasoline.
In short,it is a blend of 85/15 Ethanol/gasoline
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      10-17-2012, 03:01 PM   #36
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Okay, so then to answer your question, I'm not going to start putting race fuel in the car. I just go with 93 all the time.
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      10-17-2012, 03:06 PM   #37
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Let me know if you have any questions. It can be hard to decipher the half truths, misconceptions and misunderstandings in threads like these.

I've had the car and experienced all tunes and products first hand.

We are also out of NJ.

Give me a shout if you need any help.
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      10-17-2012, 03:29 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ragi Elias View Post
Here's an embarrassing question. What's E85?
E85 is not race fuel. A lot of vehicles you see on the roads with flexfuel on the back use E85.

E85 means that there is 85% ethanol in the volume. The rest is regular fuel. The upside it burns slower and cooler and hence you can tune more aggressively with it. It is also relatively cheap (cheaper then premium here..). The downside you need more volume for the same energy so your fueling system will have to flow more, less mpgs...

You won't regret it. Look at my sig. My car is tuned for E50 (meaning a mix of regular gas and E85 to achieve ~50% ethanol content).
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      10-17-2012, 05:10 PM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
You would for sure. E85 helps a lot. With said, it is recommended to have an intercooler for that map. The stock intercooler is really crap. You can get a 5" plug and play ETS. It will really help your top end. Much more worth it than DPs
is it truly necessary to have a FMIC? I'm sure the car would run 100% for 1-2 WOT runs, just like the piggies do with the stock intercooler, and run fine with an E30-E60 (depending on car, I can run E60 with my OL value not maxed out (93 out of 100) and fuel trims still kept below 50%) blend without messing with fuel tables.
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      10-17-2012, 05:14 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
is it truly necessary to have a FMIC? I'm sure the car would run 100% for 1-2 WOT runs, just like the piggies do with the stock intercooler, and run fine with an E30-E60 (depending on car, I can run E60 with my OL value not maxed out (93 out of 100) and fuel trims still kept below 50%) blend without messing with fuel tables.
if he wants to run any non race map then yeah I agree for sure. no need to adjust fuel scalars, and anyway you don't really need more then E30 (with 91) to support that much timing.

Same goes for the intercooler, however on a hot day when it is already 90 outside, and you are sitting probably 20 above ambient in IATs, add a 30F increase in a third gear pull and you are pulling timing...

You have meth as well. That help keep IATs in check and adds fueling lowering your trims.
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      10-17-2012, 05:26 PM   #41
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Didnt want to start a new thread so thought i would ask here. just bought a JB4 off another member, he bought it in Feb 2012. Which board will it have?
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      10-17-2012, 05:26 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spool twice View Post
is it truly necessary to have a FMIC? I'm sure the car would run 100% for 1-2 WOT runs, just like the piggies do with the stock intercooler, and run fine with an E30-E60 (depending on car, I can run E60 with my OL value not maxed out (93 out of 100) and fuel trims still kept below 50%) blend without messing with fuel tables.
Stock intercooler is out of efficiency even for stock boost. FMIC is one of those mods that keeps on giving. Sure maybe a single gear pull you might have a good run but the next run's after will just be exponentially worse as you heat soak the intercooler. I'm not sure if its mentioned here but elsewhere it is mentioned and still holds true; FMIC is likely the better upgrade when thinking about downpipes VS intercooler. It not only makes power consistent pull to pull, but it reduces timing drop outs, run's lower combustion temps, lower EGT's, and provides much more efficient power which is better for your engine and turbo's.

Downpipes have their benefits too but I always recommend an FMIC before downpipes. (I know downpipes weren't mentioned in this context but I was just mentioning them as an aside).
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      10-17-2012, 06:02 PM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by marv85 View Post
if he wants to run any non race map then yeah I agree for sure. no need to adjust fuel scalars, and anyway you don't really need more then E30 (with 91) to support that much timing.

Same goes for the intercooler, however on a hot day when it is already 90 outside, and you are sitting probably 20 above ambient in IATs, add a 30F increase in a third gear pull and you are pulling timing...

You have meth as well. That help keep IATs in check and adds fueling lowering your trims.
Yes, meth does help, but I can run E60 without meth without maxing fuel trims. Meth brings my OL value to 60-65 and fuel trims close to 0 in the mid-range and creeping up slightly after 6k rpm, it's a wonderful thing
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      10-17-2012, 06:03 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Stock intercooler is out of efficiency even for stock boost. FMIC is one of those mods that keeps on giving. Sure maybe a single gear pull you might have a good run but the next run's after will just be exponentially worse as you heat soak the intercooler. I'm not sure if its mentioned here but elsewhere it is mentioned and still holds true; FMIC is likely the better upgrade when thinking about downpipes VS intercooler. It not only makes power consistent pull to pull, but it reduces timing drop outs, run's lower combustion temps, lower EGT's, and provides much more efficient power which is better for your engine and turbo's.

Downpipes have their benefits too but I always recommend an FMIC before downpipes. (I know downpipes weren't mentioned in this context but I was just mentioning them as an aside).
I agree with the FMIC before downpipes when modding as well.
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