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      10-21-2012, 11:33 AM   #1
phil200tdi
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335i vacuum hose replacement

Has anyone managed to replace all their vacuum hoses?

I can't get to the rear turbo! There is just no room! Do I need to take the dp's off and get at it from underneath?
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      10-21-2012, 12:58 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Has anyone managed to replace all their vacuum hoses?

I can't get to the rear turbo! There is just no room! Do I need to take the dp's off and get at it from underneath?
Only done the ones across the engine.

From looking at my old pictures from underneath then I don't think you can get to it from below unless you take off the DPs. Have you tried from up top? The US guys were able to adjust the rear WG from above, so you should be able to get to the hose from above. You may need to remove the scuttle board with the air filter to get enough space. The hose/nipple should point towards the top and be really close to the firewall. So get a mirror on a stick and see if you can get to it.

What's you plan with the front one? I would expect that one to be much harder to get to?
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      10-21-2012, 01:25 PM   #3
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Done front one, you can get your hand down there - just.. I have big hands too!

Rear one is hampered by the steering rack - not a problem in USA.
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      10-23-2012, 05:33 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Done front one, you can get your hand down there - just.. I have big hands too!

Rear one is hampered by the steering rack - not a problem in USA.
I had a look today and it does look very tight with the steering rack in the way. Heck even with a mirror on a stick it's hard to see the actuator. Any chance you can squeeze your hand down the back of the engine to reach it or do you have to be Mister Fantastic to get to it?

Are you still trying to fix your 30FF problem or did you get new turbos recently?

Note to self - change the hoses if I do any work on the turbos again.
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      10-24-2012, 04:18 AM   #5
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Indeed! Wish Darren woods had done this!

Yep still getting over boost codes. But have a vacuum gauge and am losing vacuum, one canister also needs replacing.

I can see that the rear turbo hose has had it - and where the problem is. I'm going to cut the old hose as far back as possible and join with a new hose. Hopefully this will resolve the issue, otherwise I'll replace the solenoids (not a big deal).
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      10-27-2012, 05:50 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Indeed! Wish Darren woods had done this!

Yep still getting over boost codes. But have a vacuum gauge and am losing vacuum, one canister also needs replacing.

I can see that the rear turbo hose has had it - and where the problem is. I'm going to cut the old hose as far back as possible and join with a new hose. Hopefully this will resolve the issue, otherwise I'll replace the solenoids (not a big deal).
Overboost codes, so that would be 30FE. Mine started to act up throwing this code on light throttle under load when cold. No issues when pushing it or when it's warm. This started to happen after a trackday at Bedford Autodrome. In addition my wastegates have started to rattle again, so not overly impressed about the durability of the actuators/turbos. If it gets worse I might use the excuse to get some RBs.

Where did you measure vacuum from and how quick are you loosing vacuum? I just replaced both of my pressure converters today to fix the 30FE error. There seems to be different views on whether this will help or not, but its something that I have wanted to try for a while. Boost control seems to be better and I have not seen any 30FE errors yet (fingers crossed).

I had a look at the vacuum from the canisters and both seemed to hold vacuum for a good couple of minutes with only minimal bleed off.

Inserting the vacuum gauge between the canisters and the pressure converters I measured 25-26 inHg with the engine idling. I then stopped the engine and measured the bleed off every minute.
1min - 23 inHg
2min - 21 inHg
3min - 19.5 inHg
4min - 17.5 inHg
5min - 16 inHg

I did the test on both canisters and the bleed off was pretty similar.

I also used a MityVac to have a look at the WG actuator arm in operation and it seemed to move freely, but the vacuum gauge wasn't very accurate and I couldn't confirm if it closed properly at 5.91 inHg. It was there and about, but I really need to do this with the downpipes off so it's possible to check if the penny flapper can rotate or not. That should also give access to adjust the rear actuator arm if necessary. If only I had a garage with a 2 post lift I could give it a go, but the weather is too crap now to even attempt this on axle stands.

Have you replaced the vacuum lines going across the engine yet? These are known to become frail on higher milage cars?
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      10-28-2012, 03:32 AM   #7
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Replaced all vacuum hoses except the rear turbo. I have cut this hose and joined it with new hose as a stop gap.

I'm using a vacuum gauge teed into the system after the boost solenoids. There is a good DIY on youtube done by terry@bms on how to test the vacuum system using the WG rattle fix feature.

Mine is loosing vacuum on light throttle, going to replace the solenoids on Wednesday... Sounds like you had the same problem!! Hope this fixes it...
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      10-28-2012, 06:21 PM   #8
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Funny, I had a 30FE on the last Cotswolds meet - think mine was down to a kink in the vacuum hose to the rear turbo thanks to the dealer routing it incorrectly when they replaced the turbos a few months ago...
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      10-29-2012, 11:09 AM   #9
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Phil.

Do you have a hand vacuum pump (not that sort ) with gauge? Essential for this kind of work IMO.

I bought this one from amazon http://www.amazon.co.uk/Gunson-77003...1526711&sr=8-2

Its got a pretty good 270deg gauge which is atmosphere to -1bar / 30inHg

If you can vac up the actuator and close the wastegate using the existing hose unplugged at the solenoid end, and it holds the vac, then the hose is ok and it saves you messing around.

I've used this pump to set my forge divertors (open at -300mbar to BMW idle spec) and check for leaks on the other systems.
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      10-29-2012, 11:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 335rocks View Post
I did the test on both canisters and the bleed off was pretty similar.

I also used a MityVac to have a look at the WG actuator arm in operation and it seemed to move freely, but the vacuum gauge wasn't very accurate and I couldn't confirm if it closed properly at 5.91 inHg.
I think both canisters are simply in parallel, so they will always be at the same vacuum?

Yep, right on the wastegate vacuum, the odd ball 5.91inHg is simply -0.2Bar in Euro speak.

Its not so critical that is is at exactly 200mbar, rather that both wastegates close at the SAME vacuum level because they are connected to the same vacuum line, so they must operate in near perfect unison.

Even 190 or 210 is only a +/-5% error which is as accurate enough for any garage, the DME / JB4 will adjust its duty cycle to reach the boost target.

If one closes late, then more vacuum will be needed to close them BOTH (giving underboost errors) or if one is sticky or slow to release, or closes too easily to you will get overboost errors.
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      10-29-2012, 11:29 AM   #11
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One of my cannisters was shot only holding 24hg rather than 26hg which it should hold at Idle. Replaced the dodgy one and the new one holds 26hg fine.

I have one of these:

http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B...ls_o02_s00_i00


Works great for following the Terry DIY mentionned earlier:

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      10-29-2012, 11:41 AM   #12
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So the WGrattle fix gives 100% duty cycle on overrun, in theory passing near full vacuum to the actuators pulling them as firmly shut as possible right?

What vac reading are you getting then or is it a sluggish change?

Also, how can the canister be faulty? Its just a plastic bottle isn't it?
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      10-29-2012, 01:32 PM   #13
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I thought it had a one-way valve in there.. Makes sense.

Mine is sitting at 12hg at idle. Erratic when revving. Holding revs it loses vacuum...
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      10-29-2012, 02:33 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
I've used this pump to set my forge divertors (open at -300mbar to BMW idle spec) and check for leaks on the other systems.
How did you adjust them? Did you just connect the pump to the DV niple and then check if they fully opened at -300mbar? And if it didn't adjust with the spacers?

Quote:
Originally Posted by doughboy View Post
I think both canisters are simply in parallel, so they will always be at the same vacuum?

Yep, right on the wastegate vacuum, the odd ball 5.91inHg is simply -0.2Bar in Euro speak.

Its not so critical that is is at exactly 200mbar, rather that both wastegates close at the SAME vacuum level because they are connected to the same vacuum line, so they must operate in near perfect unison.

Even 190 or 210 is only a +/-5% error which is as accurate enough for any garage, the DME / JB4 will adjust its duty cycle to reach the boost target.

If one closes late, then more vacuum will be needed to close them BOTH (giving underboost errors) or if one is sticky or slow to release, or closes too easily to you will get overboost errors.
In general the vacuum across the two canisters should be the same unless you have a leak in the lines or the canisters. In that case you may see a noticable difference in the measured vacuum.

I found this flow chart from TIS on how to troubleshoot this:
http://www.bmwtis.com/tsb/attachment...ost_Values.pdf
-or-
http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17214


So far everything is working fine and I haven't seen the 30FE code since replacing both pressure converters. As an added bonus, replacing the solenoids have actually fixed another issue I have been experiencing. The issue could best be described as jerky acceleration in 1st gear when applying 3/4 throttle. It would feel like the throttle position had been amplified by a factor 5x and as if I had stabbed the throttle, lifted off and then back on the throttle again. Now everything is smooth and throttle application feels like when it was new. I did suspect that a bad/lazy solenoid could be the cause behind this, but never got around to buy some new ones to try out. With the 30FE code I knew that there was a problem in that area, so knowing this I regret not replacing them sooner.
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      10-29-2012, 05:07 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
I thought it had a one-way valve in there.. Makes sense.

Mine is sitting at 12hg at idle. Erratic when revving. Holding revs it loses vacuum...
Not sure, when I took my vacuum bottles off to paint the rusty bracket they fix to, the bottles are the same and fit in opposite orientations (one upside down compared to the other) but they are not handed, i tried sucking / blowing in each end with no difference or resistance.

You say you've got 12inHg after the solenoids, what is it before the solenoids?, i.e. on the pump side?

Quote:
Originally Posted by 335rocks View Post
How did you adjust them? Did you just connect the pump to the DV niple and then check if they fully opened at -300mbar? And if it didn't adjust with the spacers?
.
Yep thats it. At first with the yellow springs and one spacer they were sticking until 600 or 700mbar.

After cleaning and greasing properly they started to open at just below 300.
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      10-30-2012, 02:50 AM   #16
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At idle:

Vacuum canister - solenoid = 26inhg

Solenoid -WG = 12inhg
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      10-30-2012, 04:05 AM   #17
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That seems good on the pump side.

So post solenoid, are you not getting a clean stable vacuum level step like in the video?
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      10-30-2012, 06:18 AM   #18
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No. Not stable and losing vacuum on a light throttle. I had thought that the WG fail safe for low vacuum was underboost, but not in my case!!

I'll try to get a video when I change the solenoids out tomorrow!
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      10-30-2012, 06:42 AM   #19
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It should be rock steady at idle on the solenoid side as that is a static state, WG closed, end of. So instability there does seem an issue.

It's tricky to know what duty cycle the DME is giving, so you don't know what vacuum to expect post-solenoids on anything other than idle or overrun.

Do you mean 'light throttle' when driving/under load?

If so, then a decreasing vac could be correct as the WGs will need to back off as a target is reached, like any closed loop control system it will constantly react and adjust to reach / maintain its targets.
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      11-01-2012, 04:35 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phil200tdi View Post
Mine is loosing vacuum on light throttle, going to replace the solenoids on Wednesday...
This might be a bit late for you now, but a few tips on how to replace these. I would suggest that you take a couple of photos of the area before you begin so you know how it goes back together again.

The space near the pressure converters is pretty tight so you may struggle to get a socket on nuts or pull the vacuum hoses off in-situe. You can create a bit more room by removing the vacuum cannisters and moving the coolant overflow tank.
  1. Unclip the vacuum hoses on the overflow tank.
  2. Undo the cannister closest to the engine with a 12mm socket. This will give you access to the two 10mm nuts holding the bracket at the bottom and the 10mm bolt on the side wall. You can then undo the 2nd canister from the bracket and remove the bracket completely.
  3. Remove the two 10mm bolts holding the overflow tank and pull straight up. It got a plastic pin at the bottom holding it in place. Now use a bungee cord to hold the overflow tank out of the way. Be careful with the sensor connection at the bottom.
  4. Undo the top 10mm nut completely from the pressure converter. The bottom one you can loosen so you can get enough space to pull converter out. Once out remove the bottom nut so you don't loose it down the engine bay.
  5. To get the hoses off, use a hairdryer or some heat to soften up the hoses and pull them off the nipples. I may be easier to undo the other end of the vacuum canister so you can pull straight up on them. Inspect the hoses for any damage or splits.
  6. Once fully free, replace with new pressure converter and reattach vacuum hoses. Screw the bottom nut onto the post a tighten it a little. Then slide the pressure converter in place and attach the top nut. Tighten both down.
  7. Repeat steps 4-6 for the other pressure converter.
  8. Put the overflow tank back into place and tighten down with the 2x 10mm bolts.
  9. Attach 2nd canister to bracket again and attach vacuum hose. Then tighten down two 10mm nuts at the bottom and attach then last canister. Tighten down the 10mm bolt to the side.
  10. Route vacuum hoses as before you started and make sure everything is clipped in.
Job done! Enjoy your work and fire up the car and check that everything is working.

Note: If you do drop any nuts or screws down the engine bay. After you stop swearing, jack up the right front and pop the wheel off. Much quicker than trying to remove the entire undertray. A magnet on a stick may also help.


No sign of the 30FE error on mine after replacing them and the new improved throttle response is great. Fingers crossed that it will sort your issue as well!
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      11-02-2012, 02:30 AM   #21
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Did this yesterday.

Just removed the coolant reservoir bolts and lifted the tank slightly to get at the front converter nuts. Your instructions would have made it slightly easier.

A quick tip to add to your instructions. It is worth laying something in the engine bay directly under where you are working to catch the nuts, bolts and sockets which inevitably get dropped. I use a large plastic bag. Thereby you lower the risk of losing these items to the bottom of the engine/under trays etc...

All in all its not a difficult job.

Car feels much better and is hitting boost targets properly rather than hugely overshooting. I'll need to do some logging and more runs, but hopefully it's now sorted.
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      03-07-2013, 02:22 AM   #22
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