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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Official VTT Stage 2/2+ Release Thread



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      07-15-2017, 03:02 PM   #1
Chris@VargasTurboTech
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Official VTT Stage 2/2+ Release Thread

Very happy to announce the New & Improved VTT Stage 2 and 2+ Turbos!

While our new Stage 2 and Stage 2+ turbos have been for sale for a little while, we thought we'd do an official post about them. Let's get into the details:

VTT Stage 2 and Stage 2+: Building on the past


Our original stage 2 and stage 2+ turbos were known for being work horses; even though they were released when tuning wasn't as advanced as it is today, we had excellent customer provided dynos from 550 whp daily drivers all the way up to 700 whp. Recognizing the stock exhaust manifold was a significant bottleneck, we released the GC family to alleviate those concerns; problem solved. As awesome as the GC's are, they aren't in everyone's budget. Our new Stage 2 and Stage 2+ offerings are the next step forward in output and tuning potential while remaining more wallet friendly. Read on to see what we've done.

They're all new

Not a used, reworked turbo, the new VTT Stage 2 and Stage 2+ offerings are brand new to you; they utilize a cast one piece N54 manifold (see below for why that's awesome) and our own custom compressor and turbine combinations. Core charge? Done. Want to keep your stock ones? Go ahead, throw them in a box and hold on to them if you want to ever return the car to stock and sell it. We don't use cores for these any more. Brand new product, less money out of your pocket. Win-win.

A better design starts in the manifold




All current stock frame turbo manifolds choke down to a very tight 1.25 diameter passageway before entering the turbo housing. We found this to be a significant bottleneck at about the 700 whp mark give or take a little, depending on how much you like tons of backpressure in your system. Not going to make 700 whp? It's still a problem; greater backpressure means your engine breaths less easily, making you have to run higher boost for a given power level. Our new Stage 2 and 2+ are new (did we mention new?), fully cast housings that open that diameter up from 1.24 to 1.30, which is a 5% increase in area. Not a huge difference, but they breath a little easier, which helps eliminate excessive back pressure.

Picking the Right Compressor




The stage 2 units have a very versatile and high flowing 16T compressor. The Stage 2+ utilize our own proprietary compressor that allows for a little extra airflow over the Stage 2 while keeping spool characteristics spot on for daily driving. Check out a closer view of the Stage 2 below:



Highly Efficient Turbines



Having a new fully cast manifold that outflows the stock variants won't do you a lot of good if you cram an old outdated turbine wheel in there. Both our Stage 2 and Stage 2+ utilize a 9 blade TD04L turbine modeled after the extremely efficient Garrett GT series turbines.

How to choose which one is right for you

It's very simple. If you want up to about 600 whp on a stock motor/head; choose the stage 2. If you want up to about 650 whp on a stock motor/head, we recommend Stage 2+. Have a peculiar situation or want our input? Email me and let's start a dialog about how you use the car, fuel, response needs, etc. and we'll get you squared away.

Stage 2+ Results:

As expected, these perform. Results shown below are on a stock motor, stock head, 100% E85, with peak boost being 26 psi per MHD, and closer to 24 psi actual (MHD reads high). Timing target was 9*. Note that this is down in power; puzzled we did a compression check and got these results from this lovely tired old motor that came to us with a slight miss during idle:


#1: 120 psi
#2: 165 psi
#3: 95 psi
#4: 160 psi
#5: 135 psi
#6: 160 psi


So you see this was not a healthy motor at all; cylinder 3 is down over 40%! So all in all, not bad. This is not indicative of the capability of the new 2+ turbos when properly set up and on a healthy motor; the turbos had a LOT left in them, but out of respect for the owner of the already-tired motor, we stopped trying to get more power.



To that end, the first Re-released Stage 2 owner (i.e. not the old stage 2 or 2+) that posts a results thread with legitimate dyno that's 600 whp or greater gets a $100 back from us as a tip of the hat. Same story for the re-released Stage 2+, except the power number to shoot for is 650 whp in order for us to give you $100 back. (Note: If you think you're the guy to do that, email me, chris@vargasturbo.com and I'll check it all out, make sure it's legit/you're the first, and get you the money!)


Intro Pricing/Group Buy:

Edit: Group buy pricing is now complete! Thank you to all who participated!

There is not a better deal on the N54 market for power per dollar, nor does anyone offer all new units at this time except VTT.


Lead Times:

We have parts in stock, right now as your eyes are reading these words, to build 15 sets. Those will ship within 2-3 weeks from order. For the last 10 GB sets looking at 30-day lead.

That's it! Enjoy, we're looking forward to seeing results for these out on the streets.

Chris

Last edited by Chris@VargasTurboTech; 07-31-2017 at 11:08 AM.
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      07-15-2017, 03:48 PM   #2
TEC
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Sounds like a great deal.
What's the warranty time on the turbos? Also, are there any special measure required to keep warranty in tact (updated pvc, certain weight or type oil, oil feed line filter, etc.)?
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      07-15-2017, 03:57 PM   #3
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What is different from the GC Lites and the VTT Stage 2+?
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      07-15-2017, 04:17 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEC View Post
Sounds like a great deal.
What's the warranty time on the turbos? Also, are there any special measure required to keep warranty in tact (updated pvc, certain weight or type oil, oil feed line filter, etc.)?
Warranty is 1 year. You have to install them correctly and do all the normal things that anyone OUGHT to do with a turbo replacement. I.e. change your oil when doing the install, prime the turbos before starting, use new gaskets, DO A BOOST LEAK CHECK BEFORE CRANKING THE BOOST UP, etc. etc. We recommend using a high quality oil and changing it every 3k. You don't have to change your oil feed/drain lines, but you do need to inspect them and make sure they're clear. This is, honestly, all common sense stuff. If you want to argue over things like the oil change interval... then having a 600+ whp car isn't for you. That said we work with all of our customers and in the event of issues, do our best to help them out. We love enthusiasts!
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      07-15-2017, 04:19 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pysical View Post
What is different from the GC Lites and the VTT Stage 2+?
GC lites have a 2 piece, fully cast manifold that flows even more. Additionally, the GC family step up to a TD04 center section. The new 2/2+ spool well and have low lag, but the GC lites are ridiculous. Ultimate power capability is similar between the lites and the 2+.

Chris
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      07-15-2017, 05:04 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
Warranty is 1 year. You have to install them correctly and do all the normal things that anyone OUGHT to do with a turbo replacement. I.e. change your oil when doing the install, prime the turbos before starting, use new gaskets, DO A BOOST LEAK CHECK BEFORE CRANKING THE BOOST UP, etc. etc. We recommend using a high quality oil and changing it every 3k. You don't have to change your oil feed/drain lines, but you do need to inspect them and make sure they're clear. This is, honestly, all common sense stuff. If you want to argue over things like the oil change interval... then having a 600+ whp car isn't for you. That said we work with all of our customers and in the event of issues, do our best to help them out. We love enthusiasts!
Okay making sure. I keep my car well maintained inside and about but I dealt with a vendor before on turbos that required you to put in an inline microfilter into the oil feed, use 10w-40 high phosphorous/zinc oil, and update pvc setup before they would consider warranting the turbo. Even after all all of this they gave customers a hard time when they failed. I don't want to go through that again.
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      07-15-2017, 05:16 PM   #7
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You should use a high zinc oil. We recommend Motul or Amsoil but there are lots of good ones... what do you use?
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      07-15-2017, 05:58 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
You should use a high zinc oil. We recommend Motul or Amsoil but there are lots of good ones... what do you use?
Rotella T6. Killer oil. My oil reports always come back great. Been using it for years and available all over.
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      07-16-2017, 04:06 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEC View Post
Rotella T6. Killer oil. My oil reports always come back great. Been using it for years and available all over.
Mobil 1 0W-40 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil European car formula.
Is this good oil to use?
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      07-16-2017, 04:15 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krommmy View Post
Mobil 1 0W-40 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil European car formula.
Is this good oil to use?
I'm not really a fan of 0 weight oil for these cars because they have a tendency to run hot. Mobil 1 synthetic is an okay choice. If you want to research the best oils check out Bob the oil guys website.
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      07-16-2017, 04:47 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEC View Post
I'm not really a fan of 0 weight oil for these cars because they have a tendency to run hot. Mobil 1 synthetic is an okay choice. If you want to research the best oils check out Bob the oil guys website.
Thanks.
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      07-16-2017, 01:34 PM   #12
Chris@VargasTurboTech
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TEC View Post
I'm not really a fan of 0 weight oil for these cars because they have a tendency to run hot. Mobil 1 synthetic is an okay choice. If you want to research the best oils check out Bob the oil guys website.
Just to make sure you understand. The 0W number there is its cold viscosity. That number is the oil viscosity when the oil is cold only. This means once the engine is warmed up, you go to the other number which is in this case is 40. Just want to make sure you understand that, as saying you do not recommend running a 0W oil with these cars because they run hot would be a statement that isn't really accurate.
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      07-16-2017, 04:05 PM   #13
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These look great! Unfortunately I just had your stage 1's installed in march, running smooth no issues, but down the road these would make a nice upgrade!
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      07-16-2017, 07:42 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
Just to make sure you understand. The 0W number there is its cold viscosity. That number is the oil viscosity when the oil is cold only. This means once the engine is warmed up, you go to the other number which is in this case is 40. Just want to make sure you understand that, as saying you do not recommend running a 0W oil with these cars because they run hot would be a statement that isn't really accurate.
I'm just going by my own previous experiences. For engines that run hot I don't like going with a 0w oil. I usually would recommend that you at least run a 5w oil especially for turbocharged engines that are daily driven. YMMV
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      07-17-2017, 12:52 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
You should use a high zinc oil. We recommend Motul or Amsoil but there are lots of good ones... what do you use?
Are the inlets silicon or aluminum?
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      07-17-2017, 10:41 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antoans4 View Post
Are the inlets silicon or aluminum?
Silicone inlets sir!
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      07-17-2017, 10:43 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krommmy View Post
Mobil 1 0W-40 Advanced Full Synthetic Motor Oil European car formula.
Is this good oil to use?
We used to run Mobil 1 until we found out that it's not the oil it used to be. Tony went to Amsoil and never went back. Plenty of good and often less expensive other choices out there. Amsoil, Motul, I haven't tried Rotella but lots of guys love it, etc etc.
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      07-17-2017, 10:44 AM   #18
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I may have doomed myself by talking about oil here. lol
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      07-17-2017, 10:48 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris@VargasTurboTech View Post
We used to run Mobil 1 until we found out that it's not the oil it used to be. Tony went to Amsoil and never went back. Plenty of good and often less expensive other choices out there. Amsoil, Motul, I haven't tried Rotella but lots of guys love it, etc etc.
Thanks - how much hp can you make with Stage 2+'s?
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      07-17-2017, 10:57 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by krommmy View Post
Thanks - how much hp can you make with Stage 2+'s?
We haven't had anyone max them out yet, but should be deep into the 6's.

We say up to about 600 whp, go stage 2's.
Up to about 650 whp, go stage 2+

If you're not as budget conscious, and are willing to pay extra for increase power capacity, flow, and responsiveness, the GC family is still superior. It's just that these can't be beat for the $.



Chris
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      07-17-2017, 09:51 PM   #21
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Looks very similar to what Doug(Frankenturbo) the n54 tuning wizard is working on. How does your offering differ? (besides wheels obviously)
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      07-17-2017, 10:52 PM   #22
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The 25 GB is already over
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