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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Increased battery discharge mystery...



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      01-30-2013, 08:14 AM   #23
Surly73
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip@bmpdesign View Post
Typically this is a result of a parasitic draw and could be related to something internal in the vehicle but not often. We have seen this several times before and it turns out to be an accessory plugged into a power port (cigarette lighter, etc).
All of the power ports in my Canadian 2007 328i seem to be only on when the ignition is on. I do leave a cig -> 2xUSB adapter plugged in in the armrest because this is the case.

Are you saying:

1/ That even though they appear off the car is letting some current through?
2/ some cars turn them off and others don't depending on manufacture date, options, or other mysterious factors?

Generally IBS is in place to determine if there's parasitic loss it is not expecting and shut stuff down. My dad's F10 was doing this because of a faulty electric parking brake module. It was drawing a couple mA extra when in "sleep" so the iDrive frequently popped a warning that devices were shut off due to extra current draw while the vehicle was parked.

My E90 has considerably less electronics than an F10, and doesn't have iDrive to pop up such long and descriptive messages, but tools like INPA if nothing else should be able to extract warnings like this.
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      01-30-2013, 08:16 AM   #24
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Originally Posted by mr_milo View Post
I have heard the car wake up several times but I think it was always unlocked and I walked into the garage with the key in my pocket. Walking near the car seemed to trigger the car to wake up. Don't know if the same would happen if it was locked.
For what it's worth, I don't have comfort access and if it's not locked I hear the car "doing stuff" all the time. CA would change things a bit, for sure.

What does your car sound like when it "wakes up"?
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      01-30-2013, 08:28 AM   #25
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I have an 07 I have CA I do not get a message of extra power draw but have gone through a battery in 10 months and wondering too if I have a draw/short somewhere.
The accessory theory is far fetched and pretty amateur to say, if any power was getting through you would have a light on whatever was plugged in on the cord.
I do notice this and something to ponder.....
Whenever I wash the car, I forget 9 out of 10 times, the keys in my pocket. Once the car gets wet, the doors start locking and unlocking and no buttons pressed... I do keep the keys in the house but in actuality it's about 10/15 feet with a wall in the way of the key and car.
So if it rains out, is my doors unlocking and locking or waking up and staying awake?


EDIT: I just moved the car out so the wife can get out of the driveway, after I shut the car off and got out, I started walking away and heard the locks LOCK. The car is wet from overnight drizzling. So the sensors on the door handle is wet, the car starts freaking out (doors locking or unlocking) when the remote is near it.

Last edited by MrQuickR1; 01-30-2013 at 08:37 AM.
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      01-30-2013, 09:41 AM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQuickR1 View Post
Whenever I wash the car, I forget 9 out of 10 times, the keys in my pocket. Once the car gets wet, the doors start locking and unlocking and no buttons pressed... I do keep the keys in the house but in actuality it's about 10/15 feet with a wall in the way of the key and car.
So if it rains out, is my doors unlocking and locking or waking up and staying awake?


EDIT: I just moved the car out so the wife can get out of the driveway, after I shut the car off and got out, I started walking away and heard the locks LOCK. The car is wet from overnight drizzling. So the sensors on the door handle is wet, the car starts freaking out (doors locking or unlocking) when the remote is near it.
My dad's F10 has CA. My experience with washing lock/unlocking isn't because the car is wet, it's because you're holding the hose nozzle and there's enough conduction through the water stream to make the car think you're touching the lock/unlock area of the handle. If you wore a big rubber glove it probably wouldn't do it, though I've never played around to confirm.

CA just seems to be a huge pain, IMO.
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      01-30-2013, 10:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
My dad's F10 has CA. My experience with washing lock/unlocking isn't because the car is wet, it's because you're holding the hose nozzle and there's enough conduction through the water stream to make the car think you're touching the lock/unlock area of the handle. If you wore a big rubber glove it probably wouldn't do it, though I've never played around to confirm.

CA just seems to be a huge pain, IMO.
Sounds reasonable, however I have washed with latex gloves on, not sure if that's a barrier enough or not but I have concluded the same thing as you.....CA is a big pain in the ass
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      01-30-2013, 11:02 AM   #28
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In the last year: Twice we have seen this as a result of aftermarket satellite radio devices. Three times we have seen this as a result of GPS systems plugged in and not turned off. Once we have seen this because of a short in the wiring of a light switch from where a customers knee smashed it in. In all 5 of the cases listed with accessory devices, the problem ended when the device was unplugged.

As far as I know, the control module will save the code for an irregular battery drain, but will not specify the source of the drain typically. Sometimes you can match up other behavior of the car that is recorded in the control module (parking lights left on for extended period of time, etc).

All types of vehicles were affected, from 528i to Z4 including 3 series and MINI Coopers. We have dozens of cars come in every month with comfort access, including my 335i, that do not have the parasitic power draw issues.
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      01-30-2013, 11:10 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrQuickR1 View Post
I have an 07 I have CA I do not get a message of extra power draw but have gone through a battery in 10 months and wondering too if I have a draw/short somewhere.
The accessory theory is far fetched and pretty amateur to say, if any power was getting through you would have a light on whatever was plugged in on the cord.
I do notice this and something to ponder.....
Whenever I wash the car, I forget 9 out of 10 times, the keys in my pocket. Once the car gets wet, the doors start locking and unlocking and no buttons pressed... I do keep the keys in the house but in actuality it's about 10/15 feet with a wall in the way of the key and car.
So if it rains out, is my doors unlocking and locking or waking up and staying awake?


EDIT: I just moved the car out so the wife can get out of the driveway, after I shut the car off and got out, I started walking away and heard the locks LOCK. The car is wet from overnight drizzling. So the sensors on the door handle is wet, the car starts freaking out (doors locking or unlocking) when the remote is near it.
When you replaced your battery are you sure you matched it up with the same type (all glass mat or lead core) as well as have your battery life reset?

Your car meters out current to the battery based on the age and type of battery installed. If you replaced your battery with a new one (let alone the wrong type) and didn't program that into your car then your new battery is being charged like your 4 or 5 year old battery (overcharged). Best case scenario if you don't program for the new battery is the car wears through batteries every year, worst case scenario it causes a trunk fire and havok with your vehicle electronics.
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      01-30-2013, 11:20 AM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
Well, then, the dealer who said that should fix it instead of just tell you that's the way it is.... Weird.
Totally agree

I don't have any accessories plugged in and the CAS was already replaced on my car because it was faulty from the factory...guess the new one is faulty too. Pain in the *ss
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      01-30-2013, 01:27 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip@bmpdesign View Post
When you replaced your battery are you sure you matched it up with the same type (all glass mat or lead core) as well as have your battery life reset?
Excellent point. There are legions of people posting in forums that they're "smarter" than all of the rest of us because they "realize" that it's just a money grab to code and register a battery change and it isn't really necessary.

As an aside, unfortunately I've found almost all of the howtos on doing this to be somewhat incomplete if you're changing capacity or between AGM and flooded technology.

You need to do all of:
  • Update the VO to match the new battery capacity and chemistry
  • Update the coding with the new capacity and chemistry
  • Register the new battery
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      01-30-2013, 07:45 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surly73 View Post
For what it's worth, I don't have comfort access and if it's not locked I hear the car "doing stuff" all the time. CA would change things a bit, for sure.

What does your car sound like when it "wakes up"?
Well it kind of sounds like a whirl (maybe some kind of pump) and a few clicking sounds. It's a very unique sounds for sure.

So I got my car back today and I can't say I'm very happy right now. At least three of my issues "could not be duplicated" but low and behold the issues are now gone. That's funny since I have a recording of the noises and have device history of things not working, yet they couldn't find a problem and now everything magically works fine and all the squeaks are gone.

But back on topic.... As for my battery warning issue, they said "found vehicle is not drive long distances, recommend trickle charger". ARE YOU F**CKEN KIDDING ME!!! Apparently driving 21 minutes for about 9.7 miles to and from work each day is not long enough for a BMW.

The only thing I can't quite understand is the following: "Performed Energy Diagnostic test found JBE has switched off terminal 30G 6 times due to low battery voltage, battery history shows that a stationary electrical load was left on the vehicle possible (telephone)". Therefore they charged my battery again since it was low but shows good. They just had my car after Christmas and charged the battery then. Now I'm having the problem again less than a month later????? There simply MUST be more to this!
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      01-30-2013, 09:21 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by phillip@bmpdesign View Post
When you replaced your battery are you sure you matched it up with the same type (all glass mat or lead core) as well as have your battery life reset?

Your car meters out current to the battery based on the age and type of battery installed. If you replaced your battery with a new one (let alone the wrong type) and didn't program that into your car then your new battery is being charged like your 4 or 5 year old battery (overcharged). Best case scenario if you don't program for the new battery is the car wears through batteries every year, worst case scenario it causes a trunk fire and havok with your vehicle electronics.
I did the cheapo route and instead of going to a BMW dealer for a BMW battery and pay to register it for an additional 80 dollars, I found an Indy to do it for 100 bucks cheaper. Thing is they use Interstate battery. Interstate is very good but now I am not so sure for BMW. I insisted they register the battery to the car. They claimed to have done that and is on the bill.
BMW told me you do not have to code a battery to a car unless it's the black battery. Just registering it is fine so the system knows it's new and doesn't over charge the battery.
My suspicions are the Interstate vs BMW battery. I am not sure of the entire specs of the OEM battery and I would bet the Interstate is not an exact duplicate. I had it in the dealer to check on things and one was on cold starts, the car just as it turned on from the crank it stumbled or clunked. They heard it and said all they could explain is it isn't a BMW battery. So maybe you and the dealer have a point? I don't care who is right, I just want to do it right. Being cheap costs a lot more later
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      01-30-2013, 09:36 PM   #34
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Just seen this thread. I have the same problem. Took it to the dealer couple months ago and the discharge came back like 2 weeks later. They said it due to short drive, which i was confused upon. Exactly how short does a short drive have to be? I use my car as a daily driver. Seems to be happening on many E93s. But Im going in for service in February. Maybe this time they can find the problem
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      01-30-2013, 11:02 PM   #35
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There is nothing magic about BMW batterys

There is nothing magic about BMW batterys
As long as you get one with as much capacity it will be fine.
Unfortunately these cars use a lot of battery power and may have been
under designed in this area. (mulitple processors and a electric water pump
F30 may be worse with electric steering assist, drop top still worse to get the roof up and down)
I think if you are not running on the highway once in awhile you are not
filling the battery back up. Just running the car in town may not be enough
to recharge. You need to get a battery tender if you fall into this
category or get a car that doesn't have this problem.
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      01-31-2013, 01:37 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ctuna View Post
I think if you are not running on the highway once in awhile you are not filling the battery back up. Just running the car in town may not be enough to recharge. You need to get a battery tender if you fall into this category or get a car that doesn't have this problem.
You bring up a good point and a question that begs to be asked.... "How short of a drive it too short?" Or "How long of a drive is long enough to avoid issues?" on a regular basis.

I REALLY wish I knew of this issue BEFORE I bought my car. I had the same commute for over 7 years. Over 5 years were done in my Audi A4 without issue, even with a 5+ year old battery. I got 1 year & 10 months with my brand new BMW before my comfort access didn't open my car and I got an excessive battery discharge warning. Took it to the Dealer, they charged it, and told me to lock the car (even in my garage). Then just 29 days later I get a low battery warning. Luckily it was already going back to the shop.

So just for kicks, I Google mapped my commute and it's 9.7 miles with a drive time of about 21 minutes, that include a 2.8 mile stretch of freeway (4 minutes). If this is too short of a drive, then what is it going to take to charge this car? Hell, I didn't buy a plug in EV car, I bought an in-line 6 cylinder that gets 18.3 mpg based on my commute above. Honestly, I expected more from a $55K car.
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      01-31-2013, 02:35 AM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw246 View Post
ok, thanks, dealers first fix was, leave the key in the car so it can charge... lol
Was it a bimmer dealer? lol
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