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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Back off boost during winter?



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      11-07-2012, 06:54 PM   #1
Quebequer
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Back off boost during winter?

Posted that one in the Canada subforums, but wanted to know if anyone has the same issue here.

Hi guys,
Temps are getting pretty low here, and I'm experiencing some timing drops issues. Mods are in signature, basicallely FBO+meth.
During summer, when temps were pretty high (25 celsius +), logs were looking very good with 45 to 50 meth add (17,3-17.8 psi, 91 oct, 70/30 meth mix).
Since its colder (more or less 0 celsius), I had to back off my meth add to 30 (15.8 psi) and even at 30, I have some timing drops on 4th gear logs.
I understand air is denser when colder, so it means more power. But would that mean we have to back down boost during winter because octane can't keep up? Any of you with the same issue? Anyone with an explanation?
Thanks a lot
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      11-07-2012, 07:20 PM   #2
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I usually remove my JB4 and DCI during winter. I drain all meth out from tank and disconnect kit so pump won't work.
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      11-07-2012, 08:19 PM   #3
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Did both past winters with JB4 and all mods in, but this will be the first one with meth. I like meth as it still makes a difference even with colder air, even at 30 add...
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      11-07-2012, 08:38 PM   #4
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i've noticed this when temps fall below 65 degrees here in FL, I get timing drops even running 15.5psi with E85+methanol
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      11-07-2012, 09:43 PM   #5
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Honestly, you should be able to add boost if anything. I think something else is up. I ran more boost in the winter and methanol even at your 0c or 32F. Only thing I noticed in those cold of a temps was i sometime through a CEL for low EGT's . Otherwise it ran fine. 18 PSI tapering to 15.5 by redline.
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      11-08-2012, 01:44 AM   #6
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Shwat.... My meth refuses to flow past half on the gauge at best (I'm concerned caus I have no idea why) and I hit 16.9 with just DCI. 91 octane also. I thought colder = better?

Also I thought with JB4s with newest software you could set additive as whatever and autotune watched over everything for you?

I think I need to go logging...
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      11-08-2012, 09:36 AM   #7
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a rather stupid(?) question: at what temperature is the point of diminishing returns for the car (FBO, E85, NO meth)? When is it "too cold" for the car?

i was driving the other day with temperatures around 37 degrees F, IATs around 50F, and the car felt great. Multiple WOT pulls yielded a high of 70F, which quickly dropped down again. No issues.
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      11-08-2012, 09:59 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by danniexi View Post
a rather stupid(?) question: at what temperature is the point of diminishing returns for the car (FBO, E85, NO meth)? When is it "too cold" for the car?

i was driving the other day with temperatures around 37 degrees F, IATs around 50F, and the car felt great. Multiple WOT pulls yielded a high of 70F, which quickly dropped down again. No issues.
I don't think it can be too cold, given that the oil temp and coolant are in normal operating range. Cooler outside temp will only means cooler IAT which is always better (denser air, more o2 molecules). True until you reach the limit of the fueling system (flow wise) but its not the point here.

I personally keep the same boost all year round (18psi mid range to 15psi at high rpm). And it gets pretty cold here (-40C in Jan / Feb). With xdrive its manageable (sort-of... haha)
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      11-08-2012, 11:18 AM   #9
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When is it "too cold" for the car?
When there's ice on the road
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      11-08-2012, 11:27 AM   #10
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When there's ice on the road
...

that's a very good point.
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      11-08-2012, 11:32 AM   #11
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aka, right now in the Northeast...

Otherwise Cold Air = Better for the car anyhow so as long as the engine temp is at a quality operation temp (200 F+), as long as the tires are gripping you're ready to roll
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      11-08-2012, 02:45 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalud View Post
I don't think it can be too cold, given that the oil temp and coolant are in normal operating range. Cooler outside temp will only means cooler IAT which is always better (denser air, more o2 molecules). True until you reach the limit of the fueling system (flow wise) but its not the point here.

I personally keep the same boost all year round (18psi mid range to 15psi at high rpm). And it gets pretty cold here (-40C in Jan / Feb). With xdrive its manageable (sort-of... haha)
So you don't back off boost at all? You don't see any timing drop? Sounds like something is not normal with my car..? Maybe plugs? They were changed 10k miles ago... I'm from my cellphone right now but I will post some logs from this summer and some recently done, you clearly see the difference.
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      11-08-2012, 02:48 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebequer View Post
So you don't back off boost at all? You don't see any timing drop? Sounds like something is not normal with my car..? Maybe plugs? They were changed 10k miles ago... I'm from my cellphone right now but I will post some logs from this summer and some recently done, you clearly see the difference.
I would certainly like to see those logs. But you have a very valid point, maintenance is key and it might just be something like your plugs... Cooler air, lower IAT: more power so more stress to those components, they have to be in good shape.
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      11-08-2012, 02:53 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Honestly, you should be able to add boost if anything. I think something else is up. I ran more boost in the winter and methanol even at your 0c or 32F. Only thing I noticed in those cold of a temps was i sometime through a CEL for low EGT's . Otherwise it ran fine. 18 PSI tapering to 15.5 by redline.
What do you think the problem could be? Plugs? Injectors? Coils? I don't get any codes unless one 29F2 in 4th gear one time.
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      11-08-2012, 03:52 PM   #15
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I noticed similar thing recently on a long trip and I wonder if it coincides with switch to winter gas formulas.
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      11-08-2012, 04:12 PM   #16
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im the worst person to post about this

but im running fbo meth during killington trips.

snow tires, tall ride height. zero fucks given.
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      11-08-2012, 04:36 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
aka, right now in the Northeast...

Otherwise Cold Air = Better for the car anyhow so as long as the engine temp is at a quality operation temp (200 F+), as long as the tires are gripping you're ready to roll
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kalud View Post
Cooler air, lower IAT: more power so more stress to those components, they have to be in good shape.
Quote:
Originally Posted by hemi to e90 View Post
im the worst person to post about this

but im running fbo meth during killington trips.

snow tires, tall ride height. zero fucks given.
that's what i figured. OP has another underlying issue.
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      11-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Quebequer View Post
What do you think the problem could be? Plugs? Injectors? Coils? I don't get any codes unless one 29F2 in 4th gear one time.
This thread might help you...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=709685

I would email Terry. Sounds like a software issue with the open loop fueling?
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      11-08-2012, 04:39 PM   #19
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higher pressures, very likely optimal timing changes. DME actually reduces load below like 50degF IAT iirc.
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      11-09-2012, 12:11 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
This thread might help you...
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=709685

I would email Terry. Sounds like a software issue with the open loop fueling?
Yes I emailed him about that, and he refered me to a thread on 29F2 codes. I read that I had to enter FUD=2 and set OL by myself. But this is not the main problem, I only got it once, cleared it and never came back.
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      11-09-2012, 12:22 PM   #21
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That is the type of log I'm getting now :
32F, 91 octane, 70/30 meth mix, only 30 add...
4th gear
Name:  110912_1217.jpg
Views: 152
Size:  46.9 KB

I don't find any from this summer as I just cleared a lot of non useful things on my computer, but with 45-50 add ans 75-80+F, there were absolutely no timing drop...
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      11-09-2012, 12:23 PM   #22
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Just out of curiosity were you running different firmware in the summer by any chance?
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