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      11-08-2012, 11:30 AM   #1
shaginwagon13
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Stock Brakes (Upgrade For Track)?

Hey guys,

The car has now officially been put inside storage for the winter months, so now I wanted to start on upgrading.

Next season I wanted to take the car to the track. Right now, spending $5,000+ for a BBK isn't something I want to do so what are the best options I have for beefing up my stock brake system?

This is what I was thinking:

1) Aftermarket OEM Replacement Rotors (Any suggestions?)
2) Brake Fluid (Leaning towards ATE Blue Race Brake fluid)
3) Brake Lines (Any suggestions?)
4) High Friction Pads (Leaning towards Cool Carbons)
5) Are there any good OEM replacement Calipers out there to buy?
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      11-08-2012, 12:27 PM   #2
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Wrong section
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      11-08-2012, 12:42 PM   #3
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Wrong section
Sorry.... Can a MOD please move me into the proper section.
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      11-08-2012, 12:46 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Hey guys,

The car has now officially been put inside storage for the winter months, so now I wanted to start on upgrading.

Next season I wanted to take the car to the track. Right now, spending $5,000+ for a BBK isn't something I want to do so what are the best options I have for beefing up my stock brake system?

This is what I was thinking:

1) Aftermarket OEM Replacement Rotors (Any suggestions?)
2) Brake Fluid (Leaning towards ATE Blue Race Brake fluid)
3) Brake Lines (Any suggestions?)
4) High Friction Pads (Leaning towards Cool Carbons)
5) Are there any good OEM replacement Calipers out there to buy?
A BBK is less than you think:
K-sport staring at $1,600
http://ksportusa.com/b2c/products.php?cat=1179
Stoptech Starting at 3K
http://www.turnermotorsport.com/p-14...-e9x-335i.aspx

1) Go with blanks, you can spend more money on brand rotors but that’s not really necessary
2) Motul RBF 600
3) Stoptech makes good lines so does techna-fit, I used both without any issues.
4) Hawk HPS for performance or Hawk ceramic for street use
5) nope


what are you trying to accomplish with your setup?
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      11-08-2012, 12:49 PM   #5
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1) Rotors not necessary.
2) Motul RBF or ATE Super Blue
3) Stoptech or Evolution Racewerks
4) Pads will depend on what you want out of them. There is always a trade off.
5) No

What flaws do you currently find in your OEM brake setup?
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      11-08-2012, 02:40 PM   #6
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Upgrade your pads, fluid & stainless steel lines.

No point in BBK unless you're legit, tracking the shit out of the car
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      11-08-2012, 04:30 PM   #7
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I went with a Turner Motorsport Upgrade kit, I am very pleased.
Got the Slotted TMS rotors, Hawk HPS pads, TMS Stainless braided lines, and ATE Type 200 fluid.
Brake feel is very linear and maximum brake force was noticeably improved.
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      11-08-2012, 07:24 PM   #8
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Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate the help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED View Post
what are you trying to accomplish with your setup?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
What flaws do you currently find in your OEM brake setup?
I have never tracked my car before and I really want to start next season. I am currently happy with my stock performance for everyday driving, but I heard the stock set-up fades fast under high heat conditions when you track the car. I don't mind spending the money for a big brake kit, but since I have never done it before, I wanted to give it a try to see if its really something I will enjoy doing before I invest the money. I figure upgrading my current OEM stuff is a good way to improve the brakes for a few track days until I can see if it is something I will be doing often.
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      11-08-2012, 07:32 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Thanks for all the help guys, I appreciate the help.





I have never tracked my car before and I really want to start next season. I am currently happy with my stock performance for everyday driving, but I heard the stock set-up fades fast under high heat conditions when you track the car. I don't mind spending the money for a big brake kit, but since I have never done it before, I wanted to give it a try to see if its really something I will enjoy doing before I invest the money. I figure upgrading my current OEM stuff is a good way to improve the brakes for a few track days until I can see if it is something I will be doing often.
I'm planning on going to the track for the 1st time with a friend of mine. The stock pads do suck and it doesn't break well once it heats up. I was thinking of just upgrading brake lines, fluid and changing to some aftermarket pads. That should be good.
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      11-08-2012, 07:44 PM   #10
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I run hawk ceramic
With Zimmerman cross drilled rotors
And motul, was good enough for me this year
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      11-08-2012, 09:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Hey guys,

The car has now officially been put inside storage for the winter months, so now I wanted to start on upgrading.

Next season I wanted to take the car to the track. Right now, spending $5,000+ for a BBK isn't something I want to do so what are the best options I have for beefing up my stock brake system?

This is what I was thinking:

1) Aftermarket OEM Replacement Rotors (Any suggestions?)
2) Brake Fluid (Leaning towards ATE Blue Race Brake fluid)
3) Brake Lines (Any suggestions?)
4) High Friction Pads (Leaning towards Cool Carbons)
5) Are there any good OEM replacement Calipers out there to buy?
I track my car and have started with just upgrading the pads to Hawk HPS. They did ok initially but as I got faster I noted that they seem to fade a bit. I also had upgraded to SS brake lines and Motul RBF 600. I think NO MATTER WHAT you need SS brake lines and Motul RBF 600 or equivalent fluid. Whatever fluid you choose make sure it has a high dry and as high as posible WET boilng point. This helps determine how much water the fluid can have in it before it begins to boil. The fluid builds up water with use and therefore this is an important determinant of adequate fluid. Most (>80%) of the people I have spoken to that track their cars frequently use Motul RBF 600. (This is including Corvette and Porsche guys). Also I have read some sacry stories of Hawk HPS pads fading REAL BAD when someone pushes the car. In fact there are some Porsche Club guys and Instructors actively trying to BAN these particular pads for the HPDE days. I heard and read about this on multiple sites!! So I chose to switch pads given that I was getting faster.

I chose Racing Brake's 2 piece slotted racing front and rear rotors. These are stock size which is plenty big for the track. I have come to the conclusion that a BBK is a waste of $$. These rotors are less and the replacement rings are less than the BBK ones and just as good if not beter quality. The quality of the rotor largely depends on the way the metal is used to create the rotor and the quality of the metal. The various patterns of slots and vents are mostly marketing as all quality rotors will suffice (ie Stoptech, Brembo, DBA, Racing Brake, AP Racing/Stillen, etc). We are not racing LeMans here... therefore I chose the cheapest replacement costs rotors. RB's are reportedly longer lasting rotors as well. RB recommends Hawk DTC pads to mate with their rotors but I have heard they are loud, dusty, and wear out relatively quickly (think higher consumable costs). Again I went with the least expensive replacement choice. For me this was Performance Friction. I chose PFC 08 pads. These are race pads that are made for 24hr endurance races...like Lemans. So again they should last longer than other pads. They have nothing but stellar reviews and cost is comparable to Hawks. They also do not dust as much. They do squeal but not at high speeds.

So how do they perform?...AMAZING!!! I do feel some shuddering as they took some time to bed but these brakes stop so fast that your head will hit the windshield when you stomp on the brakes. This is NO exaggeration!!!Absolutely ZERO FADE from first stop to last in a 30 min session. This is on stock calipers too. I am convinced that with this setup there is very little to gain by getting dedicated race quality calipers unless you are looking for slightly less weight.

That should answer all 5 questions. I was in the same boat as you and this was my conclusion after weeks of research.

Good Luck.
Drive Safe,

N54_Fan

Last edited by N54_Fan; 11-08-2012 at 09:54 PM.
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      11-08-2012, 11:36 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
I track my car and have started with just upgrading the pads to Hawk HPS. They did ok initially but as I got faster I noted that they seem to fade a bit. I also had upgraded to SS brake lines and Motul RBF 600. I think NO MATTER WHAT you need SS brake lines and Motul RBF 600 or equivalent fluid. Whatever fluid you choose make sure it has a high dry and as high as posible WET boilng point. This helps determine how much water the fluid can have in it before it begins to boil. The fluid builds up water with use and therefore this is an important determinant of adequate fluid. Most (>80%) of the people I have spoken to that track their cars frequently use Motul RBF 600. (This is including Corvette and Porsche guys). Also I have read some sacry stories of Hawk HPS pads fading REAL BAD when someone pushes the car. In fact there are some Porsche Club guys and Instructors actively trying to BAN these particular pads for the HPDE days. I heard and read about this on multiple sites!! So I chose to switch pads given that I was getting faster.

I chose Racing Brake's 2 piece slotted racing front and rear rotors. These are stock size which is plenty big for the track. I have come to the conclusion that a BBK is a waste of $$. These rotors are less and the replacement rings are less than the BBK ones and just as good if not beter quality. The quality of the rotor largely depends on the way the metal is used to create the rotor and the quality of the metal. The various patterns of slots and vents are mostly marketing as all quality rotors will suffice (ie Stoptech, Brembo, DBA, Racing Brake, AP Racing/Stillen, etc). We are not racing LeMans here... therefore I chose the cheapest replacement costs rotors. RB's are reportedly longer lasting rotors as well. RB recommends Hawk DTC pads to mate with their rotors but I have heard they are loud, dusty, and wear out relatively quickly (think higher consumable costs). Again I went with the least expensive replacement choice. For me this was Performance Friction. I chose PFC 08 pads. These are race pads that are made for 24hr endurance races...like Lemans. So again they should last longer than other pads. They have nothing but stellar reviews and cost is comparable to Hawks. They also do not dust as much. They do squeal but not at high speeds.

So how do they perform?...AMAZING!!! I do feel some shuddering as they took some time to bed but these brakes stop so fast that your head will hit the windshield when you stomp on the brakes. This is NO exaggeration!!!Absolutely ZERO FADE from first stop to last in a 30 min session. This is on stock calipers too. I am convinced that with this setup there is very little to gain by getting dedicated race quality calipers unless you are looking for slightly less weight.

That should answer all 5 questions. I was in the same boat as you and this was my conclusion after weeks of research.

Good Luck.
Drive Safe,

N54_Fan
Wow thank for the reply. That's exactly what I was looking for, some comparisons and recommendations for certain pads and rotors.

I'm going to look a little more into these RB rotors.
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      11-08-2012, 11:53 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
I track my car and have started with just upgrading the pads to Hawk HPS. They did ok initially but as I got faster I noted that they seem to fade a bit. I also had upgraded to SS brake lines and Motul RBF 600. I think NO MATTER WHAT you need SS brake lines and Motul RBF 600 or equivalent fluid. Whatever fluid you choose make sure it has a high dry and as high as posible WET boilng point. This helps determine how much water the fluid can have in it before it begins to boil. The fluid builds up water with use and therefore this is an important determinant of adequate fluid. Most (>80%) of the people I have spoken to that track their cars frequently use Motul RBF 600. (This is including Corvette and Porsche guys). Also I have read some sacry stories of Hawk HPS pads fading REAL BAD when someone pushes the car. In fact there are some Porsche Club guys and Instructors actively trying to BAN these particular pads for the HPDE days. I heard and read about this on multiple sites!! So I chose to switch pads given that I was getting faster.

I chose Racing Brake's 2 piece slotted racing front and rear rotors. These are stock size which is plenty big for the track. I have come to the conclusion that a BBK is a waste of $$. These rotors are less and the replacement rings are less than the BBK ones and just as good if not beter quality. The quality of the rotor largely depends on the way the metal is used to create the rotor and the quality of the metal. The various patterns of slots and vents are mostly marketing as all quality rotors will suffice (ie Stoptech, Brembo, DBA, Racing Brake, AP Racing/Stillen, etc). We are not racing LeMans here... therefore I chose the cheapest replacement costs rotors. RB's are reportedly longer lasting rotors as well. RB recommends Hawk DTC pads to mate with their rotors but I have heard they are loud, dusty, and wear out relatively quickly (think higher consumable costs). Again I went with the least expensive replacement choice. For me this was Performance Friction. I chose PFC 08 pads. These are race pads that are made for 24hr endurance races...like Lemans. So again they should last longer than other pads. They have nothing but stellar reviews and cost is comparable to Hawks. They also do not dust as much. They do squeal but not at high speeds.

So how do they perform?...AMAZING!!! I do feel some shuddering as they took some time to bed but these brakes stop so fast that your head will hit the windshield when you stomp on the brakes. This is NO exaggeration!!!Absolutely ZERO FADE from first stop to last in a 30 min session. This is on stock calipers too. I am convinced that with this setup there is very little to gain by getting dedicated race quality calipers unless you are looking for slightly less weight.

That should answer all 5 questions. I was in the same boat as you and this was my conclusion after weeks of research.

Good Luck.
Drive Safe,

N54_Fan
why not castrol srf?
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      11-09-2012, 12:03 AM   #14
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5X the cost for almost the same specifications.

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why not castrol srf?
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      11-09-2012, 12:33 AM   #15
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5X the cost for almost the same specifications.
Exactly,...Motul RBF 600 is about $17/ bottle. The RBF 660 has slightly better numbers but nearly 2x the cost.
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      11-09-2012, 08:07 AM   #16
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have you guys seen the wet boiling point of srf? nothing comes close to it.
I'm not trying to argue, just having a discussion.
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      11-09-2012, 08:26 AM   #17
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have you guys seen the wet boiling point of srf? nothing comes close to it.
I'm not trying to argue, just having a discussion.
At >$60 per bottle I would rather have the Motul (~$17/bottle) and change it more frequently.
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      11-09-2012, 08:28 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shaginwagon13 View Post
Wow thank for the reply. That's exactly what I was looking for, some comparisons and recommendations for certain pads and rotors.

I'm going to look a little more into these RB rotors.
WOW Thank you N54Fan!

That was a perfect write up.

Just out of curiousity. How is this setup from cold and for daily driving? Does it behave like stock? I do not want to lose my breaking when the discs and pads are cold.

Cheers
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      11-09-2012, 09:14 AM   #19
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Whatever lines you get, be sure they include the 2 rubber lines that go to the rear subframe. Most kits skip those 2.
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      11-09-2012, 09:21 AM   #20
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      11-09-2012, 09:25 AM   #21
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Castrol SRF is the racing brake fluid choice of just about any pro team, and you do not have to flush it as often as others due to its high wet boiling point. For people who run RBF600 on the street, I recommend changing fluid at least twice a year, more often as you do track events (usually a quick caliper bleed every event).
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      11-09-2012, 11:06 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by N54_Fan View Post
I chose Racing Brake's 2 piece slotted racing front and rear rotors. These are stock size which is plenty big for the track. I have come to the conclusion that a BBK is a waste of $$.
have you tried a BBK on your car to draw such a conclusion?
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