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      04-23-2013, 10:00 AM   #1
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Turbo failure?

So I have been doing a little bit of reading about people's turbos failing. I read that bmw acknowledged the problem, but how much of a problem is this really? I have a 2007 bmw 335i with 33k miles on it. Is this a common problem or just in rare cases?

I also read that bmw covers this up to 8 years or 82k miles. I have a 2007 with 33k miles, does that mean I'm good up til 82k miles or I just have another two years? I didn't know this problem even existed, I thought the turbos were very reliable, but not after reading this I'm a bit worried. Any feedback on this matter would be appreciated...
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      04-23-2013, 10:06 AM   #2
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It depends on driving style and preventative actions taken to extend the life. If you wait for your oil temps to get around 200+ before beating on it, the longevity will be increased quite a bit. Wastegate rattle is a big issue.
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      04-23-2013, 10:44 AM   #3
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you're covered until 8 years from original purchase or 82k miles, meaning whichever comes first. In your case 8 years will be your limiting variable
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      04-23-2013, 10:47 AM   #4
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What is this "watergate rattle". I do not beat my car by the way. I have no mods on it, I drive it very nicely, always let it warm up, will do oil every 5k miles. So is this turbo thing something I should not be worried about? Dopes it just basically happen in rare cases when people don't take care of their car properly?
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      04-23-2013, 10:48 AM   #5
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Also, how do I know if I have the latest software? If I don't have it, should I make sure I get it?
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      04-23-2013, 11:00 AM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis_pr0 View Post
Also, how do I know if I have the latest software? If I don't have it, should I make sure I get it?
Just answered that in your other thread dude
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      04-23-2013, 11:01 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tennis_pr0 View Post
What is this "watergate rattle". I do not beat my car by the way. I have no mods on it, I drive it very nicely, always let it warm up, will do oil every 5k miles. So is this turbo thing something I should not be worried about? Dopes it just basically happen in rare cases when people don't take care of their car properly?
wastegate rattle is when your wastegate rattles against the housing of teh turbo causing exactly like what it's called a metallic rattle. If you have rattle you'd know
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      04-23-2013, 11:55 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStang View Post
It depends on driving style and preventative actions taken to extend the life. If you wait for your oil temps to get around 200+ before beating on it, the longevity will be increased quite a bit. Wastegate rattle is a big issue.
Waiting for warm up makes no difference with modern synthetic oils. A mile or two and your good to go with clean oil. Wastgate failure has no relation to turbo temps. Oil warm up is only needed if you have a thick oil that needs to get hot to have sufficient flow. With a synthetic 5-30 or 0-40 you will not have any issues. Now if you are at 30ambiant and lower you will need some warm up time.
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      04-23-2013, 07:22 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Waiting for warm up makes no difference with modern synthetic oils. A mile or two and your good to go with clean oil. Wastgate failure has no relation to turbo temps. Oil warm up is only needed if you have a thick oil that needs to get hot to have sufficient flow. With a synthetic 5-30 or 0-40 you will not have any issues. Now if you are at 30ambiant and lower you will need some warm up time.

very well said. ppl don't really know about the qualities of high grade synthetic oils.
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      04-24-2013, 02:33 AM   #10
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Originally Posted by David1 View Post
Waiting for warm up makes no difference with modern synthetic oils. A mile or two and your good to go with clean oil. Wastgate failure has no relation to turbo temps. Oil warm up is only needed if you have a thick oil that needs to get hot to have sufficient flow. With a synthetic 5-30 or 0-40 you will not have any issues. Now if you are at 30ambiant and lower you will need some warm up time.
A mile or 2 is not always enough. You essentially want the oil to get to around 110F before pushing it, but not all oils behave the same way. Even at 110F, the flow rate through the turbo is still 5 to 7 times less than at full operating temp (220-240)

And a 0W oil does not necessarily change that. Castrol Syntec 0W30 is thicker at 100F than Valvoline conventional 10W30. When the oil is room temp or colder however, the Castrol is substantially thinner and pumps much better (like when the engine starts cold). Even though the 0W is much thinner, the flow rate through the turbocharger is not even close to acceptable below 70F unless you are using a 0W20 econ oil, which is not optimal at full temp.

If you have the capability to measure oil temp below the gauge in realtime, do so, and see how long it actually takes to hit 110F with easy driving (under 3K, half throttle or less) from a cold engine, it will be different for a given ambient temp, and for different oils with different friction modifiers, and fuel octane levels, and intercooler sizes, etc... but not by much.

As someone who is just beginning to see temps above freezing for the first time in months, I can say it takes almost 10 mins of driving for the oil temp to hit 160 and move the needle, and that is my signal that I can now rev higher and push the pedal harder (I cant afford to buy replacement turbos..)
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      04-24-2013, 06:56 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillionPa View Post
A mile or 2 is not always enough. You essentially want the oil to get to around 110F before pushing it, but not all oils behave the same way. Even at 110F, the flow rate through the turbo is still 5 to 7 times less than at full operating temp (220-240)

And a 0W oil does not necessarily change that. Castrol Syntec 0W30 is thicker at 100F than Valvoline conventional 10W30. When the oil is room temp or colder however, the Castrol is substantially thinner and pumps much better (like when the engine starts cold). Even though the 0W is much thinner, the flow rate through the turbocharger is not even close to acceptable below 70F unless you are using a 0W20 econ oil, which is not optimal at full temp.

If you have the capability to measure oil temp below the gauge in realtime, do so, and see how long it actually takes to hit 110F with easy driving (under 3K, half throttle or less) from a cold engine, it will be different for a given ambient temp, and for different oils with different friction modifiers, and fuel octane levels, and intercooler sizes, etc... but not by much.

As someone who is just beginning to see temps above freezing for the first time in months, I can say it takes almost 10 mins of driving for the oil temp to hit 160 and move the needle, and that is my signal that I can now rev higher and push the pedal harder (I cant afford to buy replacement turbos..)
The Cobb AP monitors oil temps. I warm up my car by putting it in D (6AT) and keeping revs under 3K until the oil temp hits 180+.
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      04-24-2013, 10:21 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JStang View Post
The Cobb AP monitors oil temps. I warm up my car by putting it in D (6AT) and keeping revs under 3K until the oil temp hits 180+.
same here, I make sure not to boost before the oil warms up..

I think it is better to longevity to wait for the oil to warm up. with that said, I won't necessarily waste my time arguing either way because no one has an answer backed up by trial data...

hence, I think waiting for the car to warm up is not a bad idea. and hey if it turns out that it doesn't matter, then I would have saved some gas and wear in waiting
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      04-24-2013, 02:45 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BillionPa View Post
A mile or 2 is not always enough. You essentially want the oil to get to around 110F before pushing it, but not all oils behave the same way. Even at 110F, the flow rate through the turbo is still 5 to 7 times less than at full operating temp (220-240)

And a 0W oil does not necessarily change that. Castrol Syntec 0W30 is thicker at 100F than Valvoline conventional 10W30. When the oil is room temp or colder however, the Castrol is substantially thinner and pumps much better (like when the engine starts cold). Even though the 0W is much thinner, the flow rate through the turbocharger is not even close to acceptable below 70F unless you are using a 0W20 econ oil, which is not optimal at full temp.

If you have the capability to measure oil temp below the gauge in realtime, do so, and see how long it actually takes to hit 110F with easy driving (under 3K, half throttle or less) from a cold engine, it will be different for a given ambient temp, and for different oils with different friction modifiers, and fuel octane levels, and intercooler sizes, etc... but not by much.

As someone who is just beginning to see temps above freezing for the first time in months, I can say it takes almost 10 mins of driving for the oil temp to hit 160 and move the needle, and that is my signal that I can now rev higher and push the pedal harder (I cant afford to buy replacement turbos..)


its not always about the flow rate. when the oil is cooler it can absorb more heat from the turbos at any given time, at 240 degress the oil has to flow faster to dissipate more heat as it can absorb less heat now.
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      04-24-2013, 03:19 PM   #14
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Get inpa, with it you can see the date of all modules software update. Before you ask where to get it and how to use it so search here.
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      04-24-2013, 03:27 PM   #15
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There is no way to know if anything you do makes a difference in longevity of a given system.

Hotter oil is not better oil, Modern multi weight synthetic oil performs within a very tight range from the lows to the highs in temperature fluctuation.
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      04-24-2013, 09:48 PM   #16
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I have 113,000 miles on my 07 335xi it has been tuned since 56,000 miles and full bolt ons running an pretty aggressive e85 tune for the past 15,000. Some mornings I let it warm up, other mornings I am running late for work.. Still on my original set of turbos.
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