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      09-18-2012, 04:11 PM   #1
rismo
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Considering JRZ RS1 shocks

Hi Guys,

I'm in the process of building a new car as my old one is wrecked.

On my former car I had:

M-Sport suspension (EU)
Drexler LSD
All M3 parts and bits
265\235\19 wheels

I was happy with the ride height, also comfort was good, the car was quite predictable but somehow I had the feeling it was not perfect yet.

My car is a DD and get's tracked like 5-10 times a year on a racetrack.

For that I'm considering the following setup:


M-Sport suspension (EU)
Drexler LSD
All M3 parts and bits
265\235\19 wheels (Plus a spare 17 or 18 inch for the racetrack)
JRZ Shocks RS1 http://www.jrzsuspension.com/products/rs-line/rs1.html

JRZ opted for Eibach springs... this will lower the car, which is not my prefered estetical route, but performance before looks up to certain level....

What is the expert opinion on this forum?

- JRZ for DD and now and then tracking?
- Keep the M-Sport Springs or Eibach?

Thanks a lot!
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      09-18-2012, 05:01 PM   #2
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Talk to CJ421 if you really want those JRZ dampers. I'd go with stiffer springs that have a linear rate: Eibach or ACS by Eibach.
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      09-18-2012, 07:24 PM   #3
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Thanks for the plug cvc

I've been meaning to do a more thorough review of the RS1 but just switched tyres which I need to get used to.

rismo, if you like the stock ride height of the car then you'll want the fixed height RS1 damper. The height-adjustable one's max height is noticeably below stock. I have the fixed height one, with AC Schnitzer M3 springs (made by Eibach, though I do not know the rates because ACS keeps them 'secret'), full M3 suspension, Quaife LSD, Rogue toe arms, Ground Control M3 camber plates and Powergrid sway bar end-links plus track alignment. I run Michelin PSS on the street (19" wheels, 235F/265R).

The progressive springs I have are ideal for street and track dual use. I forgot to turn down my RS1's from full stiffness yesterday and it's no big deal, still comfortable. I may switch to a stiffer spring in the future with a linear rate as the ACS springs are on the soft side. The JRZ damper is unique in that, because it is high gas pressure and has a large piston rod, has a certain amount of spring rate built-in. Therefore you can run a slightly lower spring rate and still get the benefit of something a bit higher. The RS1 is an example of a damper run in classes of race cars that restrict spring rates - it's all about the damper. The gas pressure is adjustable so you can change how powerful they are just by adjusting that.

The guy who founded JRZ is the one who pioneered modern damper technology. I read his book and I don't think there is a 'better' damper technology out there for any quantifiable amount of money. The way JRZ approaches damper technology goes against what a lot of race teams think and after using them ... JRZ is right.
Everyone who has ridden in my car has said "there is something different here" even on the street. I have had several professional drivers take my car out on the track and critique it and have yet to receive anything but good comments... and I am rather pointed when asking questions about its setup. If there was something this car needed suspension-wise (other than going with slightly stiffer spring rates), I am sure I would have heard about it by now.

PM me if you need a hookup for the RS1s, I can put you in contact with a race shop that can give you more advice than I can (VAC Motorsports ... second to none). JRZ isn't the only one to consider - also look at Nitron and their R1 kit. I had a ride in a Nitron-equipped car around the track and it was good stuff.

Edit - here's what the ride height looks like:
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      09-18-2012, 07:49 PM   #4
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Hi CJ421,

Thanks a lot for your extensive reply. Your ride height looks very nice, I think 19' would still allow some clearance.
My current setup is I believe progressive, JRZ actually adviced me to go with linear springs... I'm not so sure as I never really have driven extensive witj linear springs as far as I know.

I'm in the lucky circumstance to live in Holland and I have been in touch with JRZ, besides the superior technology approach I appreciate the fact to have them relatively close to my house. In case of issues or questions, this might be of a big value....


That is for me a big pro...
JRZ actually came up with an offer of the RS1 in combination with Eibach springs for a fair amount, they stated that the ACS are stiffer... maybe to stiff for DD... I'm used to the M3 suspension and M-Sport and I would call that comfortable and mild up to medium stiff with no so much road "feeling" .... offcourse quite more suspension then BMW standard suspension. But I would not mind a slight tight more in touch with the road.

Based on your input I think I might consider to start with the fixed ones on my current M-Sport springs (Bilsteins?)....
From there I can step by step add additional parts like chamber plates, springs etc...

Would that make sence to your opinion?
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Last edited by rismo; 09-18-2012 at 07:55 PM.
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      09-18-2012, 07:57 PM   #5
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You're welcome. I am so jealous you're next to JRZ ... what I would give to be within a stone's throw.

It makes sense to do the dampers, springs, and camber plates all at once. The stock springs are just not stiff enough with a powerful aftermarket damper, the suspension wouldn't be optimized. It would perform better than stock but will not optimal or close to it. IMO, you will not be able to take advantage of the RS1 without appropriately matched springs. I will of course defer to JRZ's opinion but consider this - when changing dampers, springs, and camber plates, they require alignment. Doing it all at once is more economical.

If you're going to do the M3 lower rear camber links, you'll need to tell JRZ that as the damper is different (M3 style attachment). See here,



I think the M3 links are worth it as it eliminates the rubber saddle aka deflection. More solid feel.

When are you planning to get the LSD?
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      09-18-2012, 08:14 PM   #6
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Thanks for your advice! I will then ask a quote for chamber plates, RS1 and the Eibach's...Drexler is also close my location.... ghe ghe so the LSD will be a Drexler.

I'm actually planning to do everything at once. I bought a new 335 after my first one was wrecked in an accident.

I will do FBO+RB's+Meth and the complete M3 suspensions including LSD, EBC yellow pads, PSS 235/265/19(I know 19 is not good) and a M + bodykit + PPK radiator for cooling optimisation.

Does this imply that your have to replace your shocks when you install m3 parts? Last time I cannot remember that I had to replace them. But good point, JRZ already mentioned something similar but now it is clear.

Sounds like a ideal setup, altough I could not find the fixed height system on their site. Only single, double etc adjustables.... And yes Alignment should be done after each adjustment so doing it at once makes sence.
What route did you go with your alignment? Mine has to be conservative enough for DD to not eat to much tyre :-) ....
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      09-18-2012, 08:31 PM   #7
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Changing the dampers/springs does not require installing M3 parts, but as I noted if you want to use the M3 lower rear camber link, then the damper must fit it. A 335 damper will not fit it.Therefore if you do the M3 link, then you must do dampers at the same time.

Ask about fixed height, I had to. I imagine the fixed height RS1 is not all that popular since most want to change the ride height. I think these cars work best at stock ride height since that is what the suspension travel was designed around.

Where will you get these parts installed, can JRZ do it for you? I am running -1.6 degree camber front and -1.9 deg rear. Toe wears tires more than camber, BMW stock specs are slight toe-in on the front. I went with zero which provides excellent stability around the track and as an added bonus, the least wear on the street.

Regarding springs, I am sure you saw Mike's post but I will quote it here for reference:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike@VAC View Post
We like to run Eibach ERS springs with all JRZ kits. JRZ uses Eibach, we use Eibach. Rates vary on your goals of course. No need to come up with a marketing gimmick.

We have a bunch of E8/9X RS1 kits on the street now, mostly height adjustable variants. Everyone seems to agree with Charles - AMAZING.

We have RS, RS Pro and 3 way race on various VAC cars - the product like is out of this world.
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      09-19-2012, 11:47 AM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ421
Thanks for the plug cvc

I've been meaning to do a more thorough review of the RS1 but just switched tyres which I need to get used to.

rismo, if you like the stock ride height of the car then you'll want the fixed height RS1 damper. The height-adjustable one's max height is noticeably below stock. I have the fixed height one, with AC Schnitzer M3 springs (made by Eibach, though I do not know the rates because ACS keeps them 'secret'), full M3 suspension, Quaife LSD, Rogue toe arms, Ground Control M3 camber plates and Powergrid sway bar end-links plus track alignment. I run Michelin PSS on the street (19" wheels, 235F/265R).

The progressive springs I have are ideal for street and track dual use. I forgot to turn down my RS1's from full stiffness yesterday and it's no big deal, still comfortable. I may switch to a stiffer spring in the future with a linear rate as the ACS springs are on the soft side. The JRZ damper is unique in that, because it is high gas pressure and has a large piston rod, has a certain amount of spring rate built-in. Therefore you can run a slightly lower spring rate and still get the benefit of something a bit higher. The RS1 is an example of a damper run in classes of race cars that restrict spring rates - it's all about the damper. The gas pressure is adjustable so you can change how powerful they are just by adjusting that.

The guy who founded JRZ is the one who pioneered modern damper technology. I read his book and I don't think there is a 'better' damper technology out there for any quantifiable amount of money. The way JRZ approaches damper technology goes against what a lot of race teams think and after using them ... JRZ is right.
Everyone who has ridden in my car has said "there is something different here" even on the street. I have had several professional drivers take my car out on the track and critique it and have yet to receive anything but good comments... and I am rather pointed when asking questions about its setup. If there was something this car needed suspension-wise (other than going with slightly stiffer spring rates), I am sure I would have heard about it by now.

PM me if you need a hookup for the RS1s, I can put you in contact with a race shop that can give you more advice than I can (VAC Motorsports ... second to none). JRZ isn't the only one to consider - also look at Nitron and their R1 kit. I had a ride in a Nitron-equipped car around the track and it was good stuff.

Edit - here's what the ride height looks like:
Those ACS springs have a progressive rate instead of linear?

Rizmo: I'd ask JRZ for a fixed height damper with linear rate springs. Also ask if their 335i rear shocks are available w/a solid lower mount to remove the rubber saddle in the oe camber link. If not then consider the M3 rear shocks and camber arms. It'd be a shame to spend all that money and retain the oe lower rear shock mount imo.
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      09-19-2012, 01:07 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cvc 22349a View Post
Those ACS springs have a progressive rate instead of linear?

Rizmo: I'd ask JRZ for a fixed height damper with linear rate springs. Also ask if their 335i rear shocks are available w/a solid lower mount to remove the rubber saddle in the oe camber link. If not then consider the M3 rear shocks and camber arms. It'd be a shame to spend all that money and retain the oe lower rear shock mount imo.
Yes - AC Schnitzer M3 springs, progressive:
http://store.vacmotorsports.com/ac-s...set-p2731.aspx
Perhaps they are a bit stiff as JRZ says next to other offerings, but I have been told they are on the softer side/not aggressive (albeit, from race car mechanics and drivers). I also have the M3 sway bars front/rear. I can't complain about how the setup responds to my inputs.

Compared to the stock suspension on my E92, my current setup is more comfortable with a smoother ride despite being far more powerful. The damping is much better controlled, especially compression; the stock dampers are under-damped everywhere, most noticeably in compression.

I agree fully with cvc that the rear lower shock mount (which I referred to as the lower rear camber link) is worth replacing with the M3 one. That requires the use of an M3 style rear damper but you'll save unsprung weight and get rid of deflection.
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      09-19-2012, 05:53 PM   #10
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So reading your statement:

Compared to the stock suspension on my E92, my current setup is more comfortable with a smoother ride despite being far more powerful. The damping is much better controlled, especially compression; the stock dampers are under-damped everywhere, most noticeably in compression.

You actualy state: Better overall ride quality, better comfort due to better spring technology? and on the same moment more control?

How did it change your braking? Did it affect the controlabilty of the car during hard stop before cornering?
I hope we are on the same page of describing comfort, I'm a litte bit worried to spend such an amount while not beeing completly sure if it will be still acceptable for daily business driving.

But from what I read it seems to be very well... Then linear vs progressive and springrate.

JRZ adviced linear to me, while BMW delivers progressive springs and porsche I believe linear... Some people stated, progressive is more all round, linear more racetrack. And then how to choose the right springrate and ratio between front and rear.... I have been reading a lot, but sometimes you see the same ratio but then 100f vs 150r and 200f vs 300r.

For me it is like this, I should be able to transport people with the car without " complains" while on the same time I should be able to feel the car and the road and be in control in a predictable way. Progressive might give rebound as far as I understood while linear might avoid this.

Any good advice for me?

I have learned a lot sofar.... thanks for that, based on the questions I might be buying above my driving skills / knowledge,, but my delibration is that I do appreciate great suspensions like Porsche and Lotus... and good suspension might help improving driving skills as you better " feel" the car..... difficult difficult hahaha
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      09-19-2012, 06:21 PM   #11
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E9x's have linear rate springs not progressive.
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      09-19-2012, 07:11 PM   #12
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Ah ok... that might be the confusion...
But I believe BWM changed that on their way, 2011 MSport seems to be linear, before q4 2010 they seems to have been progressive...

Altough not sure if BMW is using the same spring concepts across the 1 series and the 3 series...

http://www.bimmer-mag.com/issues/96/...-better?page=2
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      09-19-2012, 09:59 PM   #13
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Nope. You're confusing the E8x and E9x platforms. E9x's have had linear rate springs since day 1. I have an '07. E8x's had progressive rate springs untl m/y 2011.

Anyways, if you're going full boat on your suspension, I'd just communicate your realistic needs to jrz and use whatever springs they recommend..g/l
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      09-19-2012, 10:26 PM   #14
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^ Agreed, go with what JRZ says.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rismo View Post
You actualy state: Better overall ride quality, better comfort due to better spring technology? and on the same moment more control?
The ride quality is attributable to the damper almost entirely, assuming the spring rate is properly matched. I honestly wouldn't worry about the spring; simply go with JRZ's recommendation. My ACS M3 springs fit my intended usage, I spent some time talking with VAC to decide on the right solution.
Quote:
Originally Posted by rismo View Post
How did it change your braking? Did it affect the controlabilty of the car during hard stop before cornering?

I hope we are on the same page of describing comfort, I'm a litte bit worried to spend such an amount while not beeing completly sure if it will be still acceptable for daily business driving.
The damping quality affects all vehicle dynamics - braking, cornering, acceleration, any force that would put the car's mass in motion. The JRZ RS1 has unquestionably improved my car's dynamics in every way. There is no downside I can name, whether it be in performance or comfort. I consider the RS1 to be a "no compromises" product. You pay for that privilege but it is what it is.

Everyone's perception of comfort is different. My opinion is that the stock 335's damper/spring combo was way underpowered - comfortable in a sloppy sort of way with no sporting character.
The JRZ RS1 damper helps the tire maintain the best possible contact with the road surface due to their use of gas pressure, a large piston rod and valving design that allows for the correct buildup of compression and rebound damping forces via valving without preloading (amongst other things). As a result of this design, what you see on the road you'll feel in the car, nothing more, nothing less. This is why it's not uncomfortable despite being far more capable. Your body is feeling what it is seeing on the road ... so it is perceived as normal. If otherwise, then your body will tell you it's 'uncomfortable' because it is not natural. Ever get seasick? The solution is to watch the waves - then the boat's motion matches what you are seeing and the sensation goes away.

Maybe JRZ has a car you can get a ride in?
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      09-20-2012, 05:05 PM   #15
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Thanks a lot guys! I think the best next step indeed is to ask JRZ for some real live demo. I highly appreciated from you both the effort and time to share with me your personal experience and technical feedback. thanks again!

I'm now pretty sure my car will have JRZ somewhere this year ;-)

Keep you posted and I will provide a nice review when I have installed them!
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      11-09-2012, 02:12 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rismo View Post
Thanks a lot guys! I think the best next step indeed is to ask JRZ for some real live demo. I highly appreciated from you both the effort and time to share with me your personal experience and technical feedback. thanks again!

I'm now pretty sure my car will have JRZ somewhere this year ;-)

Keep you posted and I will provide a nice review when I have installed them!
Subscribed, lots of good info in this thread. I look forward to seeing what you end up doing.
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      11-13-2012, 05:51 PM   #17
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New reinforced anti roll bar mount for the front struts!

This is the latest shipment from JRZ. All future shipments should have the new reinforced mounts as well.
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