Installed Rob Beck turbos - misfiring (with Vishnu) - BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum

edo · 10-21-2012, 11:10 AM

Hi, guys,

so I installed Rob Beck turbos some time ago and went for some Performance Box testing today.

I have Vishnu Rev.2 V4 and run V4 8-17 MT Upgraded Turbo maps.

During the first run, doing WOT in 4th gear, I got a limp mode (~6200 rpm). Erased the codes and went back home to take my laptop.
I was data logging and doing 100-200 kph and 60-130 mph runs and about 60% of all runs I got limp modes.

All of them were either in 3rd of in 4th gear when passing ~6200-6300 rpm. If I don't push over 6k rpm, everything's just fine.

The codes were:
10700 - 29CC: haven't found the definition, but it's related with misfires.
10705 - 29D1: Misfirings, cylinder 5
10706 - 29D1: Misfirings, cylinder 6

As mentioned before, I am running V4 8-17 MT Upgraded Turbo maps with these settings:

Firmware 29

I was running both Map 1 and Map 2.
Oh, I'm not sure if it's relevant, but I haven't done this harness upgrade yet.

98 RON fuel (93-94 AKI)

I can post some data logs, but don't know which channels to choose.

Could it be software related problems or hardware (again)?

As far as I understand the reasons could be:
- software related: wrong maps, wrong settings resulting in too lean AFRs, etc.
- hardware related: spark plugs, spark plug coils, O2 sensor, injectors.

My car was running fine before installing upgraded turbos.

Thanks in advance.

P.S. The car runs strong on low boost, but not too impressive @ ~16 psi. Only 0.2-0.4 seconds faster 100-200 and 60-130.

I was expecting to improve the times by at least 1 second...

rismo · 10-21-2012, 11:33 AM

Hi Edo,

Havent't had any probs with the Upped maps on default settings.
They should be fine on themselve....

Probably, as they car seem to missfire under load, the coils might be causing this. Could also be your Fuel pump...

I believe the 29cc is the low pressure fuel pump error code.

they code has been mentioned in the past on this forum.

GeorgiaTech335coupe · 10-21-2012, 11:34 AM

10700 is misfire, multiple cylinders.

More power will definitely make a weak link in the ignition system show up a lot more. Same reason why people have trouble getting their car to misfire on stock boost to bring it in for warranty, when they easily do it tuned.

Since the misfire is at high rpms, I would check the plugs on those 2 cylinders first. Then coils. Swap them with good cylinder and see if it moves.

edo · 10-21-2012, 11:42 AM

Thanks for the answers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by rismo

Probably, as they car seem to missfire under load, the coils might be causing this. Could also be your Fuel pump...

I believe the 29cc is the low pressure fuel pump error code.

My HPFP was replaced free of charge at the dealership one month ago. Not sure about low pressure fuel pump, though...

Oh, I already forgot - which cylinder is number 6 and which is number 1?

cstavaru · 10-21-2012, 12:05 PM

Log LPFP fuel pressure.

bigdnno98 · 10-21-2012, 12:14 PM

1 is closest to radiator 6 closest to firewall.

edo · 10-21-2012, 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cstavaru

Log LPFP fuel pressure.

Which channel logs LPFP fuel pressure?

Quote:

Originally Posted by bigdnno98

1 is closest to radiator 6 closest to firewall.

Thanks!

Some logs (don't know if these channels are the most important):

3rd gear limp:

3rd gear limp:

4th gear limp:

shaginwagon13 · 10-21-2012, 12:41 PM

From the front of the car to firewall cylinder location:

1-2-3-4-5-6

Firing order:

1-5-3-6-2-4

Jeff@TopGearSolutions · 10-21-2012, 01:12 PM

How many miles on the spark plugs? They should be changed every 20,000 miles - 25,000. Spark plugs are notorious for causing misfires especially old ones. As they age the gap increases.

Dave W. · 10-21-2012, 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

How many miles on the spark plugs? They should be changed every 20,000 miles - 25,000. Spark plugs are notorious for causing misfires especially old ones. As they age the gap increases.

and higher boost needs tighter gaps.

litz4244 · 10-21-2012, 02:11 PM

Did u reset everything when u loaded the firmware?

edo · 10-21-2012, 03:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions

How many miles on the spark plugs? They should be changed every 20,000 miles - 25,000. Spark plugs are notorious for causing misfires especially old ones. As they age the gap increases.

I changed my spark plugs ~ 2.000 miles ago.

edo · 10-21-2012, 03:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by litz4244

Did u reset everything when u loaded the firmware?

I did everything as it was written. Don't remember if I did some kind of reset, though.

Dmacc · 10-21-2012, 04:34 PM

Try swapping coils off of cylinders 5 and 6 with two other working cylinders and see if the misfire moves to those cylinders.

scottp999 · 10-21-2012, 04:43 PM

Interesting. Never had a problem, but have always run v5 maps without auto-tuning, and with meth. You have auto tuning on. I can't even remember what the v4 limitations were as far as the latest maps.

I know you are overseas, any way vishnu would send you rev 2.5 box before you send them your rev 2 to save you on downtime? That way you could use the latest maps and firmware to see if it helps?

robc1976 · 10-21-2012, 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave W.

and higher boost needs tighter gaps.

Really, I ave never heard that, I use stock gap on 19 psi...what gap do you suggest?

themyst · 10-21-2012, 06:31 PM

That sucks OP, I would see if you can borrow another tune to rule it out. Lots of people have had this issue and from what I can tell, plugs, coils, injectors, vanos, etc. nothing fixed it. Only way you can really get around it is with a Cobb AP turning misfire detection off.

If coils, injectors or vanos are the issue, consider yourself lucky. I don't think that's the issue though, especially if the car was running perfectly before RBs.

Dave W. · 10-21-2012, 10:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by robc1976

Really, I ave never heard that, I use stock gap on 19 psi...what gap do you suggest?

If it's not misfiring then you're good. Otherwise drop the gap a few thou. For tuned cars around 17-19psi I like to use .023" gap. There's no harm going slightly tighter and it'll give a little room for wear over time.

themyst · 10-21-2012, 10:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dave W.

If it's not misfiring then you're good. Otherwise drop the gap a few thou. For tuned cars around 17-19psi I like to use .023" gap. There's no harm going slightly tighter and it'll give a little room for wear over time.

People have tried tighter gaps using NGK plugs with no success fixing this specific issue.

E92murdered · 10-22-2012, 01:45 AM

do this!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dmacc

Try swapping coils off of cylinders 5 and 6 with two other working cylinders and see if the misfire moves to those cylinders.

edo · 10-22-2012, 04:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by E92murdered

do this!

Will do this today. I so hope spark plugs are the reason...

rismo · 10-22-2012, 04:36 AM

Double

10-21-2012, 11:10 AM	#1
edo ****** Drives: E92 335i Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: hell Posts: 838 iTrader: (1)	Installed Rob Beck turbos - misfiring (with Vishnu).Misfires fixed.Timing problems... Hi, guys, so I installed Rob Beck turbos some time ago and went for some Performance Box testing today. I have Vishnu Rev.2 V4 and run V4 8-17 MT Upgraded Turbo maps. During the first run, doing WOT in 4th gear, I got a limp mode (~6200 rpm). Erased the codes and went back home to take my laptop. I was data logging and doing 100-200 kph and 60-130 mph runs and about 60% of all runs I got limp modes. All of them were either in 3rd of in 4th gear when passing ~6200-6300 rpm. If I don't push over 6k rpm, everything's just fine. The codes were: 10700 - 29CC: haven't found the definition, but it's related with misfires. 10705 - 29D1: Misfirings, cylinder 5 10706 - 29D1: Misfirings, cylinder 6 As mentioned before, I am running V4 8-17 MT Upgraded Turbo maps with these settings: Firmware 29 I was running both Map 1 and Map 2. Oh, I'm not sure if it's relevant, but I haven't done this harness upgrade yet. 98 RON fuel (93-94 AKI) I can post some data logs, but don't know which channels to choose. Could it be software related problems or hardware (again)? As far as I understand the reasons could be: - software related: wrong maps, wrong settings resulting in too lean AFRs, etc. - hardware related: spark plugs, spark plug coils, O2 sensor, injectors. My car was running fine before installing upgraded turbos. Thanks in advance. P.S. The car runs strong on low boost, but not too impressive @ ~16 psi. Only 0.2-0.4 seconds faster 100-200 and 60-130. I was expecting to improve the times by at least 1 second... __________________ Mods: RB turbos, PROcede Rev2.5 V5, BMS DCI, Scoops, Forge DVs, ar design catless DPs, Milltek exhaust system, Helix FMIC, Quaife LSD, VK MotorWerks OC Kit, Bilstein B16 PSS10 The ultimate mods' installation thread Last edited by edo; 11-13-2012 at 03:29 PM.
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10-21-2012, 11:33 AM	#2
rismo Captain Drives: BMW E92 335 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 727 iTrader: (0)	Hi Edo, Havent't had any probs with the Upped maps on default settings. They should be fine on themselve.... Probably, as they car seem to missfire under load, the coils might be causing this. Could also be your Fuel pump... I believe the 29cc is the low pressure fuel pump error code. they code has been mentioned in the past on this forum. __________________ BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar

10-21-2012, 11:34 AM	#3
GeorgiaTech335coupe Lieutenant Colonel Drives: Black BMW 335i coupe Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: USA Posts: 1,841 iTrader: (0)	10700 is misfire, multiple cylinders. More power will definitely make a weak link in the ignition system show up a lot more. Same reason why people have trouble getting their car to misfire on stock boost to bring it in for warranty, when they easily do it tuned. Since the misfire is at high rpms, I would check the plugs on those 2 cylinders first. Then coils. Swap them with good cylinder and see if it moves. __________________ Legal Disclaimer: Anything I or anyone else says about my vehicle on this website(e90post.com or any affiliated or nonaffiliated sites), pertaining to modifications, is only to gain acceptance from my/our peers, and does not actually represent anything actually existing on my car, and thus, cannot be held against me in any issues, i.e. warranty claims, that may arise.

10-21-2012, 12:05 PM	#5
cstavaru Brigadier General Drives: 2009 335i M Sport Sedan 6MT Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Bucharest, Romania Posts: 3,212 iTrader: (0)	Log LPFP fuel pressure. __________________ Mods(click): Cobb + RB Turbos \| Aquamist HFS-4 Meth \| Drexler LSD \| Bilstein B12 Pro-Kit \| Custom K&N Apollo Intake \| Wagner Intercooler \| Macht Schnell Downpipes \| BMW Performance Power Kit \| BMW Performance Exhaust \| BMW Performance Short Shifter \| M3 Subframe Bushings \| Licensing

10-21-2012, 12:14 PM	#6
bigdnno98 Major Drives: 09 e92 335i MT Join Date: Jul 2011 Location: Clarksville, TN Posts: 1,125 iTrader: (7)	1 is closest to radiator 6 closest to firewall. __________________ New Project....... 2.4L Long Rod motor for my EVO 03 Evo 8 HTA3582r Blown Motor 09 e92 335i MT Sold 440hp/480tq

10-21-2012, 12:41 PM	#8
shaginwagon13 Captain Drives: BMW 335i Coupe Join Date: Apr 2012 Location: Toronto Posts: 849 iTrader: (4)	From the front of the car to firewall cylinder location: 1-2-3-4-5-6 Firing order: 1-5-3-6-2-4

10-21-2012, 01:12 PM	#9
Jeff@TopGearSolutions BimmerPost Supporting Vendor Drives: C6 Z06, GSXR-750, 09 335i Join Date: Dec 2008 Location: TopGearSolutions.com Posts: 12,428 iTrader: (25)	How many miles on the spark plugs? They should be changed every 20,000 miles - 25,000. Spark plugs are notorious for causing misfires especially old ones. As they age the gap increases. __________________ Latest Specials!! Email Me! Jeff@TopGearSolutions.Com Evolution Racewerks Charge Pipes and FMIC Sale ETS FMIC INTERCOOLER SALE! Cobb AP for BMW N54 & N55, Lowest Price! Like Us On Facebook For Discounts!

10-21-2012, 02:11 PM	#11
litz4244 Second Lieutenant Drives: e90 Join Date: May 2010 Location: delaware Posts: 282 iTrader: (2)	Did u reset everything when u loaded the firmware? __________________ 07 335 fbo and meth and rb turbos

10-21-2012, 04:34 PM	#14
Dmacc Lieutenant Colonel Drives: 2010 135i Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Nor Cal Posts: 1,830 iTrader: (1)	Try swapping coils off of cylinders 5 and 6 with two other working cylinders and see if the misfire moves to those cylinders. __________________ thanks to MGallop

10-21-2012, 04:43 PM	#15
scottp999 MFP - Twin Turbo I6 Interceptor Drives: 335i - E92 - 6MT & 4runner SR5 Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: MD Posts: 4,428 iTrader: (1) Garage List 2007 BMW 335 [4.50]	Interesting. Never had a problem, but have always run v5 maps without auto-tuning, and with meth. You have auto tuning on. I can't even remember what the v4 limitations were as far as the latest maps. I know you are overseas, any way vishnu would send you rev 2.5 box before you send them your rev 2 to save you on downtime? That way you could use the latest maps and firmware to see if it helps? __________________ Rob Beck Turbos, PROcede Rev. 3, PPS Methanol System (DO12/Aquamist Flow Sensor), DCI, Quaife LSD, BMW Performance Suspension, Autobahn Exotics Exhaust, Helix FMIC, AR Design Downpipes, BSH Catch Can, Forge Diverter Valves, P3cars Vent Boost Gauge, Alufelgen CSL Reps, Lux 5.1 H8 Angel Eyes, HPB HID Fogs, LTBMW M3 Side Skirts, BMW M3 Rear Spoiler, BMW Front Aero Lip, BMW Pedal Kit, BMW M Shift Knob, Autotecknic Matte Black Grilles.

10-21-2012, 06:31 PM	#17
themyst Major General Drives: E90 335i LCI Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: NYC Posts: 6,325 iTrader: (8)	That sucks OP, I would see if you can borrow another tune to rule it out. Lots of people have had this issue and from what I can tell, plugs, coils, injectors, vanos, etc. nothing fixed it. Only way you can really get around it is with a Cobb AP turning misfire detection off. If coils, injectors or vanos are the issue, consider yourself lucky. I don't think that's the issue though, especially if the car was running perfectly before RBs. __________________ E90 LCI N54 6AT

10-22-2012, 04:36 AM	#22
rismo Captain Drives: BMW E92 335 Join Date: Jul 2008 Location: Europe Posts: 727 iTrader: (0)	Double __________________ BMW 335 E92 08 - Full options - RIP BMW 335 E92 09 - Full options - DKG - Procede Rev 3 - Vishnu Meth and Chargepipe - Forge Diverter Valves - Vishnu Flex Fuel Kit- AR Catless DP - Afe Intake - Helix IC - Ar Oil Cooler - PPK Water Cooler - M3 Suspension - JRZ RS1 Shocks - Eibach Pro Springs - Drexler LSD - BMW IS Exhaust - EBC Yellow Brake Pads - Stainless Steel Brake Lines - M101 Wheels - Michelin PSS - M-Tech Body - M-Strutbar

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