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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Shift Sector Single Turbo Vids?



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      11-27-2012, 07:26 PM   #243
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Is there a mailing list that goes out anytime someone questions the ST? About a million rebuttals and still nothing substantial. No one is demanding anything, the lack of videos/quarter times/etc. just doesn't back up the huge amount of hype. That's the issue. I haven't heard anything but excuses but I don't expect that to change since it would appear the kit isn't living up to expectations. Until that data is out, people aren't going to buy into this, plain and simple. Its been how many months now? Being first to market doesn't mean much if you still cant show anything for it at the most basic run what you brung race.
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      11-27-2012, 07:35 PM   #244
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Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Is there a mailing list that goes out anytime someone questions the ST? About a million rebuttals and still nothing substantial. No one is demanding anything, the lack of videos/quarter times/etc. just doesn't back up the huge amount of hype. That's the issue. I haven't heard anything but excuses but I don't expect that to change since it would appear the kit isn't living up to expectations. Until that data is out, people aren't going to buy into this, plain and simple. Its been how many months now? Being first to market doesn't mean much if you still cant show anything for it at the most basic run what you brung race.
You've got to be kidding me, you're not a fan of 650whp?
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      11-27-2012, 07:36 PM   #245
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
Is there a mailing list that goes out anytime someone questions the ST? About a million rebuttals and still nothing substantial. No one is demanding anything, the lack of videos/quarter times/etc. just doesn't back up the huge amount of hype. That's the issue. I haven't heard anything but excuses but I don't expect that to change since it would appear the kit isn't living up to expectations. Until that data is out, people aren't going to buy into this, plain and simple. Its been how many months now? Being first to market doesn't mean much if you still cant show anything for it at the most basic run what you brung race.
I hope you realize there are many people who don't go on forums in general, or this one specifically. There are also many people who dont need to boast about their latest time slip, if they even went to the track at all.

There is plenty of data on here, perhaps you have not looked around...

Or perhaps not everyone that bought this kit didn't buy the kit to appease the people that want 1/4 mile runs. I got news for everyone, this car will never be a drag queen, not without extensive work, so anyone buying this for the 1/4 mile has been seriously mislead.

I got a z06 and it's never seen the strip, does that mean it can't perform? It's actual intention is for road courses, it hasn't seen one of those either.

If I let my buddy drive it, you think he can squeeze out high 10's, cause it can do it on paper? Most of us here are average joes, in a simply quest for more power, as enthusiast. There are few and far between ready to go out on their own dime and time just to appease a few people requesting MORE time slips and videos.

There actually is no issue, I think there is just a few people bored on the internet and looking to stir a pot that doesn't need stirring.

Those that bought the kit enjoy it. They dont need to go to the track for internet props.

I'm more curious then anything else, how many more time slips are needed and how many more dyno's are needed before people stop the bashing? (Keep in mind this car is not set up for drag racing, especially with 650WHP and tires as small as buick's).

My z06 has 325's out back and that barely keeps the 470WHP in check. This car is not performing well at the track without a legit driver and plenty of other supporting mods, and above all else seat time. If everyone thinks people are just going to slap on a turbo kit and run 10's out the gate, you have not been realistic.

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      11-27-2012, 07:42 PM   #246
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I hope you realize there are many people who don't go on forums in general, or this one specifically. There are also many people who dont need to boast about their latest time slip, if they even went to the track at all.

There is plenty of data on here, perhaps you have not looked around...

Or perhaps not everyone that bought this kit didn't buy the kit to appease the people that want 1/4 mile runs.

I got a z06 and it's never seen the strip, does that mean it can't perform? It's actual intention is for road courses, it hasn't seen one of those either.

If I let my buddy drive it, you think he can squeeze out high 10's, cause it can do it on paper? Most of us here are average joes, in a simply quest for more power, as enthusiast. There are few and far between ready to go out on their own dime and time just to appease a few people requesting MORE time slips and videos.

There actually is no issue, I think there is just a few people bored on the internet and looking to stir a pot that doesn't need stirring.

Those that bought the kit enjoy it. They dont need to go to the track for internet props.
While I agree with you for the majority but you can't compare your z06 to an aftermarket turbo kit. People know the capabilities of a z06 from there being plenty of data and known specs.

As for the single kit, I must admit that the lack of hard data/times is a little strange since things seemed to be so strong when the kit was first coming out. If people are curious about spending 10k on a turbo kit then more data should be expected and 1/4 mile times are a reasonable expectation of data.

That's all I'm saying but people don't have the right to get upset if an individual who spent their hard-earned money to buy a kit doesn't give them all the hard data they want.
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      11-27-2012, 07:52 PM   #247
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I am not upset, just don't expect Ooos and Ahhhs without hard data. No demands, but don't hype something that cant be backed up. That's all. There was so much hype and now nothing. No videos after the big race... its not like they didn't attend lol. Lets be honest, the results were lack luster. If nothing ever materializes it really isn't going to upset me one bit. I am just taking the ST with a grain of salt until then. Will be interested to see if more data comes out once Vargas Stage 3 is running (he finished mock up and its not being welded...).
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      11-27-2012, 07:58 PM   #248
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
I am not upset, just don't expect Ooos and Ahhhs without hard data. No demands, but don't hype something that cant be backed up. That's all. There was so much hype and now nothing. No videos after the big race... its not like they didn't attend lol. Lets be honest, the results were lack luster. If nothing ever materializes it really isn't going to upset me one bit. I am just taking the ST with a grain of salt until then. Will be interested to see if more data comes out once Vargas Stage 3 is running (he finished mock up and its not being welded...).
All the proof is in the Dyno, and the 3rd Party dyno's. The kit is designed to make hp which is does, significantly more than RB turbos. That is what you are paying for, horsepower. There are no blown engines, that means the kit is working. It is making 650whp, verified by multiple sources, it is working.

I don't see how anyone's time slip that takes into account so many other variables will show you if the kit is working or not.
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      11-27-2012, 08:00 PM   #249
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
While I agree with you for the majority but you can't compare your z06 to an aftermarket turbo kit. People know the capabilities of a z06 from there being plenty of data and known specs.

As for the single kit, I must admit that the lack of hard data/times is a little strange since things seemed to be so strong when the kit was first coming out. If people are curious about spending 10k on a turbo kit then more data should be expected and 1/4 mile times are a reasonable expectation of data.

That's all I'm saying but people don't have the right to get upset if an individual who spent their hard-earned money to buy a kit doesn't give them all the hard data they want.
I'm going to agree to disagree. Not everyone that buys this kit has to being going to the drag strip or even wants to so the lack of data as you say just means 1 of a few things:

A) They havn't gone
B) They spun the tires off the car
or
C) They are not boasting about it on the internet for some stranger.

Not to mention, the 1/4 is actually the WORST and most irrelevant way of judging a cars performance, especially one that will spin halfway down the track anyway.

Now, if you had a GTR, with launch control, I'd imagine times would be a lot more consistent as traction and driver are no longer part of the equation. That is a step on the gas and go car (for the majority of power adders it has).

The most realistic and control data that can be used and always will be used is power (dynos). There are plenty of dyno's to show the power on here.

Has anyone here actually driven a typical street car that went from 300HP to 700+ crank and expected to run 10's out of the box?

650 WHP, 275 street tires? What do you expect?
You will maybe hook up 4th gear with that kind of power, 3rd if your lucky on a well prepped track.

Then you need to perfect the launch, not bog, not spin out of the hole, or snap on axle.

Then each shift has to be on point.

Slap on some drag radials and you will still spin 1st in 2nd still.

Throw on some slicks and you need to worry about drivetrain abuse, snapping axles and launching at nearly red line to ensure a proper launch.

Not to mention not everyone here is an expert driver.

I'm sorry guys, this is not a drag car, so insisting the 1/4 mile times are the best way of determining a turbo kit's performance is not at all realistic, and that goes for any platform.

I have friends with twin turbo supras that can barely get out of 11's, with 800WHP. The car is making the power, but if the platform can't put it to the ground, it doesnt mean his turbo kit failed. He went to the track a couple times, had fun, spun tire half way down the track and has a high 11 pass with a high 120 trap. The car is actually faster but he can't drive and the car is not set up right for drag racing.

However, on the highway the car is a monster, it's fun as hell, and not to mention he never wanted it to be a drag car. It's a daily driven supra, that is now a highway monster. He can't hook up 1st or 2nd to save his life and he knows it.

Cliffnotes:

-Drag times are not an indication of a turbo kit's performance where there are many variables like traction, and driver to take into consideration.

- Not everyone who bought this kit has to go to the strip.

- Not everyone who bought this kit has to post their life story on the internet, and specifically this forum.

All excuses aside, the turbo kit makes the power, the end user still has to want to make the car capable of running down the 1/4 mile, if they even wanted that from the car in the first place.
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      11-27-2012, 08:06 PM   #250
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I guess the problem is with dynos we are running into so many inconclusive results.

1.) Is it a dynojet or Mustang
2.) Is it an optimistic reading dyno
3.) Are they using meth
4.) Lack of baseline

Haven't we seen anywhere from 52x whp to 65x whp?
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      11-27-2012, 08:13 PM   #251
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
I guess the problem is with dynos we are running into so many inconclusive results.

1.) Is it a dynojet or Mustang
2.) Is it an optimistic reading dyno
3.) Are they using meth
4.) Lack of baseline

Haven't we seen anywhere from 52x whp to 65x whp?
Depends greatly on 6AT vs 6MT. There's a 6AT making almost 600whp right now. I think my car currently (and publically ) is the only one that has made more than 600whp without meth.

Results aren't inconclusive between the same setups. You are going to make way more than 600whp with a 6MT and meth.
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      11-27-2012, 08:20 PM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pits200 View Post
I guess the problem is with dynos we are running into so many inconclusive results.

1.) Is it a dynojet or Mustang
2.) Is it an optimistic reading dyno
3.) Are they using meth
4.) Lack of baseline

Haven't we seen anywhere from 52x whp to 65x whp?
Yes, anywhere from low 500s (Mustang) to mid 600s (Dynojets with 6MT). And yes, almost all of them are with meth, except for a few runs that stated either no meth or E85 testing.
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      11-27-2012, 08:44 PM   #253
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Came here for videos, left with a headache.
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      11-27-2012, 08:52 PM   #254
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I'm going to agree to disagree. Not everyone that buys this kit has to being going to the drag strip or even wants to so the lack of data as you say just means 1 of a few things:

A) They havn't gone
B) They spun the tires off the car
or
C) They are not boasting about it on the internet for some stranger.

Not to mention, the 1/4 is actually the WORST and most irrelevant way of judging a cars performance, especially one that will spin halfway down the track anyway.

Now, if you had a GTR, with launch control, I'd imagine times would be a lot more consistent as traction and driver are no longer part of the equation. That is a step on the gas and go car (for the majority of power adders it has).

The most realistic and control data that can be used and always will be used is power (dynos). There are plenty of dyno's to show the power on here.

Has anyone here actually driven a typical street car that went from 300HP to 700+ crank and expected to run 10's out of the box?

650 WHP, 275 street tires? What do you expect?
You will maybe hook up 4th gear with that kind of power, 3rd if your lucky on a well prepped track.

Then you need to perfect the launch, not bog, not spin out of the hole, or snap on axle.

Then each shift has to be on point.

Slap on some drag radials and you will still spin 1st in 2nd still.

Throw on some slicks and you need to worry about drivetrain abuse, snapping axles and launching at nearly red line to ensure a proper launch.

Not to mention not everyone here is an expert driver.

I'm sorry guys, this is not a drag car, so insisting the 1/4 mile times are the best way of determining a turbo kit's performance is not at all realistic, and that goes for any platform.

I have friends with twin turbo supras that can barely get out of 11's, with 800WHP. The car is making the power, but if the platform can't put it to the ground, it doesnt mean his turbo kit failed. He went to the track a couple times, had fun, spun tire half way down the track and has a high 11 pass with a high 120 trap. The car is actually faster but he can't drive and the car is not set up right for drag racing.

However, on the highway the car is a monster, it's fun as hell, and not to mention he never wanted it to be a drag car. It's a daily driven supra, that is now a highway monster. He can't hook up 1st or 2nd to save his life and he knows it.

Cliffnotes:

-Drag times are not an indication of a turbo kit's performance where there are many variables like traction, and driver to take into consideration.

- Not everyone who bought this kit has to go to the strip.

- Not everyone who bought this kit has to post their life story on the internet, and specifically this forum.

All excuses aside, the turbo kit makes the power, the end user still has to want to make the car capable of running down the 1/4 mile, if they even wanted that from the car in the first place.
Which goes to the point....its a parking lot horsepower bragging rights thing because of all the reasons you stated as to why the 335 is a bad choice for this much power. Lots of power the BMW can’t put on the ground. So much hype so few results.

BTW don’t most of the guys who bought one drop in here & weren't 100% of the guys who showed up at the airport run members here posting about how they bought one & what a killer it was going to be? After all the “I got one” drama posts they made why did they suddenly loose interest in posting E90post to get on with there lives in obscurity?

Its also nice to hear that on the street in an illegal 130+ MPH street race run its a real beast. Guess the issue is if its such a killer on the street what happened at the legal 160/165+ airport run?

Any good performance car is not all about how much horsepower it can deliver but about how much horsepower it can actually use effectively & reliability.
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      11-27-2012, 08:53 PM   #255
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well I like the drag strip and my stock turbos are blown. so are you guys telling me in summary not to get the single because I won't be able to beat my 11s on stock turbos?
since I go to the dragstrip all the time would I be better off with RBs?
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      11-27-2012, 09:19 PM   #256
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Shut the fuck up!!!!!!

Man my neighbors must having some crazy party tonight. Sorry to rant here.
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      11-27-2012, 09:27 PM   #257
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Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
BTW don’t most of the guys who bought one drop in here & weren't 100% of the guys who showed up at the airport run members here posting about how they bought one & what a killer it was going to be? After all the “I got one” drama posts they made why did they suddenly loose interest in posting E90post to get on with there lives in obscurity?
I didn't go around claiming I was going to beat everyone because I got one...

Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Its also nice to hear that on the street in an illegal 130+ MPH street race run its a real beast. Guess the issue is if its such a killer on the street what happened at the legal 160/165+ airport run?
Who said 130mph on the street? And the difference is about 30mph and being in a different gear...
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      11-27-2012, 09:31 PM   #258
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Simple fact. Any kit that approaches the power level of the ST kits on a 6AT will face the same issue. Period.

There is no point in saying this is a failure for the ST crowd if the same will occur with upgraded twins at this power lever (if they ever exist). This leads you to: the platform is limited without modification to the Trans (Again any turbo upgrade able to produce 600whp (dynojet) on a 6AT) will have to be completed. That's what no one is understanding. I don't care who you are if you have 600whp in a 6AT and you don't have a built Trans your f$&ed just like us.

PS my Single Turbo is the best thing since sliced bread Lol
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      11-27-2012, 09:32 PM   #259
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I'm going to agree to disagree. Not everyone that buys this kit has to being going to the drag strip or even wants to so the lack of data as you say just means 1 of a few things:

A) They havn't gone
B) They spun the tires off the car
or
C) They are not boasting about it on the internet for some stranger.

Not to mention, the 1/4 is actually the WORST and most irrelevant way of judging a cars performance, especially one that will spin halfway down the track anyway.

Now, if you had a GTR, with launch control, I'd imagine times would be a lot more consistent as traction and driver are no longer part of the equation. That is a step on the gas and go car (for the majority of power adders it has).

The most realistic and control data that can be used and always will be used is power (dynos). There are plenty of dyno's to show the power on here.

Has anyone here actually driven a typical street car that went from 300HP to 700+ crank and expected to run 10's out of the box?

650 WHP, 275 street tires? What do you expect?
You will maybe hook up 4th gear with that kind of power, 3rd if your lucky on a well prepped track.

Then you need to perfect the launch, not bog, not spin out of the hole, or snap on axle.

Then each shift has to be on point.

Slap on some drag radials and you will still spin 1st in 2nd still.

Throw on some slicks and you need to worry about drivetrain abuse, snapping axles and launching at nearly red line to ensure a proper launch.

Not to mention not everyone here is an expert driver.

I'm sorry guys, this is not a drag car, so insisting the 1/4 mile times are the best way of determining a turbo kit's performance is not at all realistic, and that goes for any platform.

I have friends with twin turbo supras that can barely get out of 11's, with 800WHP. The car is making the power, but if the platform can't put it to the ground, it doesnt mean his turbo kit failed. He went to the track a couple times, had fun, spun tire half way down the track and has a high 11 pass with a high 120 trap. The car is actually faster but he can't drive and the car is not set up right for drag racing.

However, on the highway the car is a monster, it's fun as hell, and not to mention he never wanted it to be a drag car. It's a daily driven supra, that is now a highway monster. He can't hook up 1st or 2nd to save his life and he knows it.

Cliffnotes:

-Drag times are not an indication of a turbo kit's performance where there are many variables like traction, and driver to take into consideration.

- Not everyone who bought this kit has to go to the strip.

- Not everyone who bought this kit has to post their life story on the internet, and specifically this forum.

All excuses aside, the turbo kit makes the power, the end user still has to want to make the car capable of running down the 1/4 mile, if they even wanted that from the car in the first place.
Which goes to the point....its a parking lot horsepower bragging rights thing because of all the reasons you stated as to why the 335 is a bad choice for this much power. Lots of power the BMW cant put on the ground. So much hype so few results.

BTW dont most of the guys who bought one drop in here & weren't 100% of the guys who showed up at the airport run members here posting about how they bought one & what a killer it was going to be? After all the I got one drama posts they made why did they suddenly loose interest in posting E90post to get on with there lives in obscurity?

Its also nice to hear that on the street in an illegal 130+ MPH street race run its a real beast. Guess the issue is if its such a killer on the street what happened at the legal 160/165+ airport run?

Any good performance car is not all about how much horsepower it can deliver but about how much horsepower it can actually use effectively & reliability.
FYI bear I was at the event and I have been banned for the last two months kinda hard to hype myself if I'm banned.

But!!!!! You can quote me on saying the 6AT will be a beast and put the power down. Shit it's just money
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      11-27-2012, 10:31 PM   #260
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Even without numbers, there is no denying that having a single in my car is ridiculously fun. I don't have to dyno to know that even at only 22psi (what I'm running now til that last few housekeeping items are complete), the car would absolutely crush my old setup of FBO+meth.

The sound of turbo alone just about justifies the price. The WTF looks I see on people's faces when I get on it is priceless. The sound makes you want to go WOT all the time.

But having said all that, I will have a before and after dyno comparison (same dyno, same gas, 1 month apart, all independent from the vendor), 1/4 mi slips (hopefully this Sunday, but I can almost guarantee my times will be horrible at first - car is much different to launch, more interested in trap speed for time being), 60-130 runs (just screwing around while troubleshooting, I was already getting a little over a second faster 60-100 than previous setup and that isn't even the area where the single will shine over stockers), and runs against some other ridiculously fast cars (low 10s GTR, 730whp GT500, and probably some other stock turbo n54s). I have 100s of before 1/4 mile slips for comparison as well and have seen many combinations of tunes/mods at my local track to make a fair comparison so we aren't comparing a different transmission and a track that regularly sets records with huge negative DAs with a track that is well known to be shit for track prep and is always well in the 1000 DA.
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      11-27-2012, 10:41 PM   #261
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Originally Posted by creaminz View Post
Shut the fuck up!!!!!!

Man my neighbors must having some crazy party tonight. Sorry to rant here.
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      11-27-2012, 10:42 PM   #262
Jeff@TopGearSolutions
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BEAR-AvHistory View Post
Which goes to the point....its a parking lot horsepower bragging rights thing because of all the reasons you stated as to why the 335 is a bad choice for this much power. Lots of power the BMW can’t put on the ground. So much hype so few results.

BTW don’t most of the guys who bought one drop in here & weren't 100% of the guys who showed up at the airport run members here posting about how they bought one & what a killer it was going to be? After all the “I got one” drama posts they made why did they suddenly loose interest in posting E90post to get on with there lives in obscurity?

Its also nice to hear that on the street in an illegal 130+ MPH street race run its a real beast. Guess the issue is if its such a killer on the street what happened at the legal 160/165+ airport run?

Any good performance car is not all about how much horsepower it can deliver but about how much horsepower it can actually use effectively & reliability.
Well if the question is it a bad choice, that depends on how you look at it and what fits into your needs and wants. Is it the most ideal platform, no of course not, but then again, that can be a very opinionated subject. However, whatever makes you happy is what you need to concentrate on.

My point is simple though, people keep worrying about everyone elses results. We know the kit makes the power. Now, the question is what do you want from your car, if you just want the power, you have to realize there will be sacrifices, and there will be upgrades needed to put that power down efficiently. (I.e. LSD, Axles, upgraded clutch, and a way to get some decent meat on the tires). For the AT guys I dont know, I'm not an Auto expert but some upgrades are probably needed obviously.

My only defense was people saying the kits not worth all the hype.... well for people seeking that power level, it is worth the hype. For people seeking 10's, well, if you can drive, and ready to get all the supporting mods necessary, I'm sure it will do it.

As far as all the fuss about the air strip, I'm not sure, I was thousands of miles from it. Videos would be cool but really if I want the kit and the power I would have just got it myself. I dont need some air strip attack to tell me if I want it. If I look at a dyno, I can see the power, and the powerband. We can see the quality, the plumbing is above average as well as the craftsmanship. The turbo is strong, precision has been doing excellent turbo's for quite some time now. So if all the fuss is a few people didn't get some good runs in at an air strip event, I guess there car's werent up to the task. Maybe it was the driver, maybe it was some 3rd party components acting up? Methanol? E85? Tuning? Boost leak? Mis shifts? Tranmission problems? Not sure. I doubt it was the turbo or the plumbing (which is basically all the kit provides).

Individual results don't mean anything without all the information and details.
Quote:
Originally Posted by SIKH335 View Post
FYI bear I was at the event and I have been banned for the last two months kinda hard to hype myself if I'm banned.

But!!!!! You can quote me on saying the 6AT will be a beast and put the power down. Shit it's just money
Quote:
Originally Posted by GeorgiaTech335coupe View Post
Even without numbers, there is no denying that having a single in my car is ridiculously fun. I don't have to dyno to know that even at only 22psi (what I'm running now til that last few housekeeping items are complete), the car would absolutely crush my old setup of FBO+meth.

The sound of turbo alone just about justifies the price. The WTF looks I see on people's faces when I get on it is priceless. The sound makes you want to go WOT all the time.

But having said all that, I will have a before and after dyno comparison (same dyno, same gas, 1 month apart, all independent from the vendor), 1/4 mi slips (hopefully this Sunday, but I can almost guarantee my times will be horrible at first - car is much different to launch, more interested in trap speed for time being), 60-130 runs (just screwing around while troubleshooting, I was already getting a little over a second faster 60-100 than previous setup and that isn't even the area where the single will shine over stockers), and runs against some other ridiculously fast cars (low 10s GTR, 730whp GT500, and probably some other stock turbo n54s). I have 100s of before 1/4 mile slips for comparison as well and have seen many combinations of tunes/mods at my local track to make a fair comparison so we aren't comparing a different transmission and a track that regularly sets records with huge negative DAs with a track that is well known to be shit for track prep and is always well in the 1000 DA.
I think it goes without saying your reviews are excellent and you post results that nobody can deny. Good luck with it Hopefully you can put some haters to bed.
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      11-28-2012, 12:09 AM   #263
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this thread is worthless without vids ...

/troll
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      11-28-2012, 02:23 AM   #264
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Can I play soon?
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