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      02-02-2006, 08:46 PM   #1
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335 turbo vs NA engine: Pros and cons

There have been discussions of both a US spec 335 turbo and US 335 3.5L NA engine. What would be the pros and cons of both engines?
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      02-02-2006, 08:50 PM   #2
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For everyday driving, I'd say natural because of no lag...even if the turbo is well behaved (i.e. the new audi 2.0t), you will still get some unwanted lag throughout some parts of the power band.
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      02-02-2006, 08:52 PM   #3
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i drove the new 2.0t gti and there is no lag! plus it feels a lot faster then the e90 330i although its not.
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      02-02-2006, 08:54 PM   #4
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I'd say for turbo. Using the 2.0T as an example. #1, its a very peppy engine with little to no lag. #2, chipping the engine results in VERY high yields...high bang for the buck. Either way, it'll be an awesome car.
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      02-02-2006, 09:00 PM   #5
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I vote for NA, more control and the engine will typically last longer, plus you could always turbo charge the 3.5 liter for even more power if that's your thang
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      02-02-2006, 09:06 PM   #6
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how much is the 335i gonna be?
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      02-02-2006, 09:09 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by db17k
I vote for NA, more control and the engine will typically last longer, plus you could always turbo charge the 3.5 liter for even more power if that's your thang
You know how much that will cost for a turbo kit for a BMW... might as well get an M3...

I vote for turbo.... Better gas mileage and awesome torque feel... any ECU upgrade will eliminate lag....
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      02-02-2006, 09:12 PM   #8
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My turbo knowledge is limited so hopefully someone with more knowledge can correct me if anything I print here is incorrect.
  • Turbo
    • Pros:
      • Faster acceleration
      • More HP
      • 3L turbo more efficient (better gas mileage) than 3.5L NA for a given HP output
      • Can be easily chipped for more output
    • Cons:
      • Iíve heard turbos donít perform as well in warmer climates due to heavier air. This would be a con for a turbo in the south and west USA.
      • Turbo lag Ė though reduced by sequential twin turbo
      • More complicated engines = more costly repairs & greater chance of problems
  • NA
    • Pros:
      • No acceleration lag
      • Proven technology in NA engines
      • Works well in all climates
    • Cons:
      • Special NA engine built for US may have problems in first year
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      02-02-2006, 09:14 PM   #9
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It is true about turbos not performing well in hot climates. Its called "heat soak". Nothing a bigger intercooler cant fix.

Turbos are usually less money as well when a larger engine is offered.
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      02-02-2006, 09:34 PM   #10
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My knowledge is limited. Turbo chargers are the easy solution to add more horsepower and even more torque. The cons, as discussed are possible lag. I've heard several mentions of sequential turbo chargers. One for lower RPM's and one for higher RPM's. Hopefully, that should sort out the lag issues. Also, issues of throttle control may or may not exist. I had a turbo charged car, and I didn't feel much lag. varies from engine to engine. Also, there is the added weight invovled. I dont know which adds more weight 0.5L or turbo charger. In my opinion, NA engines sound better. But i love the torque of a turbo.
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      02-02-2006, 09:58 PM   #11
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NA all the way!!!

i'm not really that into the power and stuff, but more into the reliability part. Turbo really does screw up the car. I think BMW is more known for the reliability, and not throwing more hp in the car to get more attraction.
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      02-02-2006, 10:08 PM   #12
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I am coming from a heavily modified 1.8T Audi. I CANT WAIT to get into a NA car. The things you need to do to the engine and turbo to get hi hp/tq numbers are not worth it to me. You lose the warranty from the automaker and something always happens, trust me.
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      02-02-2006, 11:11 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseGuy
NA all the way!!!

i'm not really that into the power and stuff, but more into the reliability part. Turbo really does screw up the car. I think BMW is more known for the reliability, and not throwing more hp in the car to get more attraction.
BMW is known for reliability?
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      02-02-2006, 11:15 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kill4surf
I am coming from a heavily modified 1.8T Audi. I CANT WAIT to get into a NA car. The things you need to do to the engine and turbo to get hi hp/tq numbers are not worth it to me. You lose the warranty from the automaker and something always happens, trust me.
How heavily modified? Stock turbine w/ ECU flash? Transverse-mounted aftermarket turbine (stg 3 etc)?

There's a pretty big difference in power and engine response/lag between a 3.0+L sequential turbo and a 1.8L four pot with a single small turbo.
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      02-03-2006, 12:04 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
BMW is known for reliability?
The electronics may stink, but the engines are known to be extremely reliable.
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      02-03-2006, 02:19 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akhbhaat
How heavily modified? Stock turbine w/ ECU flash? Transverse-mounted aftermarket turbine (stg 3 etc)?

There's a pretty big difference in power and engine response/lag between a 3.0+L sequential turbo and a 1.8L four pot with a single small turbo.

four pot
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      02-03-2006, 03:17 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hotsand5
For everyday driving, I'd say natural because of no lag...even if the turbo is well behaved (i.e. the new audi 2.0t), you will still get some unwanted lag throughout some parts of the power band.
For everyday daily driving, a great N/A based small turbo application will feel just as good and more power than N/A. Most people just yell out "TURBO TRANSLATES INTO LAG!". Really, with the correct setup in mind, and proper tuning done with daily driving in mind(not a dragster big kit setup), it wouldn't really affect daily driving capability at all. Most won't really feel the difference anyway.

My main concern with turbo 335, maintenace. BMW's reliability isn't really good right now, how are they going to manage turbo application. I assume they really don't have much know-how into it as well as other manufacturers who are very much used to forced induction vehicles.

Remember guys, when bmw is putting these turbos in, they are not going to slap on a huge garret turbos in with turbo lag until 6500rpm and call it a day. Some of you really need to chill out, and be excited for what BMW can do with turbos in streetable performance oriented vehicle market. Lets see how they are going to manage "perfect balance" between N/A and F/I characteristics. Turbo application opens much more opportunities to gain power and upgradability too. I can't wait to see one from BMW. Please don't bring in a troublesome high-power N/A motor and start on recalls.
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      02-03-2006, 04:52 AM   #18
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Turbo lag with today's turbo technology is virtually a thing of the past. When it comes to FI or NA, you can't beat FI.
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      02-03-2006, 06:49 AM   #19
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I don't recall anyone mentioning oil/filter change intervals. I don't think BMW would recommend intervals of 15000 or more miles between changes with respect to turbocharged engines.
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      02-03-2006, 07:58 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChineseGuy
I think BMW is more known for the reliability, ....



Don't foget. BMW isn't exactly a novice with turbos. All the diesels across the pond are turbos. All they had to do was apply the SAME sequential turbo from the diesel to a petrol. ALSO, BMW is selling a 335 with turbo in Europe, so reliability isn't an issue.

As for turbos in warm climtes?..Yes, nothing an larger intercooler couldn't handle. The flip side about this "loss of HP" is the loss of HP NA engines experience @ higher elevations (thinner air). Turbo's aren't effected as badly.

The more I think about it the more I feel that the dealerships, the modders, the track junkies didn't want a turbo. Screw them! When does 5% of potential buyers get to decide what the other 95% of us want.
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      02-03-2006, 08:09 AM   #21
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Don't forget the fact that fundamentals of turbo charging a diesel and petrol engine might be similar, but characteristics could be different. unlike diesel, high revving petrol engines need more attention in reliability department. Something BMW should consider and I have confidence in that they will do just fine. (damn, I really got spoiled after I saw the bmw DVD.)
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      02-03-2006, 08:20 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom
The more I think about it the more I feel that the dealerships, the modders, the track junkies didn't want a turbo. Screw them! When does 5% of potential buyers get to decide what the other 95% of us want.
I'm a track junkie and I want a turbo. It's not like the 3 series is a particularly great car for closed circuit driving. Most of us who do track a (newer) 3 series use it primarily as a daily driver anyway. Might as well make it "cool," at least.
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