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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > BMW 335d Fuel Injector Problems



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      09-22-2013, 10:08 PM   #45
Vreimann
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So the short trips still cause soot, or the additive eliminated that too?

I've always been looking to improve the fuel but never found any scientific evidence. Maybe this is one way to look for it. I'll try cleaning my tips of the crud, which seems to be a way to tell if there is a problem (turned yellow before I needed new catalytic converters!) so maybe it does something.

What cetane booster do you use and in what dosage?
The additive reduces the soot on short trips but will never get rid of it. Our cooler temperatures will mean the car only gets up to proper temperatures pretty much when I get to work.

If you a search for what is listed below you will see some pictures that show a map of when NOx and Soot are produced. Typically this would be more in line with normal warm engine.

I suspect the issue with a lot of the sooting with a non modified diesel program would lie in the driving behaviour when the car is not up to temperature and on the throttle before the EGR closes.

Search This: Diesel Equivalence Ratio vs Air/ Fuel pictures
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      09-23-2013, 05:42 AM   #46
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The additive reduces the soot on short trips but will never get rid of it. Our cooler temperatures will mean the car only gets up to proper temperatures pretty much when I get to work.

If you a search for what is listed below you will see some pictures that show a map of when NOx and Soot are produced. Typically this would be more in line with normal warm engine.

I suspect the issue with a lot of the sooting with a non modified diesel program would lie in the driving behaviour when the car is not up to temperature and on the throttle before the EGR closes.

Search This: Diesel Equivalence Ratio vs Air/ Fuel pictures
There is no mention of additivation in the references you mention to search. However I found something that is more evidence based:
if you want more smoke, use cetane improver: The effect of fuel cetane improver on diesel pollutant emissions
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Abstract
A base fuel having a cetane number of 40.2 was split into nine batches. To eight of these batches, varying quantities of ignition improver were added, resulting in cetane numbers up to 62. The base fuel and each of the blends with ignition improver were used in a co-operative fuel research (CFR) diesel engine, and the exhaust emissions of NOx unburnt hydrocarbons (UHC) and smoke were measured, to ascertain the effect of varying cetane number on emissions when the basic chemical structure and physical properties of the fuel were almost unaltered. The results showed that the exhaust NOx progressively decreased with increasing cetane number, due to the reduction in ignition delay and amount of premixed fuel burnt. Similarly, the UHC decreased. However, the smoke increased due to the reduction in the amount of relatively smoke-free premixed fuel burnt.
This may all be dependent upon engine electronics, though, so its not up to us to help with additives, its up to BMW to make the engine work with the parameters given: pollution standards and fuel available.
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      09-23-2013, 05:52 AM   #47
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The additive reduces the soot on short trips but will never get rid of it. Our cooler temperatures will mean the car only gets up to proper temperatures pretty much when I get to work.
Here is an article that finds increased cetane, except in the first 10 seconds, increases smoke produced early in the warmup cycle especially in more temperate climate: The Effect of Fuel Cetane Quality on Light-Duty Diesel Performance

As to how soon the 335d comes up to operating temperature, older diesels certainly had this characteristic, but modern diesels have systems built in to raise the operating temperature quickly, mainly for emissions compliance, but also for driver comfort: there is an electronic circuit whether through the glow plugs or in a coolant preheater, I don't know, that increases the temperature quickly in premium diesel cars. I've experienced it myself when living in a cold climate.

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      09-23-2013, 06:52 AM   #48
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So the short trips still cause soot, or the additive eliminated that too?

I've always been looking to improve the fuel but never found any scientific evidence. Maybe this is one way to look for it. I'll try cleaning my tips of the crud, which seems to be a way to tell if there is a problem (turned yellow before I needed new catalytic converters!) so maybe it does something.

What cetane booster do you use and in what dosage?
Cetane boosters will bump PM a little at start up (Start up is where these boosters are useful) however the engine should warm faster and of course idle smoother. At operating temps (inside the combustion chamber) the booster has less of an effect.
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      09-23-2013, 09:54 PM   #49
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Hi PL,

I use an additive called 4+ Premium for summer and 4+ Arctic for winter.

Below is the link.

http://www.dieselservices.com/html/p...mium/index.cfm

MSDS is available on request but they are a bit slow to reply to e-mails.
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      09-23-2013, 11:27 PM   #50
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Hi PL,

I use an additive called 4+ Premium for summer and 4+ Arctic for winter.

Below is the link.

http://www.dieselservices.com/html/p...mium/index.cfm

MSDS is available on request but they are a bit slow to reply to e-mails.
Thanks. I looked at the web site. Seems like they are sincere enough. I would need to speak with one of their engineers to feel confident, though, as there is nothing in the web site that shows any data that the stuff actually works.
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      09-24-2013, 06:06 PM   #51
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Thanks. I looked at the web site. Seems like they are sincere enough. I would need to speak with one of their engineers to feel confident, though, as there is nothing in the web site that shows any data that the stuff actually works.
I only found their product by searching using a professors name at our university. His research is all about lubrication and his lubrication research product is one of the 4 items in the mix.

The university data I may be able to find as an Alumni, but if the other portions were completed by Sask Research Council I doubt that would be published unless they wanted to share it.

Just to have an almost unbiased trial, I got my friend to try it on his TDi Toureg just to see what effect he has considering he does a lot of city driving. His impressions are positive, much like mine have been. The only problem I have with the product, is the smell. When it warms up, I have to keep the dosing bottle in a bag to reduce the fumes. It is very strong and the warmer it is the worse the smell.
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      09-24-2013, 08:24 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Vreimann View Post
Hi PL,

I use an additive called 4+ Premium for summer and 4+ Arctic for winter.

Below is the link.

http://www.dieselservices.com/html/p...mium/index.cfm

MSDS is available on request but they are a bit slow to reply to e-mails.
Ask for the MSDS..
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      09-24-2013, 08:31 PM   #53
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Ask for the MSDS..
Really slow on the e-mails. Probably easier to drive over to their store but I never make the time.
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      09-25-2013, 11:55 AM   #54
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The SES light came on yesterday. I hope it's not the fuel injectors again. It seems like the SES light comes on every 15k miles now.
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      09-25-2013, 05:15 PM   #55
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The SES light came on yesterday. I hope it's not the fuel injectors again. It seems like the SES light comes on every 15k miles now.
let us know...try to scan the code if you can.
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      09-26-2013, 12:01 AM   #56
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Originally Posted by Vreimann View Post
I only found their product by searching using a professors name at our university. His research is all about lubrication and his lubrication research product is one of the 4 items in the mix.

The university data I may be able to find as an Alumni, but if the other portions were completed by Sask Research Council I doubt that would be published unless they wanted to share it.

Just to have an almost unbiased trial, I got my friend to try it on his TDi Toureg just to see what effect he has considering he does a lot of city driving. His impressions are positive, much like mine have been. The only problem I have with the product, is the smell. When it warms up, I have to keep the dosing bottle in a bag to reduce the fumes. It is very strong and the warmer it is the worse the smell.
Do you remember details about the data? What was positive about your friend's experience?

Yes, and MSDS would allow us to know what ingredients are used but perhaps not the concentrations.

Thanks.
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      09-26-2013, 06:54 AM   #57
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let us know...try to scan the code if you can.
Made an appointment for next week. Will let you know. It's good I have the CPO warranty until 100k miles. If the SES keeps on turning on, I will have to consider selling this car before the warranty is over.
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      09-26-2013, 06:55 PM   #58
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Do you remember details about the data? What was positive about your friend's experience?

Yes, and MSDS would allow us to know what ingredients are used but perhaps not the concentrations.

Thanks.
Well he drives his like he stole it and he says he has been getting an extra 60 miles per tank. Not sure if this is from the additive alone or the changing of our diesel now that fall/ winter is setting in. I love our winter diesel because it is very clean.
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      10-03-2013, 09:05 AM   #59
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Made an appointment for next week. Will let you know. It's good I have the CPO warranty until 100k miles. If the SES keeps on turning on, I will have to consider selling this car before the warranty is over.
Dropped off my car this morning due to the SES light. The BMW service agent just called me up to let me know that the diesel exhaust pump has failed (it's basically the urea pump)

They ordered the part, which will arrive tomorrow and it will take them the entire day to install it.

FYI, I also found out that with my CPO warranty, there is a $50 deductible, which no one bothered to tell me when I was buying my CPO BMW. But $50 is not that bad if you consider the parts and labor.
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      10-03-2013, 10:06 AM   #60
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...FYI, I also found out that with my CPO warranty, there is a $50 deductible, which no one bothered to tell me when I was buying my CPO BMW. But $50 is not that bad if you consider the parts and labor.
I see you're in CT - which is a California emissions state. If your car has fewer than 7/70K miles and you qualify, the emissions system should be covered for free. Worth a call (BMWNA is somewhat pissy about this) to your Service Advisor to save $50.

Just checked my "Service & Warranty" booklet, and the SCR pump is covered (if under 7/70K).
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      10-03-2013, 10:12 AM   #61
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I see you're in CT - which is a California emissions state. If your car has fewer than 7/70K miles and you qualify, the emissions system should be covered for free. Worth a call (BMWNA is somewhat pissy about this) to your Service Advisor to save $50.

Just checked my "Service & Warranty" booklet, and the SCR pump is covered (if under 7/70K).
I will check it out. I currently have 64k miles and the car is only 4 years old.
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      10-03-2013, 10:22 AM   #62
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I will check it out. I currently have 64k miles and the car is only 4 years old.
Called up the BMW rep and he said that he will check it out. If the warranty book says 7/70k, then he will not charge me the $50 deductible.

Thanks for the info.
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      10-03-2013, 12:09 PM   #63
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Did they mention anything about replacing the tank also, like one of the other 335D owners mentioned?

Yea, $50 deductable is part of the CPO Warranty Program. However, if the same issue comes back, they can't charge you the $50 again for a 2nd, 3rd,..etc. visit.
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      10-03-2013, 01:36 PM   #64
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Did they mention anything about replacing the tank also, like one of the other 335D owners mentioned?

Yea, $50 deductable is part of the CPO Warranty Program. However, if the same issue comes back, they can't charge you the $50 again for a 2nd, 3rd,..etc. visit.
They said that they will replace the pump as well as the tank.
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      10-04-2013, 08:01 AM   #65
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They said that they will replace the pump as well as the tank.
I have had 3 to 4 SES lights in about 2 weeks after getting the intercooler charge pipe (red ones) changed. Brought the car back and it took almost 6 weeks for the urea tank and pump to arrive. I got the car back 2 weeks ago and its been solid since.
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      10-04-2013, 09:31 AM   #66
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I have had 3 to 4 SES lights in about 2 weeks after getting the intercooler charge pipe (red ones) changed. Brought the car back and it took almost 6 weeks for the urea tank and pump to arrive. I got the car back 2 weeks ago and its been solid since.
Good to hear. I just hope all the problems happen while under the CPO warranty. This way everything will be fixed and I should be fine for about 50k miles after it reached 100k miles. I am happy with the performance of the car and the great gas mileage, but with all the problems I had so far, I might have to sell it before it reaches 100k miles.
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