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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Wagner Tuning 335d Intercooler Kit Ready to Ship?



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      03-25-2013, 02:50 PM   #243
Puerto Rican 335d
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Email carsten wagner and play it safe
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      03-25-2013, 02:52 PM   #244
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      03-26-2013, 05:21 PM   #245
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Lemans play it safe email carsten
Thanks Puerto,
I like to participate in the debate to give you some info and which i have found when built my Dracer.

At first sorry my pour pour english . I know that you are understanding my words and writing somehow, but hope that i managed to wrote this the way that there is a point in the way i ment it to be and i'm not making my self a dumbass. So be gentle fellows!

I have a euro 535D with the highest x35D hp/torque readings what I have found on the Internet. I have a straight pipe and car is running max 2.5bar of boost.
The most important mod there is at this point is that all of you should be concerned about is over pressure. Our cars are able to handle +/-0.4bar tolerances from asking pressure. After that comes limp mode and you have to restart your cars to get it back to normal again.
And that's not the biggest problem there.
It's not healthy for turbos and either way those are not working correctly if there is too much chargepressure.
Reason for that is that there is too tiny airline in the wastegate and it does not have the possibility to let the air run out enough, because it is rated to operate only with the factory program. So here come overboost and it's problems.

There are only two options to fix this situation. Either you unplug the turbos of the car to your hands and work on the interior of the original wastegate for a larger metal outlet, or close hole thing from working (valve which operates by the pressure) and attach a new bigger separate wastegate.

This way you are doing it "healthy" right from the start. And now before you drive your vehicle to reprogram/tune specialist (dont buy those universal tuned x35D programs, because every car has life of its own so you need to do it on dyno and a few road test with guy who knows what he is doing) it might be good thing to think about getting a bigger intercooler also, because now you have all the mods needed to get everything out from your injectors and turbos.

I have been playing with turbo cars and aftermarket intercoolers for a while now and i know that things you are talking about here are important. But allmost always it's not rocket science when you are planning right size ICs. If you are using bigger IC than oem and make it to optimum plant and simple tubing then its most likely have a better cooling and flowing powers and in most cases lower boost trop than orginal have also. Either way boost trop is normally so very minimum that it dosnt efeckt anything.
But i also understand when you are buying expencive bolt-on ic kit that you are entitled to know all of its working features. Even there is not (big) difference in real world hp/torque numbers if it has been done by wagner germany or copy #ucker china.
It's about size, location and simple silicone tubing that matters most...
My opinion is that X35D have too small IC after when your tune/car is making over 2.1bar of boost. But on the otherhand and if you want to play it safe there is not such thing that over cooling/flowing intercooler. And it's always healthier to get same temperature than outside as near as possible. But it is the point when you floor your car and get hotter than ~60 celsius boostair temperatures when you are starting really loosing you torque numbers. And things goes worse and worse very quick after that...

Last edited by LeMansBlau; 03-26-2013 at 06:20 PM.
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      03-27-2013, 05:58 AM   #246
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So you got the performance packeage of the I6 twin turbo that I beleive is also given the 335d Coupe which I believe is 286 hp with 450 lbs/torque COOL!!! Dont worry about your English Im bilingual also but at times i screw up, the guys here wont harass u, this forum tends to listen more so than other forums. Any information is great and as I read you have given us MORE light than usual specially with the BLOW OFF valve issue than anyone here, I believe you touched something that most of us had forgotten or even mentioned , you will hear soon form other like DD, Greek Ron1n etc which on hand have some knowledge of these DIESELS , we are in and INFANCY stage unlike you guys have already GROWN UP withe DIESELS!! Gracias for your input!!
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      03-27-2013, 05:43 PM   #247
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Hi,

I have a euro 335D tuned without dpf and I will install Wagner intercooler next week.
I have a problem with my car when I accelerate. All is going great but when I reach 220 Km/h, it seems that the car is running into limp mode.
My tuner told me about a sensor...
Do you think that boost pressure is too high? Is it going to improve with the Wagner IC?

Thanks for your answers.
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      03-27-2013, 05:53 PM   #248
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I think a good place to start is to have a conversation with your tuner, and ask what he changed to achieve your performance gains. There are too many variables to guess on the underlying cause of your limp mode, but your tuner should be able to address the issue, since it's his tune on the car while your limp mode issues are occurring.
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      03-27-2013, 06:30 PM   #249
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quick answer, because typing with my phone...

You have that same problem which i wrote there earlyer. It's all about over boosting, because your tuner haven't change asking pressure and the tolerance between it and actual pressure is 0.4bar before limp mode.

So Wagner ic isn't going to make a lot difference about that situation. But you could get about 390-410hp with orginal wastegate when you change asking pressure a littlebit higher (2.1bar should do the trick there), but that is going to be the final point where you have to think to make that wastegate mod to go futher.

It's very typically that tuner make dpf removed tunes which gives you about 370hp and forget/do not even know that it's going to cause that over boost issue. So after 220-230km/h boost raised above it's limits, because charge pressure raised that boost more than you car is capable to "eat" and wastegate to let go. If i remember correctly there is 1.8bar pressure from factory...

Have you check live data of your car? How much asking pressure and how much actual pressure when whole open throttle at those high speeds and 5. or 6. gear?
How much rail pressure? And how much charge air temperature?

Sorry my english again...

Edit. Your tuner is talking about pressure/map sensor which is supervising that pressure stay on the inside of its limits.

Last edited by LeMansBlau; 03-27-2013 at 11:09 PM.
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      03-28-2013, 09:39 AM   #250
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Thanks a lot for your help.

I will run some tests to see if it happens in 5 or 6 gear. I think it's 5 gear, and my tuner said that if I have to upshift earlier to avoid this over boost pressure issue.

My tuner wanted a safe map by limiting the torque on the gearbox at low revs. And may be, he set a low value of asking pressure. I will contact him and keep you updated.

My car is a E92 version built in december 2006 and my gearbox is a ZF 6HP26 (the same as yours). The new E92 models have a ZF 6HP28 gearbox whiwh supports more torque. How can you reach 400 - 410 hp without affecting the gearbox?

I don't have tool to check live data. Which tool should I take?

I will post some vids of my car soon..
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      03-28-2013, 10:11 AM   #251
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I sent an email to ECU PROGRAM they're in facebook also, here is the email I sent them:

We heard of you guys and posted remarks on facebook and some of us are interested, Im running RENNtech Flash with WAGNER IC Im getting 311 whp and around 450 lbs/torque on the wheels Im interested on and intake and or DPF removal lets us know thru Bimmer fest or e90post.com. Gracias
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      03-28-2013, 11:36 AM   #252
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmc973 View Post
Thanks a lot for your help.

I will run some tests to see if it happens in 5 or 6 gear. I think it's 5 gear, and my tuner said that if I have to upshift earlier to avoid this over boost pressure issue.

My tuner wanted a safe map by limiting the torque on the gearbox at low revs. And may be, he set a low value of asking pressure. I will contact him and keep you updated.

My car is a E92 version built in december 2006 and my gearbox is a ZF 6HP26 (the same as yours). The new E92 models have a ZF 6HP28 gearbox whiwh supports more torque. How can you reach 400 - 410 hp without affecting the gearbox?

I don't have tool to check live data. Which tool should I take?

I will post some vids of my car soon..
If you upshift earlier you might avoid limp mode at those speeds, but then same problem is moved to upper speeds. It all because exthaust manifold pressure and heat pre turbos. Thats why turbo boosting more, but there is no room for all that air and its clogged without bigger wastegate airlines, so boost pressure raises and when that happens also exthaus manifold pressure raise and heats too much.

Our 6hp26 handles over 1000nm if driver know how to drive it. I have dynoed almost 450hp with my car and to got proper results i have been running 3 different dynos. It's how you use all that torque... I know that my car is not going to handle everyday stand still full throttle launches. And it's really safest to use whole open throttle only after 2000rpm's. But i have use my tune almost 1year/30 000km now with no faults or brake anything. My car is driven 220000km now. And still i use all that power everyday especially high rews launches. My car pulls now quite fast for example 80km/h-200km/h. It's very near side by side with my friend tuned M5, but after 180km/h M5 take it's place. But thats a diesel car i'm racing against 530hp M-monster! So i think that i'm a winner there also!
I understand your tuner that he dos not want unhappy clients to blame him when gearbox brakes.

Best tool to check livedata is BMW INPA. Use google to get more info.

If u have Android or iPhone phone you could read faul codes and live data fast and easy with app called BMWhat. Google that also.

Anyway you need a proper OBD II tool. Ebay is the best place to look at for...

Last edited by LeMansBlau; 03-28-2013 at 12:26 PM.
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      03-28-2013, 01:40 PM   #253
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMansBlau View Post
If you upshift earlier you might avoid limp mode at those speeds, but then same problem is moved to upper speeds. It all because exthaust manifold pressure and heat pre turbos. Thats why turbo boosting more, but there is no room for all that air and its clogged without bigger wastegate airlines, so boost pressure raises and when that happens also exthaus manifold pressure raise and heats too much.

Our 6hp26 handles over 1000nm if driver know how to drive it. I have dynoed almost 450hp with my car and to got proper results i have been running 3 different dynos. It's how you use all that torque... I know that my car is not going to handle everyday stand still full throttle launches. And it's really safest to use whole open throttle only after 2000rpm's. But i have use my tune almost 1year/30 000km now with no faults or brake anything. My car is driven 220000km now. And still i use all that power everyday especially high rews launches. My car pulls now quite fast for example 80km/h-200km/h. It's very near side by side with my friend tuned M5, but after 180km/h M5 take it's place. But thats a diesel car i'm racing against 530hp M-monster! So i think that i'm a winner there also!
I understand your tuner that he dos not want unhappy clients to blame him when gearbox brakes.

Best tool to check livedata is BMW INPA. Use google to get more info.

If u have Android or iPhone phone you could read faul codes and live data fast and easy with app called BMWhat. Google that also.

Anyway you need a proper OBD II tool. Ebay is the best place to look at for...

PLEASE continue to post information! And - please become an active member here. We need your knowledge!
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      03-28-2013, 01:56 PM   #254
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yes we NEED guys like this one to help us out here is the response message from ECUPROGRAM to me:

Hi Axel, Yes, we can do the Stage 2 for DPF removal. Since you are in Puerto Rico, the best way is to send the ECU to us in Calgary, AB - Canada.
but you need the ECU in stock form because RENNETECH sometimes does encrypting on their tuned ecu (to protect from stealing other tuners). If you sent me the ECU with RENNTECH tune, I won't able to read / tune / write it so you need to ask RENNTECH to put the stock file back into the ecu.

Con todo respeto

Miguel
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      03-28-2013, 02:07 PM   #255
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LeMansBlau View Post

If u have Android or iPhone phone you could read faul codes and live data fast and easy with app called BMWhat. Google that also.
I googled BMWhat, and the website states it works for model years 2007-2008. That makes me worry that it doesn't work with our DDM's in the U.S., because we have the newer encrypted version, as opposed to the EU, which has the unencrypted version. I'm thinking of the tuners in the EU that can tune via OBD-II, whereas in the U.S. those tuning solutions don't work because of our DDM.

The website offers a 'lite' version of the app to test if it works on your car, so I'm going to give it a shot, just in case we get lucky and it does work.
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      03-28-2013, 04:14 PM   #256
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Quote:
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Sorry my english again...
LeMansBlau, englantisi on erinomainen, your english is great. Please keep on adding to this discussion, it is very informative...
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      03-28-2013, 04:16 PM   #257
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
Hi Axel, Yes, we can do the Stage 2 for DPF removal. Since you are in Puerto Rico, the best way is to send the ECU to us in Calgary, AB - Canada.
but you need the ECU in stock form because RENNETECH sometimes does encrypting on their tuned ecu (to protect from stealing other tuners). If you sent me the ECU with RENNTECH tune, I won't able to read / tune / write it so you need to ask RENNTECH to put the stock file back into the ecu.
Thanks Axel!
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      03-29-2013, 07:55 AM   #258
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Originally Posted by DieselDiner View Post
I googled BMWhat, and the website states it works for model years 2007-2008. That makes me worry that it doesn't work with our DDM's in the U.S., because we have the newer encrypted version, as opposed to the EU, which has the unencrypted version. I'm thinking of the tuners in the EU that can tune via OBD-II, whereas in the U.S. those tuning solutions don't work because of our DDM.

The website offers a 'lite' version of the app to test if it works on your car, so I'm going to give it a shot, just in case we get lucky and it does work.
Can't get it to work, so apparently we're SOL.
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      03-29-2013, 08:00 AM   #259
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Spoke to Lenny he has a something for us in deleting the DPF so STAND BY I have a MURLANDER working on this but I will not disclose his name!!!! You guys figure it out

Finn no problemo anything to help a fellow "D"
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Last edited by Puerto Rican 335d; 03-29-2013 at 08:01 AM. Reason: more info
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      03-30-2013, 02:11 PM   #260
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Installed my wagner on wednesday but i can only take it to dino until nest week...
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      04-01-2013, 06:06 AM   #261
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teka tell the people here how that IC works in your car NO MORE turbo lag as before the car runs wayyy better than before go ahead and give your insight on this
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      04-30-2013, 03:03 PM   #262
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guys i only found this thread and well tempted to install the Wagner IC...
remap is planned in may (with possible DPF deletion)
still got few other things to buy for my car before that so keep the news coming
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      04-30-2013, 05:55 PM   #263
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Have been monitoring intake temps with OEM IC. Not much higher than ambient.

Idle: ~2-5 F above ambient
Hard accel: initally ~15F above ambient but comes down quickly as car gains speed (and airflow)
Decel: ambient to 2F BELOW ambient.

Conclusion: OEM IC doing a good job...will know more this weekend after HPDE specifically heat soak
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      05-01-2013, 07:47 AM   #264
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Simply335 go ahead and buy you wont regret it trust me on this ok!!
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