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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N57 / M57 Turbo Diesel Discussions - 335d > Wagner Tuning 335d Intercooler Kit Ready to Ship?



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      03-03-2013, 06:15 AM   #177
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Good post TDIwyse, very valid info.
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      03-03-2013, 08:26 AM   #178
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TDIwyse View Post
I actually thought the OEM intercooler was pretty good, even in a highly modified 335d. Here's some data that shows comparisons of BT recorded data of the IAT (post intercooler) for pulls done with the OEM intercooler and with an initial setup of water injection, and then the final setup with water injection.

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=59

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...1&postcount=62

The OEM setup on a pull on the road (not a dyno, which will have much less air passing over the air to air intercooler than in real world applications) doesn't leave a lot on the table for a highly modified car. And the water injection was able to bring the IAT's below ambient for a time (something no intercooler can do).

Regarding the dyno data provided, since it's on different days, with different fuel, with different DPF loading conditions, is the few hp differences statistically significant? For example, here's a test of the same car, same day, same fuel on several dyno's ... all different results.

http://www.turbomagazine.com/tech/03...ine_dyno_dash/

Regarding the mpg impacts ... my car at 70 mph on level ground isn't using any boost. The flow rate of air moving through the intercooler is pretty low in this state, and the IAT's are basically ambient levels, so I'm not sure what laws of physics could possibly be involved to explain the radical increase in thermodynamic efficiency being described.

Not trying to ruffel any feathers, just trying to give some insight and quantifiable data that was collected in the past.

Peace fellow diesel lovers :-)
What changed from the prior posts where you stated that the factory i/c needed improvement? More info gathered?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=29

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=45
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      03-03-2013, 12:27 PM   #179
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Will have my car Dyno'd next Saturday.
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      03-03-2013, 02:31 PM   #180
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DieselDiner View Post
What changed from the prior posts where you stated that the factory i/c needed improvement? More info gathered?

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...3&postcount=29

http://www.bimmerfest.com/forums/sho...9&postcount=45
Well, there's always room for improvement :-) If one is planning to track their car a lot, and didn't want to use water injection, then heat soak of the smaller OEM intercooler could become problematic.

Further testing showed, in 98F temps, about 35-40F increase in IAT's for a full fuel run, with the OEM intercooler. Reading about other examples of turbo diesel cars (VW's for example) showed substantially higher increases in IAT's from OEM intercoolers. So comparatively, the BMW OEM unit seemed pretty good. But "good" is a relative term, and depending on the intended application there are "better" options than OEM.

Hopefully the #'s for the OEM unit were helpful for those considering the intercooler upgrade.
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      03-03-2013, 02:37 PM   #181
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@ TDI I think you've been one of the most knowledgeable and unbiased commenters on this thread. I would like to ask your opinion. Based on your assessments what do you think of the value proposition of a $600 intercooler for a guy who is planning on tracking 1-3 times a year. And that is in light of the relatively good OEM intercooler versus the Wagner And your associated data
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      03-03-2013, 03:02 PM   #182
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I would expect the Wagner to be "better" while you are on the track and flogging the vehicle. I don't know how much "better". I would love to see someone with a BT do before and after readings of IAT's (OEM to Wagner) for controlled operating conditions on the road.

The mpg claims though I can't figure out. I would expect since you've added more weight to the car (I'm assuming the Wagner being heavier) that under steady state driving conditions where the car is loafing along, you would expect to see an extremely small degradation in mpg's due to the very slight increase in weight. Although this would be so small it would be difficult to tease out of the data.
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      03-03-2013, 03:08 PM   #183
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It all comes down to Wagner and their results who told me on Feb 23 that they'd have them in 2 weeks. Giving them a couple of extra days puts it to March 11.

At this point I'd be surprised if they have results for us on that day.
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      03-03-2013, 04:30 PM   #184
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MPG shouldn't be that much of a mystery it's just a matter of degree colder air equals more air same amount of fuel equals more power for a given fuel flow. Same concept behind the water injection just not as drastic
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      03-03-2013, 06:20 PM   #185
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
MPG shouldn't be that much of a mystery it's just a matter of degree colder air equals more air same amount of fuel equals more power for a given fuel flow. Same concept behind the water injection just not as drastic
To a point. But the data I've logged shows that the OEM intercooler is providing ~ ambient IAT's at highway speeds...
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      03-03-2013, 11:51 PM   #186
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Its also possible the OEM is somewhat flow restrictive?
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      03-04-2013, 06:38 AM   #187
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ok amigos the OEM ic is small lightweight made out of plastic and a little restritive and DOWNSIDE after two runs YOU will loose HP I have proven it in my dyno runs!! the WAGNER IC is a bit larger better air flow and HEAVY somewhat 40 lbs but is a PnP unit with little trimming on the front part area of the radiator. As far as MPG gains based on this last weekend my son drove the car for about 3 days and at half tank it was marking 236 miles on odometer WAYYY better than anytime before, i asked my son how the car felt and he said an ANIMAL he averaged speeds of 80-100 mph darting thru traffic so yes as TurboEd from another from has atested me there will be some gains in MPG, TE is getting around 45-47 mpg at 70 mph in Florida. The power is there at any given time the car accelerates from 60 to 130 like NOTHING, mind you i have the RENNtech Flash so Im cheating here
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      03-04-2013, 09:35 AM   #188
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Quote:
Originally Posted by frackje View Post
Will have my car Dyno'd next Saturday.
Hi Frackje,

What was your power issue with your car?
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      03-04-2013, 09:47 AM   #189
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Quote:
Originally Posted by taibanl View Post
Its also possible the OEM is somewhat flow restrictive?
The Wagner looks like it should have lower restriction for large air flow. But at 4500 rpm's at full boost the intercooler will be flowing ~500% more air than at hwy rpm's at 0 boost. If the OEM intercooler can handle that much air flow, I wouldn't expect it be taxed at steady state highway speeds. But I don't have data to quantify the restriction.
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      03-04-2013, 09:54 AM   #190
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
ok amigos the OEM ic is small lightweight made out of plastic and a little restritive and DOWNSIDE after two runs YOU will loose HP I have proven it in my dyno runs!! the WAGNER IC is a bit larger better air flow and HEAVY somewhat 40 lbs but is a PnP unit with little trimming on the front part area of the radiator. As far as MPG gains based on this last weekend my son drove the car for about 3 days and at half tank it was marking 236 miles on odometer WAYYY better than anytime before, i asked my son how the car felt and he said an ANIMAL he averaged speeds of 80-100 mph darting thru traffic so yes as TurboEd from another from has atested me there will be some gains in MPG, TE is getting around 45-47 mpg at 70 mph in Florida. The power is there at any given time the car accelerates from 60 to 130 like NOTHING, mind you i have the RENNtech Flash so Im cheating here
I'm glad you're happy with the Wagner unit. I hope it gives you many years of enjoyment. It seems like a well conceived and executed product.

The ~45 mpgs at 70mph is right inline with what I observe in the non-winter months on flat roads with the OEM intercooler. As of yet I havent' seen any scientifically controlled data that isolates other variables that could easily be accounting for the qualitative assessments of the intercoolers impacts to power/efficiency. I look forward to seeing that type of data.
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      03-04-2013, 01:27 PM   #191
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kmc973 View Post
Hi Frackje,

What was your power issue with your car?
The turbo actuator .
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      03-05-2013, 07:28 AM   #192
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Gracias TDi hey BTW did you see the new VW Wagon its stunning!! its on germna boost
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      03-09-2013, 11:24 AM   #193
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Puerto Rican 335d View Post
Gracias TDi hey BTW did you see the new VW Wagon its stunning!! its on germna boost
Hey amigo,

any longer term numbers on your MPGees? Simply for curiousity sake, I would like to know.

Gracias.
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      03-11-2013, 06:17 AM   #194
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thanks for inquiring I will be frank with you as far as city MPGs they are still the same as far as Hway MPGs it has increased Id say by 10% approximately I say this because I live on an island and it is very difficult to keep at certain speeds cause there are a lot of ASS WIPES that take over the correct lanes so I used the onboard computer to dictate my MPG but at the end I used the manual calculations, since must of my driving is in the city there is always a plus and minus issue therefore my MPGS will vary and end up being City MPGs and thats sucks,

The Wagner IC has improve my accelaration process the car is an animal from 60-130 yes you read that right 60-130 even my girlfriend noticed the car doesnt GRUNT like before and moves so easily w/o hardly no stress towards the high MPHs, if you question me if I would buy again id say YES I would buy it again, you guys up there will reap more benefits than I will so go for it, ICs for 335i's go anywhere from $800-$1200 around many tuners so i beleive ours is nicely priced.
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      03-11-2013, 12:14 PM   #195
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreekboyD View Post
It all comes down to Wagner and their results who told me on Feb 23 that they'd have them in 2 weeks. Giving them a couple of extra days puts it to March 11.

At this point I'd be surprised if they have results for us on that day.
Why I have the feeling we will not see any data. As of now, I have personally not seen anything that shows Wagner IC is worth the money.
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      03-11-2013, 12:19 PM   #196
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I just emailed Carsten asking if there's an update.
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      03-11-2013, 05:32 PM   #197
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And here was his reply:

Quote:
Hello John,

i am on my Way back to Germany. I will see tomorrow what the R&D Department figured out.

mit freundlichen Grüßen / best Regards
Carsten Wagner
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      03-13-2013, 06:15 AM   #198
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I hope I can get bthose quotes so I can get Lenny to reconfigure the ECU AGAIN!! LOL
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