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      11-20-2012, 06:05 PM   #23
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The strategy for the Z2 now becomes the Z3 as BMW resort back to the well-received name plate , Z3 will also replace Z4 and resort back to a folding soft-top roof. A Z4 replacement , entitled Z5 will move up one segment yet retain a folding hard top.
Can you clarify something, Scott?

Z1 = compact FWD soft top roadster
Z2 = compact RWD soft top roadster (cancelled)
Z3 = small RWD soft top roadster
Z5 = mid-size RWD hardtop roadster

Is that accurate?

If that's the case, then the Z2 wasn't cancelled per se, correct? It was just rebadged as the Z3, yes?

Also, why aren't these getting an even-numbered designation like all the other coupes? Z2 would be the compact FWD roadster, Z4 would be the small RWD roadster, and Z6 would be the upmarket hardtop roadster? Are you simply worried about diluting the existing Z4 brand?
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      11-20-2012, 06:28 PM   #24
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Would be nice to see this become reality!
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      11-20-2012, 06:31 PM   #25
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So many new models being talked about these days.. I just wish we'd actually see some arrive in their finished form. X4 seems to have been discussed for years, 3GT & 4GC seem to have been testing for years... SCOTT has also now mentioned the X7 a few times, and now the Z1, Z3 and Z5 as well. Chuck in the possible other 1-er variants and the i3 and i8 that have been doing the concept car rounds for years, and the possible i4 concept...

.. there's nearly as many new models on the drawing board as there are limited edition M3's!!!
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      11-20-2012, 07:21 PM   #26
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NA V10 in a lightweight M10 beast please
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      11-20-2012, 07:32 PM   #27
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Oh, rumours of a BMW supercar at some stage in the future...

... I'll believe it when it's finished its FEP.
+1 just false hopes to keep enthusiasts buying BMW. BMW won't have an M8 built on i8 platform because it will take sales away from the the i8 once it is BMWs flagship car, the main draw of the i8 is that it is BMW's flagship (supercar if you wish)
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      11-20-2012, 08:13 PM   #28
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Oh, rumours of a BMW supercar at some stage in the future...

... I'll believe it when it's finished its FEP.
This.

BMW has been around for almost a century and never had their own supercar.

Not holding my breath.
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      11-20-2012, 09:48 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cdnrockies
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Originally Posted by Matski View Post
Oh, rumours of a BMW supercar at some stage in the future...

... I'll believe it when it's finished its FEP.
This.

BMW has been around for almost a century and never had their own supercar.

Not holding my breath.
That's what the i8 is for lol...although in hybrid form.

Super car none the less.

I certainly wouldn't complain if they through a reworked S63Tu engine in it that can easily make 600hp+ to compete against the ZR1
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      11-20-2012, 11:10 PM   #30
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About time! Please do us proud, BMW.
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      11-21-2012, 12:12 AM   #31
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That's what the i8 is for lol...although in hybrid form.

Super car none the less.

I certainly wouldn't complain if they through a reworked S63Tu engine in it that can easily make 600hp+ to compete against the ZR1


This is what a hybrid supercar looks like.



The i8 is nowhere near supercar status although it looks to be a solid new offering from BMW.
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      11-21-2012, 08:19 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The strategy for the Z2 now becomes the Z3 as BMW resort back to the well-received name plate , Z3 will also replace Z4 and resort back to a folding soft-top roof. A Z4 replacement , entitled Z5 will move up one segment yet retain a folding hard top.
I hate the idea of the Z roadsters being badged with odd numbers: Z1, Z3, Z5. It would be more consistent to not return to the past and instead continue the even number strategy started with the Z4, which would be: Z2 (entry-level FWD Mini brother), Z4 (even though it would become more downrange, more affordable and go back to soft top), Z6 (Z4 going more upmarket), which would by the way leave an empty number 8 box for a potential range topping new Z8 with V8 engine to rival the Merc SL.

Maybe it goes down to BMW having a problem with the Z2 being FWD while they promised that only the "1" range would get FWD, hence Z1 instead of Z2... But that would still be much more consistent than naming ALL BMW roadsters with odd numbers (Z1, Z3, Z5) while their whole current strategy is to clearly separate the odd-numbered "classical range" (1, 3, 5, 7 Series, X3, X5) from the even-numbered "sporty/coupé range" (2, 4, 6 Series, X4, X6, Z4), they even kill the "M3 Coupé" moniker in order to have a clearly stratified and legible range! And yet Z1, Z3, Z5?? It's just inconsistent as roadsters are definitely more "sporty/coupé" models than "classical" models...

Last edited by advantage20; 11-21-2012 at 08:28 AM.
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      11-21-2012, 09:37 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20
Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
The strategy for the Z2 now becomes the Z3 as BMW resort back to the well-received name plate , Z3 will also replace Z4 and resort back to a folding soft-top roof. A Z4 replacement , entitled Z5 will move up one segment yet retain a folding hard top.
I hate the idea of the Z roadsters being badged with odd numbers: Z1, Z3, Z5. It would be more consistent to not return to the past and instead continue the even number strategy started with the Z4, which would be: Z2 (entry-level FWD Mini brother), Z4 (even though it would become more downrange, more affordable and go back to soft top), Z6 (Z4 going more upmarket), which would by the way leave an empty number 8 box for a potential range topping new Z8 with V8 engine to rival the Merc SL.

Maybe it goes down to BMW having a problem with the Z2 being FWD while they promised that only the "1" range would get FWD, hence Z1 instead of Z2... But that would still be much more consistent than naming ALL BMW roadsters with odd numbers (Z1, Z3, Z5) while their whole current strategy is to clearly separate the odd-numbered "classical range" (1, 3, 5, 7 Series, X3, X5) from the even-numbered "sporty/coup range" (2, 4, 6 Series, X4, X6, Z4), they even kill the "M3 Coup" moniker in order to have a clearly stratified and legible range! And yet Z1, Z3, Z5?? It's just inconsistent as roadsters are definitely more "sporty/coup" models than "classical" models...
+1

1: mini sedan/hatch/GT
2: mini coupe/GC
3: compact sedan/hatch/GT
4: compact coupe/GC
5: mid-size sedan/hatch/GT
6: mid-size coupe/GC
7: full-size sedan
8: full-size coupe (2 door version of 7, successor to 8 series (E31), competitor to Mercedes CL)
9: (future) Super luxury sedan to bridge gap to Rolls Royce
10: (future) Super luxury coupe style gran turismo(?)

X1, 3, 5, 7: same as above except of course SAV

X2, 4, 6, 8: SAC

Z2: FWD mini roadster
Z4: compact RWD roadster with softtop
Z6: successor to current Z4
Z8: same as before, Mercedes SL competitor

Or Z1, Z3, Z5, Z7.

I understand trying to keep FWD cars with number 1, but that makes the whole "Z" line up go against "odd number: sedan and even: coupe".
But I guess "Z" itself means coupe/roadster.
Whichever they decide, I hope they choose wisely so we don't have to see another change down the road.
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      11-21-2012, 10:57 AM   #34
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With the success of the MINI Coupe and Roadster BMW and MINI see fit to further expand MINI from a design angle and broaden the cars visually.
The next interpretation of the MINI Coupe and Roadster will feature their own distinguished design to seperate from the next MINI 3dr and 5dr hatch.

The success of the MINI Countryman has allowed MINI to further individualize the model variations to each segment , boosting marketability and visual appeal yet retain that essence of MINI with the penchant for unconventional methods. Forthcoming MINI models - MINI Traveller , MINI Paceman XL and MINI sedan are clear example of the new brand philosophy.
It is a real shame what BMW is doing with MINI. After a very successful resurrection of the brand, it has been nothing but dilution and marketing ever since. Unfortunately, the MINI brand has been expanding in more ways than just "a design angle", with every model that keeps coming out getting bigger and bigger, moving in the complete opposite direction of what the brand meant.

The name MINI together with Paceman XL doesn't quite make sense, does it?

Not to mention all the doubts around the MINI Rocketman concept. Maybe BMW deems it too small to have a MINI badge on it.
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      11-21-2012, 11:08 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by advantage20 View Post
I hate the idea of the Z roadsters being badged with odd numbers: Z1, Z3, Z5. It would be more consistent to not return to the past and instead continue the even number strategy started with the Z4, which would be: Z2 (entry-level FWD Mini brother), Z4 (even though it would become more downrange, more affordable and go back to soft top), Z6 (Z4 going more upmarket), which would by the way leave an empty number 8 box for a potential range topping new Z8 with V8 engine to rival the Merc SL.

Maybe it goes down to BMW having a problem with the Z2 being FWD while they promised that only the "1" range would get FWD, hence Z1 instead of Z2... But that would still be much more consistent than naming ALL BMW roadsters with odd numbers (Z1, Z3, Z5) while their whole current strategy is to clearly separate the odd-numbered "classical range" (1, 3, 5, 7 Series, X3, X5) from the even-numbered "sporty/coupé range" (2, 4, 6 Series, X4, X6, Z4), they even kill the "M3 Coupé" moniker in order to have a clearly stratified and legible range! And yet Z1, Z3, Z5?? It's just inconsistent as roadsters are definitely more "sporty/coupé" models than "classical" models...
That thought had occured to me as well. At this point, I guess I really no longer care what a particular model is called from any manufacturer. As long as that model I'm interested in performs well, I'll remain interested.
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      11-21-2012, 02:41 PM   #36
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      11-21-2012, 05:23 PM   #37
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I know M10 sounds good but I think M8 is better if the R8 is the competitor loll
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      11-21-2012, 06:24 PM   #38
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To provide greater economies of scale A FWD BMW sedan will become part of the new BMW FWD family. Expanding BMW's entry sporthatch to include a sedan variant aimed at markets for rising sales of small sedans.
As BMW announced lately that up to 11 models could appear from BMW on the UKL architecture with MINI, providing better profits and increased global sales for the small cars division.

So far the BMW/MINI UKL family stands as...

BMW 1er Urbanic Compact 3/5dr - Upcoming City hatch based on next MINI, BMW's Audi A1 rival.
MINI 3/5dr - Increased demand leads to the next generation MINI due next year with five drs for the 1st time.

BMW 1er Sedan - Baby sedan off the UKL architecture aimed at global markets for small sedans.
MINI Sedan - Sporty four dr MINI aimed at increasing markets for MINI products, potentially could be MINI's best global seller overtaking the Countryman.

BMW 1er Active Tourer - Production version of Active Tourer Concept launched at Iaa 2013.
MINI Traveller - MINI variant of the Active Tourer. Designed to show how both cars can co-exist with individual style and flexibility.

BMW 1er Urbanic Roadster - BMW's open top variant of the City car inherits two seats only with a rear deck with layed butresses like the BMW 6er Cabrio and BMW i8 designed for clip on roof panel.
MINI Cabrio - Latest F56 rendition of the popular open top MINI.

BMW Z1 Sportster - To provide greater economies of scale The Z1 will be BMW's equivalent to the MINI Coupe and Roadster , but will be FWD and powered by more powerful three cylinder engines. Design derived from well-received 2011 Vision ConnectedDrive concept car.
MINI Roadster - Next Roadster and Coupe will launch with a sportier look which is completely seperate from the standard MINI. MINI design elements will feature but bodywork is not based on the hatch family.

BMW Z1 SportCoupe - Coupe version of the Z1 will complete the BMW Z twins against the MINI twins.
MINI Coupe - Coupe version of Roadster , more individual in appearance.

BMW X1 - Next generation of highly successful SAV moves to the UKL architecture to offer more flexibility.
Also available with xDrive.
MINI Countryman - Next generation of the global MINI juggernaut. heavily shared with BMW X1.

BMW X2 - Sport Activity Coupe variant of the next BMW X1 , FWD with optional xDrive and the first BMW SAC to appear as both a 3dr and 5dr.
MINI Paceman/XL - Next generation of new MINI member will be offered with five dr version as well as 3dr.

BMW F.amily A.ctivity S.ports T.ourer - BMW's hybrid of SAV solidity , MPV space and Touring bodystyle
MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility , more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking proportions.

And of course the next generation 1er due in 2017 will resort to being FWD.
Then you can begin the RWD Compact family.

BMW 2er Coupe - Coupe version of the 1er hatch. Unique front and rear style , with more sleeker rounded roof but still compact proportions. Premieres IAA 2013.
BMW 2er Cabrio - Cabrio version continues unique appearance of the Coupe , retains soft-top.
BMW 2er Gran Coupe - 4dr addition of 2er Coupe with slightly lengthened wheelbase and roof line, aimed at BMW's RWD dominance against Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes-Benz CLA.
BMW 2er Gran Sports Tourer - Hyundai Veloster type A-symmetrical Tourer Coupe inspired by classic 2002 Touring variant, has many admirers in Munich.

BMW M2 Coupe - Successor to the BMW 1er M Coupe continues the same formula that made the last car be memorable, no huge competitor in the HP race , four cylinder will bring less weight , which matter most as does more enjoyment and overall feel is considered to be more of a priority than who has the biggest numbers.
BMW M2 Gran Coupe - Baby Coupe inherits a four door brother - 340 HP , Four doors and RWD , Direct competitor to the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.

They plan something more exotic than a rival to the Audi R8 and Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG. It wont be as "accessible".
M has a greater cache and history it will reflect the characteristics of the M division.

There will not be a large Coupe to rival the Mercedes-Benz CL-Klasse.
The 6er is the new 8er Coupe and will be as large as it gets.
Primarily because the markets have changed and that large Coupe owners need extra space and flexibility for their family and business requirements.
Which is why the market for larger four door Coupes is more lucrative.

The only V12 mid-large 2dr Coupe BMW will offer will be the Rolls-Royce Ghost Coupe.
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      11-21-2012, 10:40 PM   #39
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This may be a dumb question, but what exactly is it that makes a care a "supercar"? From my casual observations, the only criterion seemingly necessary to apply that moniker is that the car cost minimally three to five times as much as 80% of the other cars on could buy instead, and by that virtue alone making them so called exclusive.

Supercar, now there's a marketing term if ever there were one. Sure many of them perform well, but few will actually out perform, to a degree yielding a cogent value proposition, say an M3 or M5, and to the best of my knowledge, none are as well engineered as 90% of the cars on the road. Yes, folks who have such cars don't drive them often, but no wonder since they aren't as reliable as a common BMW, Honda or Buick. Yes, supercar interior appointments are somewhat nicer than that of the the common luxury/premium car. Yes, the shapes are somewhat unique, though among "supercars" the shapes are rather hackneyed. For example, put an Aston, Ferrari, and Lambo coupe at the end of a football field, cover each with a sheet, and stand at the other end and ask a typical person to tell me which is which. Then put a Porsche and MB supercar in there. I'm pretty certain they could tell which one is the Porsche and MB. So in the main, I'm convinced that the marketing folks would call such cars super cars if indeed they were that spectacular, singular and seminal, and not just delicate toys for rich folks.

If automakers want to build truly super cars, they'd build one that handles like a Porsche -- more or less -- with the rock solid dependability of a Toyota. Quite frankly, if and when I do buy a very expensive car, I still expect it to be no less dependable than any other car I've own. I certainly don't intend to pay more and receive no more and possibly less. Hopefully if/when BMW build its "supercar" it will genuinely be a super car, and BMW will run with all due haste from the term "supercar."
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      11-21-2012, 11:28 PM   #40
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Quote:
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BMW 1er Active Tourer - Production version of Active Tourer Concept launched at Iaa 2013.
MINI Traveller - MINI variant of the Active Tourer. Designed to show how both cars can co-exist with individual style and flexibility.




BMW F.amily A.ctivity S.ports T.ourer - BMW's hybrid of SAV solidity , MPV space and Touring bodystyle
MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility , more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking proportions.
Seems like a lot of potential overlap here. Can you provide some more guidance on what distinguishes these two concepts? (Active Tourer vs FAST, or Traveller vs Clubman)
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      11-22-2012, 12:02 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
To provide greater economies of scale A FWD BMW sedan will become part of the new BMW FWD family. Expanding BMW's entry sporthatch to include a sedan variant aimed at markets for rising sales of small sedans.
As BMW announced lately that up to 11 models could appear from BMW on the UKL architecture with MINI, providing better profits and increased global sales for the small cars division.

So far the BMW/MINI UKL family stands as...

BMW 1er Urbanic Compact 3/5dr - Upcoming City hatch based on next MINI, BMW's Audi A1 rival.
MINI 3/5dr - Increased demand leads to the next generation MINI due next year with five drs for the 1st time.

BMW 1er Sedan - Baby sedan off the UKL architecture aimed at global markets for small sedans.
MINI Sedan - Sporty four dr MINI aimed at increasing markets for MINI products, potentially could be MINI's best global seller overtaking the Countryman.

BMW 1er Active Tourer - Production version of Active Tourer Concept launched at Iaa 2013.
MINI Traveller - MINI variant of the Active Tourer. Designed to show how both cars can co-exist with individual style and flexibility.

BMW 1er Urbanic Roadster - BMW's open top variant of the City car inherits two seats only with a rear deck with layed butresses like the BMW 6er Cabrio and BMW i8 designed for clip on roof panel.
MINI Cabrio - Latest F56 rendition of the popular open top MINI.

BMW Z1 Sportster - To provide greater economies of scale The Z1 will be BMW's equivalent to the MINI Coupe and Roadster , but will be FWD and powered by more powerful three cylinder engines. Design derived from well-received 2011 Vision ConnectedDrive concept car.
MINI Roadster - Next Roadster and Coupe will launch with a sportier look which is completely seperate from the standard MINI. MINI design elements will feature but bodywork is not based on the hatch family.

BMW Z1 SportCoupe - Coupe version of the Z1 will complete the BMW Z twins against the MINI twins.
MINI Coupe - Coupe version of Roadster , more individual in appearance.

BMW X1 - Next generation of highly successful SAV moves to the UKL architecture to offer more flexibility.
Also available with xDrive.
MINI Countryman - Next generation of the global MINI juggernaut. heavily shared with BMW X1.

BMW X2 - Sport Activity Coupe variant of the next BMW X1 , FWD with optional xDrive and the first BMW SAC to appear as both a 3dr and 5dr.
MINI Paceman/XL - Next generation of new MINI member will be offered with five dr version as well as 3dr.

BMW F.amily A.ctivity S.ports T.ourer - BMW's hybrid of SAV solidity , MPV space and Touring bodystyle
MINI Clubman - Current car revisited with more style and more flexibility , more of a Shooting Brake with dynamic raked roof and forward looking proportions.

And of course the next generation 1er due in 2017 will resort to being FWD.
Then you can begin the RWD Compact family.

BMW 2er Coupe - Coupe version of the 1er hatch. Unique front and rear style , with more sleeker rounded roof but still compact proportions. Premieres IAA 2013.
BMW 2er Cabrio - Cabrio version continues unique appearance of the Coupe , retains soft-top.
BMW 2er Gran Coupe - 4dr addition of 2er Coupe with slightly lengthened wheelbase and roof line, aimed at BMW's RWD dominance against Audi A3 Sedan and Mercedes-Benz CLA.
BMW 2er Gran Sports Tourer - Hyundai Veloster type A-symmetrical Tourer Coupe inspired by classic 2002 Touring variant, has many admirers in Munich.

BMW M2 Coupe - Successor to the BMW 1er M Coupe continues the same formula that made the last car be memorable, no huge competitor in the HP race , four cylinder will bring less weight , which matter most as does more enjoyment and overall feel is considered to be more of a priority than who has the biggest numbers.
BMW M2 Gran Coupe - Baby Coupe inherits a four door brother - 340 HP , Four doors and RWD , Direct competitor to the Mercedes-Benz CLA45 AMG.

They plan something more exotic than a rival to the Audi R8 and Mercedes-Benz SLS AMG. It wont be as "accessible".
M has a greater cache and history it will reflect the characteristics of the M division.

There will not be a large Coupe to rival the Mercedes-Benz CL-Klasse.
The 6er is the new 8er Coupe and will be as large as it gets.
Primarily because the markets have changed and that large Coupe owners need extra space and flexibility for their family and business requirements.
Which is why the market for larger four door Coupes is more lucrative.

The only V12 mid-large 2dr Coupe BMW will offer will be the Rolls-Royce Ghost Coupe.
I can live with that. You seem to hint that the cars won't be getting much larger. Which is good.

Can you explain more about the new 1er family as several models seem to be pretty much thr same.
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      11-22-2012, 03:23 AM   #42
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Stick a tuned M5 engine in the i8 body and there's your supercar.
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      11-22-2012, 07:38 AM   #43
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what a amazing!
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      11-22-2012, 06:06 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by SCOTT26 View Post
There will not be a large Coupe to rival the Mercedes-Benz CL-Klasse.
The 6er is the new 8er Coupe and will be as large as it gets.
Primarily because the markets have changed and that large Coupe owners need extra space and flexibility for their family and business requirements.
Which is why the market for larger four door Coupes is more lucrative.

The only V12 mid-large 2dr Coupe BMW will offer will be the Rolls-Royce Ghost Coupe.
So no large 8 Series 2 door coupé with V12 engine to rival the CL... but the ultra luxury 4 door coupé above the 7 Series may still be badged 8 Series Gran Coupé
(Which as a sidenote means that the supercar would be badged M10 and not M8)
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