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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Tracking, Autocrossing, Dragstrip, Driving Techniques > Are you guys running the AT in manual mode, ds, or auto on road course?



View Poll Results: Are you guys running the AT in manual mode, ds, or auto on road course?
AUTO 0 0%
DS 9 33.33%
M 1-6 18 66.67%
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      10-30-2012, 07:53 PM   #1
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Are you guys running the AT in manual mode, ds, or auto on road course?

Are you guys running the AT in manual mode, ds, or auto on road course?
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      10-30-2012, 09:13 PM   #2
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DS.
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      10-30-2012, 11:28 PM   #3
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DS so I won't have to worry about which gear I'm in when I need to shift. Just gotta time the throttle response when flooring it out of the corners.
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      10-31-2012, 07:13 PM   #4
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Manual all the way. Definitely better to know what gear you're in when powering through a corner so you can properly throttle out. It's awful when you put your foot down and the car hesitates while searching for the right gear. The paddle shifters are there for a reason - use them!
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      10-31-2012, 07:48 PM   #5
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I've tried DS mode on my two day road course in NJMP Lightning. The result was pretty good on the first day to learn the track because you have less things to worry about, just drive and speed entering/exiting etc...

The second day I was ready to drive better and ready to make my car be in the right gear the whole time. I noticed that my car did keep it in the correct gear as you enter the apex for the most part, but there are a couple turns where it downshifted as you exit the apex which resulted in a hard jolt with meth and disrupts the car a bit on the exit... i'm not sure how much it would affect RWD cars as much as mine "AWD" but i managed to keep it in line when it happens, but its not the feeling you get when you shift manually and expect that kind of thing to happen when you want it. My advice is to learn M 1-6 from the start and get use to it. Its also nice to downgear and know which gears you are in as you do so... helps to determine where you should be on the track and in which gear. It actually helped me take a blind turn much better because i know i felt safe in gear 3's upper RPM vs DS which i wasn't sure what gear I was, and it was harder for me to judge how fast i really should be at that point etc...
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      10-31-2012, 08:29 PM   #6
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I like being able to hold a gear and downshifts/upshifts not being dependent on throttle input.
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      11-01-2012, 08:56 AM   #7
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I would imagine DS is best, truth is you can get around a track in one gear most times. These motors are so torquey I would think you'd get by fine the one time you would've downshifted from 5th to 4th (if you weigh that against the shift lag).
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      11-02-2012, 05:29 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSC_OFF View Post
I would imagine DS is best, truth is you can get around a track in one gear most times. These motors are so torquey I would think you'd get by fine the one time you would've downshifted from 5th to 4th (if you weigh that against the shift lag).
One gear? What track are you on?!?
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      11-02-2012, 05:39 PM   #9
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I once saw a car spun out in front of me when the automatic transmission downshifted at the exit of a turn when he put the hammer down.

If you don't know how to shift for yourself, at least DON'T LET THE CAR SHIFT FOR YOU. Put it in manual mode and make sure you are doing all the upshift and downshift. Car's not that smart (or good) when it comes to when to pick the shift point, especially when kick-down is involved.
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      11-02-2012, 05:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
I once saw a car spun out in front of me when the automatic transmission downshifted at the exit of a turn when he put the hammer down.

If you don't know how to shift for yourself, at least DON'T LET THE CAR SHIFT FOR YOU. Put it in manual mode and make sure you are doing all the upshift and downshift. Car's not that smart (or good) when it comes to when to pick the shift point, especially when kick-down is involved.
While I will be eternally grateful to you for your ideas on hosing down the radiator between sessions, I respectfully have to disagree with you heavily on this one. Note that the 335I 6AT's logic is still in effect when in Manual mode. You approach and exit your typical corner in 3rd gear. In manual mode, even if you down shift to second, the car will automatically upshift to 3rd, mid corner to prevent the excess wheel spin from the open differential. This will cost you 3 seconds in the corner, and save your life. You are fastest if you just leave the car in DS, and stay in 3rd through out the corner. If equipped with proper track tires, you will be even with an E46 M3 in the same corner, that is equipped with Street tires.

Also note that the only way to by pass/trick the transmission logic and enter in 2nd and exit WOT into 3rd is to do a double tap of the tranny before, and mid way through the turn, forcing it to stay in 2nd. If you are not timing it well enough the tranny will upshift. I have seen NO advantage time wise with using manual mode at the track in an open differential vehicle, only a penalty of up to 3 seconds, in the turn, and loads of excessive tranny build up. Just my 2 cents.
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      11-02-2012, 07:10 PM   #11
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I'm just tellin' you what I saw. An experience driver (5+ year, close to 100 days on track) in an AT spinning out in front of me due to the transmission doing things it's not suppose to. When he dropped the hammer coming out of a turn, the transmission dropped DOWN a gear and forced a spin unexpectedly (not on upshift). Dude ended up buying a MANUAL car and learning to drive stick for track use.

My opinion? If you're not in 100% control of your car on track, you're not in control of your car. Put it in manual and row your own gears rather than let the car determine it for you on track.
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      11-02-2012, 10:08 PM   #12
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wow, lots of great info.

i was curious as i heard from one member that running in AT mode, he avoids the LIMP Modes, i had to say hahhh?

i always run in M, sebring and homestead are 3 -4-5 gear tracks
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      11-03-2012, 07:29 AM   #13
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Manual mode always & 2 small rubber grommets under the gas pedal (see DIY section) to prevent kickdown/downshifting, I need to know what gear I'm in at all times.
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      11-03-2012, 10:02 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
An experience driver (5+ year, close to 100 days on track)....When he dropped the hammer coming out of a turn, the transmission dropped DOWN a gear and forced a spin unexpectedly (not on upshift).
One of the first lessons I learned in my AT is to never "drop the hammer coming out of a turn." Anyone with a modicum of track experience will generally roll into the throttle coming out of turns. Every instructor I've had has preached this, AT or not.
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      11-03-2012, 09:05 PM   #15
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Originally Posted by srSheepdog View Post
One gear? What track are you on?!?
I've been on 7 different tracks.

Note I said one gear can get you around, not it was the fastest. What tracks have you done that can't be done in one gear once you've gotten to speed?
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      11-04-2012, 10:04 AM   #16
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+1
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      11-04-2012, 10:06 AM   #17
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sebring is high speed, definitely need 5th gear, but i guess you can do the whole track in 5th,
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      11-04-2012, 10:32 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acj75 View Post
One of the first lessons I learned in my AT is to never "drop the hammer coming out of a turn." Anyone with a modicum of track experience will generally roll into the throttle coming out of turns. Every instructor I've had has preached this, AT or not.
To Acj75, and DSC_OFF: There's a lot of chest-beating going on in this thread, so I quit while I was ahead.
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      11-05-2012, 08:10 AM   #19
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Originally Posted by Killerfish2012 View Post
To Acj75, and DSC_OFF: There's a lot of chest-beating going on in this thread, so I quit while I was ahead.
Hardly any chest pounding on my part, someone asks me what tracks I've been on, figured better to give a number than to list them all out. And I can't see how anyone can argue that one cannot make around a track in a single gear -- so are they heel/toeing through their cool down lap? I often tell intro drivers to try to minimize shifting in order to learn the line during their first session or two, and often times depending on the car it can be done in 4th or 5th.
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      11-05-2012, 02:59 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by acj75 View Post
One of the first lessons I learned in my AT is to never "drop the hammer coming out of a turn." Anyone with a modicum of track experience will generally roll into the throttle coming out of turns. Every instructor I've had has preached this, AT or not.
One of the lessons I always try to teach, is forget everything you've learned up to this point and ADAPT. You'll quickly find that the fastest way around a track is to get on the throttle as soon as possible and get to FULL THROTTLE as quickly as your traction allows. Any instructor that continue to preach "don't drop the hammer" to an advanced student is probably afraid said student does not have the required skills. The "don't drop the hammer" speech is what I give to C and D students. A & B students, I'm asking "why aren't you at full throttle yet?"

Once you advance past a certain basic skill level, you need to learn to figure out what feedback is right and what is wrong. The guy I was talking about has close to 100 track days under his belt at the time and I trust him implicitly when sharing a track...That should say something about what he knows and don't know. The fact is, when he had reached full throttle as he exited a turn, the automatic transmission dropped down one gear on him and caused him to spin out of control.

Again. If you're not in full control of your vehicle at all times, you're not in control, period. If you have to feather the throttle longer because you're afraid of the car downshifting on you unexpectedly, you're not going to be able to extract that last 1/10th of a second out of said corner.

Put the transmission in manual mode and control what gear you're in, don't let the car do the guesswork for you.
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      11-05-2012, 06:57 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by The HACK View Post
One of the lessons I always try to teach, is forget everything you've learned up to this point and ADAPT. You'll quickly find that the fastest way around a track is to get on the throttle as soon as possible and get to FULL THROTTLE as quickly as your traction allows. Any instructor that continue to preach "don't drop the hammer" to an advanced student is probably afraid said student does not have the required skills. The "don't drop the hammer" speech is what I give to C and D students. A & B students, I'm asking "why aren't you at full throttle yet?"

Once you advance past a certain basic skill level, you need to learn to figure out what feedback is right and what is wrong. The guy I was talking about has close to 100 track days under his belt at the time and I trust him implicitly when sharing a track...That should say something about what he knows and don't know. The fact is, when he had reached full throttle as he exited a turn, the automatic transmission dropped down one gear on him and caused him to spin out of control.

Again. If you're not in full control of your vehicle at all times, you're not in control, period. If you have to feather the throttle longer because you're afraid of the car downshifting on you unexpectedly, you're not going to be able to extract that last 1/10th of a second out of said corner.

Put the transmission in manual mode and control what gear you're in, don't let the car do the guesswork for you.
+1. I have to agree with The HACK. As soon as you KNOW you do not have to come off throttle is when you hammer it. As for gear decisions, in M mode you have the most control. Even though F1 cars use paddle shifters those guys are hardly letting the car decide what gear to be in. They decide everything not the car. As for smoothness and rolling into the throttle this is a safe way to make it around the track and as Jackie Stewart says "if you see a dog you dont just jump up behind it you talk your way to it to let the dog know you are there. The same holds for driving fast." However, there is never any mention of not being in control of the gearing by him. Check out this episode of Top Gear for some morsels of wisdom where he teaches one of the hosts to cut 20 sec off his lap time.

Summary of the episode by Jackie Stewart
1) smooth is fast,
2) you need to be in the right gear before corner
3) and you need to get on throttle as soon as possible and hammer it when you know you do not have to let got of the throttle.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature...&v=n5rpFXdWtK4
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      11-05-2012, 11:06 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by DSC_OFF View Post
Hardly any chest pounding on my part, someone asks me what tracks I've been on, figured better to give a number than to list them all out. And I can't see how anyone can argue that one cannot make around a track in a single gear -- so are they heel/toeing through their cool down lap? I often tell intro drivers to try to minimize shifting in order to learn the line during their first session or two, and often times depending on the car it can be done in 4th or 5th.
comment wasn't directed at you. It was directed at the trolls.
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