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      06-23-2015, 04:48 PM   #1
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Paranoid About Doing a Back End Flash

My BT cable arrived today and I'm planning on finally doing the pump flash when I get home from work via BB. I've been reading some horror stories about people bricking their DMEs while doing this is if the flash fails. I have a March 2008 production so I'm assuming it's MSD81? Anyways, I'm a bit concerned and am hoping you guys can chime in or give me some tips. I've also seen terry say a fast laptop can cause issues, I only have a laptop with a 2.6ghz intel i7 quad core processor that runs windows 8.1 64bit so it's pretty dang speedy. This concerns me. At the very least I plan on reading the stock bin file tonight which should take about 70min, correct me if I'm wrong.

So, should I try to do the Pump BEF tonight? I don't wanna brick my DME.. obviously.

Edit: I decided I'll be doing the BMS backend flash for use with JB4 through MHD instead.
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      06-23-2015, 04:54 PM   #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bk335 View Post
My BT cable arrived today and I'm planning on finally doing the pump flash when I get home from work via BB. I've been reading some horror stories about people bricking their DMEs while doing this is if the flash fails. I have a March 2008 production so I'm assuming it's MSD81? Anyways, I'm a bit concerned and am hoping you guys can chime in or give me some tips. I've also seen terry say a fast laptop can cause issues, I only have a laptop with a 2.6ghz intel i7 quad core processor that runs windows 8.1 64bit so it's pretty dang speedy. This concerns me. At the very least I plan on reading the stock bin file tonight which should take about 70min, correct me if I'm wrong.

So, should I try to do the Pump BEF tonight? I don't wanna brick my DME.. obviously.
I felt the same way. And guess what, I attempted it, and then my car wouldn't start! Your fear is rational. You're rolling the dice on this one.

I was lucky to find someone local who was able to re-flash a tune, which cost me $200.

It's not worth the risk IMO, especially if it is your daily driver like mine. If you have an android device, grab the MHD flasher and go that route. It works flawlessly.
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      06-23-2015, 04:55 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bk335 View Post
My BT cable arrived today and I'm planning on finally doing the pump flash when I get home from work via BB. I've been reading some horror stories about people bricking their DMEs while doing this is if the flash fails. I have a March 2008 production so I'm assuming it's MSD81? Anyways, I'm a bit concerned and am hoping you guys can chime in or give me some tips. I've also seen terry say a fast laptop can cause issues, I only have a laptop with a 2.6ghz intel i7 quad core processor that runs windows 8.1 64bit so it's pretty dang speedy. This concerns me. At the very least I plan on reading the stock bin file tonight which should take about 70min, correct me if I'm wrong.

So, should I try to do the Pump BEF tonight? I don't wanna brick my DME.. obviously.
March 2008.. mine too. You'll be fine.

If you're worried about a fast laptop, just go into your power options and change processor max to 50%

I did it with an i7-4700QM, no problems

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BACK UP YOUR STOCK BIN/ORG IN 8 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS
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      06-23-2015, 05:02 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by cmg5461 View Post
March 2008.. mine too. You'll be fine.

If you're worried about a fast laptop, just go into your power options and change processor max to 50%

I did it with an i7-4700QM, no problems

ALSO

BACK UP YOUR STOCK BIN/ORG IN 8 DIFFERENT LOCATIONS
Great, thanks for the info and PM reply. I didn't think of reducing the CPU performance, I'll be doing that. And yes I'm planning on backing it up on google drive, dropbox, flash drive and on my computer.
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      06-23-2015, 05:03 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
I felt the same way. And guess what, I attempted it, and then my car wouldn't start! Your fear is rational. You're rolling the dice on this one.

I was lucky to find someone local who was able to re-flash a tune, which cost me $200.

It's not worth the risk IMO, especially if it is your daily driver like mine. If you have an android device, grab the MHD flasher and go that route. It works flawlessly.
This may be a dumb question but if I go MHD, what are my options for a pump flash (similar to BMS)?
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      06-23-2015, 05:25 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bk335 View Post
This may be a dumb question but if I go MHD, what are my options for a pump flash (similar to BMS)?
Stage 1 - 91 or 93 octane
Stage 1 - 91 or 93 octane w/ FMIC
Stage 2 - 91 octane - FBO
Stage 2 - 93 octane - FBO

All of them are pure bliss!
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      06-23-2015, 05:37 PM   #7
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One thing to flash with Cobb, it's another to do with the BB which is a notorious PITA.

Back everything up and put Wedge on your Speed dial.

GL
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      06-23-2015, 05:38 PM   #8
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Don't be scared, lol. Make sure you have at least a 10A battery charger hooked up throughout the entire process. A lot of failures come from drops in voltage.
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      06-23-2015, 05:52 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
One thing to flash with Cobb, it's another to do with the BB which is a notorious PITA.

Back everything up and put Wedge on your Speed dial.

GL
+1 - I thought it wasn't too bad, given I'm pretty saavy with technology. Then I nearly bricked my ecu and had to pay someone to fix it. No fun on a friday evening.
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      06-23-2015, 05:53 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by musc View Post
Don't be scared, lol. Make sure you have at least a 10A battery charger hooked up throughout the entire process. A lot of failures come from drops in voltage.
I'd say more often it's the hardware flashing the ECU.
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      06-23-2015, 05:56 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
+1 - I thought it wasn't too bad, given I'm pretty saavy with technology. Then I nearly bricked my ecu and had to pay someone to fix it. No fun on a friday evening.
I did this on a sunday morning, in the mountains, with no connection to the outside world haha.

Granted, I extensively read about the process and was very meticulous about taking all precautions.

Worst case scenario (besides bricking) - disconnect battery for a few minutes and attempt to flash modified map or stock map again.

I had my laptop and car charging while writing, reading was done on battery.
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      06-23-2015, 06:07 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Stage 1 - 91 or 93 octane
Stage 1 - 91 or 93 octane w/ FMIC
Stage 2 - 91 octane - FBO
Stage 2 - 93 octane - FBO

All of them are pure bliss!
Well I just ordered the DCAN cable and a micro usb to usb adaptor from amazon. Think I might go the MHD route. Another dumb question (I'm a BEF noob) if I flash stage 1, what exactly does that do? Control timing and fueling? I'd like to still run map 5 on my g5 iso to control boost.


Edit: So if I flash the pump map terry made for MHD it'll be the exact same as if I were to flash through BB? I'm more interested in terry's BMS pump flash map as of right now. So I'd just load the files onto an android device then I'm assuming I can just browse for it then flash it through MHD?

This is what I'm talking about... http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29236
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      06-23-2015, 06:08 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@TopGearSolutions View Post
One thing to flash with Cobb, it's another to do with the BB which is a notorious PITA.

Back everything up and put Wedge on your Speed dial.

GL
Yeah, that's what I read. I think I'll go MHD and just send my BT cable back since I have JB4 to read codes. Thanks for the input.
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      06-23-2015, 06:34 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bk335 View Post
Well I just ordered the DCAN cable and a micro usb to usb adaptor from amazon. Think I might go the MHD route. Another dumb question (I'm a BEF noob) if I flash stage 1, what exactly does that do? Control timing and fueling? I'd like to still run map 5 on my g5 iso to control boost.


Edit: So if I flash the pump map terry made for MHD it'll be the exact same as if I were to flash through BB? I'm more interested in terry's BMS pump flash map as of right now. So I'd just load the files onto an android device then I'm assuming I can just browse for it then flash it through MHD?

This is what I'm talking about... http://www.n54tech.com/forums/showthread.php?t=29236
Yes to your edit.
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      06-23-2015, 06:40 PM   #15
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Yes to your edit.
Awesome. I should've just done that in the first place

Do you run BMS backend and JB4?
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      06-23-2015, 07:23 PM   #16
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lol at the scare tactics. I've failed flashing twice with BT tool. The first time my computer was incompatible which was the first flash attempt (so I used another one that was) and the second time voltage ran low so I added a battery charger (usually I don't need to since it flashes in 2 minutes). If you have the right computer (usually an old slow $150 ebay special will do) and a battery charger all these so called concerns are way over stated and I have a 07' which is the hardest one to flash. If you don't do anything the instructions say not to do your usually okay (shit like voltage reading 0 and you flash anyway etc). If your unlucky enough for you computer to crash mid flash perhaps something bad can happen but I haven't had anything that a battery charger, compatible computer and 2nd force write wouldn't fix. Hell my DME went into recovery mod with my (non compatible) laptop and once again a simple force write with a compatible laptop flashed without issue. Its not like one or two people have flashed with it. Last I checked the Jb4 was pretty popular and more than likely 90% of people with a back end flash used the BT tool (Cobb became unsupported and MHD has only been around a hot minute).
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      06-23-2015, 07:29 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by n54door View Post
Stage 1 - 91 or 93 octane
Stage 1 - 91 or 93 octane w/ FMIC
Stage 2 - 91 octane - FBO
Stage 2 - 93 octane - FBO

All of them are pure bliss!
Terry has JB4 back end specific flashes for MHD which are not listed above. Those above are designed as flash only tunes. His MHD flashes are (according to him) equivalent to the BT flash files in function so there is another option. I'm probably going to get the MHD for logging module so I can log with my phone instead of laptop which is cool.
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      06-23-2015, 07:35 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by stanlalee View Post
lol at the scare tactics. I've failed flashing twice with BT tool. The first time my computer was incompatible which was the first flash attempt (so I used anothe..................
Nope. You just don't have enough experience with backend flashing. I use to backend flash all the time for racing/daily driving (backend flash gets horrendous mileage). Always hooked up to a 10-50a charger. Failed a few times and had to disconnect the battery. PITA but whatev.

Then one night although I don't think I did anything different, my ECU completely bricked. I even tried to reinstall my OEM bin and it wouldn't take it. Contacted Wedge and he thankfully was able to help me out after a couple tries. I was car-less for a couple days. After that sold the jb4 and went with cobb lol

Point being, it's not scare tatics. It happens
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      06-23-2015, 07:45 PM   #19
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Originally Posted by vincentvega222 View Post
Nope. You just don't have enough experience with backend flashing. I use to backend flash all the time for racing/daily driving (backend flash gets horrendous mileage). Always hooked up to a 10-50a charger. Failed a few times and had to disconnect the battery. PITA but whatev.

Then one night although I don't think I did anything different, my ECU completely bricked. I even tried to reinstall my OEM bin and it wouldn't take it. Contacted Wedge and he thankfully was able to help me out after a couple tries. I was car-less for a couple days. After that sold the jb4 and went with cobb lol

Point being, it's not scare tatics. It happens
If you didn't have to replace the ECU it wasn't bricked. Bricked by definition means can't be fixed. If it failed a few times with a battery charger something is already wrong. It should fail ZERO times with a computer that works and adequate voltage. I don't have a JB4 and I started with Shiv's stage 1 and then started modifying it in TunerPro then I started with the E40 file but without FBO and modified it with probably 20 different versions before settling on it working properly with my mods (after about 20 different versions of stage 1). I flashed back to stock when my clutch went out. I've flashed over 100 times and have been doing it for a year. Have NEVER failed a flash on present laptop when voltage didn't dip. Exactly how much experience do I need. I've seen it fail a few times and I've seen it work probably 100 times. Shit can go wrong with ANY flash whether your flashing you phone with a ROM or your DME, machines are not perfect but your experience is not typical.
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      06-23-2015, 07:56 PM   #20
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lol i was scared at first too but then i did it and everything has been fine. just hook up a battery charger when doing the read. my battery died once while writing. that scared me a little but after charging it, i just reflashed and it worked fine
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      06-23-2015, 08:20 PM   #21
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The funny part is the so called experts who have flashed 1 million times have never seen a bricked ECU. These so called experts have even told me in the past it's not possible to brick the DME.

BB flash has no fail safes. That doesn't set well with me knowing how easy it is to truly brick an ECU. I've seen 4 DMEs that have been hard bricked. No matter what you do, you can't get them to boot into recovery mode. I'm sure there are others, not everyone contacts me. It's $1850 retail for a new MSD81. That doesn't include flashing and coding injectors.

Long story short, if don't want to take chances with bricking your ECU, get MHD.
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      06-23-2015, 08:56 PM   #22
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Originally Posted by WedgePerformance View Post
The funny part is the so called experts who have flashed 1 million times have never seen a bricked ECU. These so called experts have even told me in the past it's not possible to brick the DME.
If that's aimed at me I don't claim to be anything close to an expert with ANYTHING computer related. Percentage wise you can't claim its been unreliable based on 4 or 5 known and probably 4 or 5 unknown cases out of the crap load of people who have used it. If there are no fail safes that is a valid argument to consider but not having fail safes does not equal likely to fail. Your not exactly a neutral party. I think the MHD is one of the coolest/clever flash tools to come out on ANY platform and its a steal for what it cost to get going (I wouldn't recommend against it but that wasn't really in question and dude has the cable already). Because something new or better is out does not instantly make what was used routinely hazardous and dangerous. Did it use to be okay to unsafely flash our cars but now we've wised up 2 years after the last e9x has even been in production? I know here comes the old advances/breakthru spiel but if it was that fail prone it would have never become popular or have become "the" backend option to begin with. Cobb was the first option. It didn't become the backend standard by mass ruining tons of DMEs. At the end of the day flash at your own risk. There would be no at your own risk which imply's some risk is involved. Are you sure you are representing that level of risk accurately?
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