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      08-10-2007, 12:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikem View Post
It doesn`t Carl and no E46 M3 has 345 hp.
ok 330-338bhp ish then!!

what does it do it then.. im sure the 0-62 is 5.2 anyhow
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      08-10-2007, 12:41 PM   #24
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Official figures are 5.2 coupe and 5.5 cab but all coupes tested are normally just under 5 secs.
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      08-10-2007, 12:46 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by mikem View Post
Official figures are 5.2 coupe and 5.5 cab but all coupes tested are normally just under 5 secs.
yeah its strange, when i test drove the csl, which is quicker than the stock m3, it didnt feel anywhere near under 4 secs. The bloody 335d felt quicker to 120 also
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      08-10-2007, 02:02 PM   #26
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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
1/4mile for americans??

how long has santa pod been around.....?!
Since 1966 when it was built on an AMERICAN WWII airbase

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Pod

Nice history of the AMERICAN sport of drag racing in the article as well

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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
were both cars timed the very same day with the very same driver in the very same session?? (the 330i and m5)????
I don't know, but the conditions were similar. Evo don't record times in the wet and if the drack is slightly damp they say so. In this case both were dry.

They said that the 330i was very well balanced and that they could enter corners very quickly. In contrast entry speed was lower in the M5, but obviously exit speed would be much greater.

I've driven the West Circuit myself and I can see the logic of this. It's short and the very quickest cars only hit 120mph on the longest straight.

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Originally Posted by mikem View Post
Carlos your forgetting all about your slushbox again aren`t you. I know of a manual E46 330i thats done 0-60 in 5.9 plenty of times. Therefore the 272 E90 will easily crack 5.5 secs.
Deisel fumes reduce short term memory and verbal reasoning skills

Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
yeah its strange, when i test drove the csl, which is quicker than the stock m3, it didnt feel anywhere near under 4 secs. The bloody 335d felt quicker to 120 also
That's cause the CSL doesn't do 0-60 in under 4 secs.

0-62 is officially stated as 4.9 secs

http://www.channel4.com/4car/di/road...pression/917/3

A 330i and a 335d will have very similar performance on a road or track. The 335d has more power and torque, but less revs - on a track that's a disadvantage.
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      08-10-2007, 02:18 PM   #27
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Originally Posted by peterg1965 View Post
I am not so sure Viv likes it, that's why he gave it to you Carlos!
!

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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
well viv couldnt actually use it, considering its a pic of me
!

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Originally Posted by DervFan View Post
I like it the 'Daddy's just needs to be a bit bolder. Perhaps Viv's photochop skills could assist
Indeed they could, Derv!

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Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
have you seen the original pic tho?? maybe they havent thats why they dont like it, ie dont really get it/see it?

derv, you are da man

it is good isnt it...

Carlos
Thanks Carlos!

My 're-worked' shot for you, ok!

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      08-10-2007, 03:15 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
Easily ...

The 258 hp 330i will already do that
you really do have some stupid dreams
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      08-13-2007, 05:52 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Ashton View Post
you really do have some stupid dreams
I don't think so - I did have some Stilton last night, but I don't think I'm delusional.

The difference in performance between the 330i and the 335d is simply not that huge.

The 335d msport has 286 hp and a kerb weight of 1655 kilos - so the power to weight ratio is 172 bhp/tonne.

The 330i msport has 258 hp and a kerb weight of 1555 kilos - so the power to weight ratio os 166 bhp/tonne.

So the 330i is giving away just 7 bhp. The 0-62 stats reflect this with the 335d official time just 1/100th of a second ahead of the 330i (6.2 secs vs 6.3 secs)

The new 272 hp 330i will have a power to weight ratio of 174 bhp/tonne - higher than the 335d.

Any difference in performance between the 2 cars will largely be the result of gearing and driver skill.

The diesels flat powerband and high torque will give it a significant advantage in terms of in gear acceleration on-road. However the 330i can just drop to a gear below because it makes it's torque at higher rpm.

On a track, it just depends on the gear ratios and the rpm that those dictate at cornering speeds. There will be situations where the 330i can exit a corner in 2nd and the 335d will always be one gear higher. If the 335d ends up 2 gears higher on some of these then the 330i will be quicker.
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      08-13-2007, 06:49 AM   #30
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NFS is right; there isnít much difference between 330i and 335D.
But itís no good just quoting torque, itís the torque curve and gearing that are the key points. The 335D is a like 15 year virgin, comes in with a bang at 1750 rpm, but its all over by 2250 rpm. Whilst the 330i is for the long play, a nice flat curve, delivering 300Nm at 2500 and is still there at 5500 with 288Nm of thrust!

But if you also look at the top MPH in each gear, the 335D is all about acceleration. I put this little table together, Iíve assumed red line on 335D is 4800 and 330i is 7000, running 225/45 R17 tyres, so the data might be a little out if Iím wrong.

Maximum MPH in each gear.
..... 1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th
330i 43 74 111 150 185 218
335D 30 54 83 111 146 184

Clearly I donít expect the 330i to achieve 218mph! I would expect its maximum speed is achieved in 5th, around the max HP (6600rpm), which I reckon is about 175ish. The 335D on the other hand, uses all the gears, hitting the 155 limited speed at max HP (4400 rpm) in 6th. However, because of the transmission gear ratio of 0.69 and the way the torque tails off, I donít the 335D will go much faster.

As Carlos has said once or twice! The 335D has great in-gear acceleration and I would think over a ľ mile, will leave a 330i behind.
But, over a longer distance, the 330i would pull it all back and get ahead.
Would I be right in saying Carlos, that at the end of your run, you were in 2nd, looking to get into 3rd?

For me, I would always have the 330i, but I wait for the new one to see how they got those extra horses.
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      08-13-2007, 06:58 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
On a track, it just depends on the gear ratios and the rpm that those dictate at cornering speeds. There will be situations where the 330i can exit a corner in 2nd and the 335d will always be one gear higher. If the 335d ends up 2 gears higher on some of these then the 330i will be quicker.
I understand what your saying but in practice the additional torque is a tremendous advantage. If you would like to see some gearbox tourque figures for the 335d, I'll send them. You can easily be a gear or two up as the numbers are much higher than a normally asphirated petrol.

In racing where diesels take part, Le Mans Prototypes, both the Audis and Peugeots murder their petrol engined rivals. With similar power outputs around the 600 BHP mark to the petrol engined cars, the higher torque of the diesels (800 compared to 450 ft lbs) just allows them to accelerate more quickly coming out of turns despite their weight disadvantage.

When I was racing cars I would always struggle against cars with more torque, sure it was possible to make up some ground under braking, but that was not a lot of good once they were in front of you and they just buggered off exiting the next corner.

Regards

Chris
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      08-13-2007, 07:02 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Art Man View Post
NFS is right; there isnít much difference between 330i and 335D.
But itís no good just quoting torque, itís the torque curve and gearing that are the key points. The 335D is a like 15 year virgin, comes in with a bang at 1750 rpm, but its all over by 2250 rpm.
The 335d has 435Nm of torque at 4500RPM so hardly all over

Regards

Chris
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      08-13-2007, 10:29 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisMWard View Post
I understand what your saying but in practice the additional torque is a tremendous advantage. If you would like to see some gearbox tourque figures for the 335d, I'll send them. You can easily be a gear or two up as the numbers are much higher than a normally asphirated petrol.

In racing where diesels take part, Le Mans Prototypes, both the Audis and Peugeots murder their petrol engined rivals. With similar power outputs around the 600 BHP mark to the petrol engined cars, the higher torque of the diesels (800 compared to 450 ft lbs) just allows them to accelerate more quickly coming out of turns despite their weight disadvantage.

When I was racing cars I would always struggle against cars with more torque, sure it was possible to make up some ground under braking, but that was not a lot of good once they were in front of you and they just buggered off exiting the next corner.

Regards

Chris
Obviously it's torque at the wheels that matters for acceleration, so the gearing is important. I've mapped output shaft torque for the 330d and 330i before and the diesel has huge figures in the lower gears where it can also take advantage of torque multiplication through gearing.

However, my point was that you would have to review each individual situation. So for instance a 330i might hit the apex of a corner at 55mph, and be at 4000rpm in 2nd gear - right in the sweet spot. What gear and rpm would the diesel have in that corner and how much torque would each car be able to access to accelerate out of it?

I'm not saying which is 'faster' 330i or 335d because I don't know.

I think the 335d has the edge in a lot of situations, but I think the 330i could be a threat on the right track.

I don't think that the 335d is massively faster than the 330i. If it is quicker it is only so by a narrow margin.
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      08-13-2007, 10:53 AM   #34
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Elsewhere I believe people have said in real world that 335i is arguably not much faster than 335d.

So by simple mathematics there's no point you getting a 335i over your 330i other than for a change of background colour in sat nav and an Ipod interface because they're all arguably as quick as eachother real world
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      08-13-2007, 11:06 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
Elsewhere I believe people have said in real world that 335i is arguably not much faster than 335d.

So by simple mathematics there's no point you getting a 335i over your 330i other than for a change of background colour in sat nav and an Ipod interface because they're all arguably as quick as eachother real world
For every day driving on UK roads it will be MUCH easier to go fast in the 335d than the 335i or even the slothfull 330i.

But I still don't want one

This has accidently turned into a 'petrol vs diesel' 'my cars faster than your car' type of thread. All I was saying is that the 330i is still pretty quick and 335d owners shouldn't assume otherwise.

So ... why should I keep my 330i then?
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      08-13-2007, 11:09 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
For every day driving on UK roads it will be MUCH easier to go fast in the 335d than the 335i or even the slothfull 330i.

But I still don't want one

This has accidently turned into a 'petrol vs diesel' 'my cars faster than your car' type of thread. All I was saying is that the 330i is still pretty quick and 335d owners shouldn't assume otherwise.

So ... why should I keep my 330i then?

i never said she was slow, there quick motors.. will cost more to get more power out of (compared to a 335d) and not really a car you would want to tune...

i have never seen a stock 330i do a 13 sec quarter.

Carlos
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      08-13-2007, 11:10 AM   #37
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It probably has turned into that, perhaps by the 2nd/3rd post even, but that wasn't the point of my post. It was simply to highlight that from everything people are posting it sounds like any real world speed differences betweeen the 3 cars I mention will perhaps be negligible, and then by extension, what's the point in getting any of them over the other for speed/performance reasons. Perhaps that isn't the reason people buy those cars.
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      08-13-2007, 11:21 AM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
It probably has turned into that, perhaps by the 2nd/3rd post even, but that wasn't the point of my post. It was simply to highlight that from everything people are posting it sounds like any real world speed differences betweeen the 3 cars I mention will perhaps be negligible, and then by extension, what's the point in getting any of them over the other for speed/performance reasons. Perhaps that isn't the reason people buy those cars.
I think you are absolutely right.

My 530d felt quick, but it did 0-60 in 7.1 secs.

If I'm honest my 330i doesn't feel significantly quicker, but it is more fun.

I don't think I'd be able to detect the extra 0.1 secs I could shave off this time by getting a 335d.

In both the 330i and the 530d I generally end up running out of space before I can really exploit the performance, plus with 0-60 coming up in 6 secs you haven't got much left before you are in Gatso territory.

I'll freely admit I bought the petrol for fun.
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      08-13-2007, 11:23 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dxb335d View Post
i never said she was slow, there quick motors.. will cost more to get more power out of (compared to a 335d) and not really a car you would want to tune...

i have never seen a stock 330i do a 13 sec quarter.

Carlos
I think the 330i is maybe 0.3 of a second behind the 335d over the 1/4 mile.

I am sure that those into drag racing will tell me that this is an enternity, but it doesn't seem like much to me.

In terms of general driving I don't think that they are that far apart, but you'll have to do a lot more work in the 330i if you want to keep up with the deisel.
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      08-13-2007, 11:30 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
I think the 330i is maybe 0.3 of a second behind the 335d over the 1/4 mile.

I am sure that those into drag racing will tell me that this is an enternity, but it doesn't seem like much to me.

In terms of general driving I don't think that they are that far apart, but you'll have to do a lot more work in the 330i if you want to keep up with the deisel.

your so right buddy, the 335d is effortless.. why else do i end up pushing m3's down the road:rocks:


its not just the 0.3 sec, its also the trap speed, the 335d can trap over the ton, whereas the 330i is trapping late into the nineties.

like you said round a track it would be different a manual would be easier and you would be able to dictate how the car will go around the track better
Carlos

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      08-13-2007, 12:03 PM   #41
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What's trapping ? Are we back on foxes again?
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      08-13-2007, 12:48 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by silverbmwz3 View Post
What's trapping ? Are we back on foxes again?

when talking 1/4mile drag racing, trap is short for trap speed, the speed you crossed the 1/4mile at... ie a jet car the weekend i went there quarterd in 6.1 sec @ 250mph

now thats quick


Carlos
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      08-13-2007, 01:30 PM   #43
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Can i just add,that the new 330i engine should be a peach,i've had the e46 version and Bm make the best 6cyls there is

But,when deciding on what to have i was lucky enough to have the choice between 330i,335i or 335d,deliberated for 2 sec's and decided on the 335d mainly because of the torque (although i must admit to not bothering with a test drive) but for me also the re-sale of the D in my exsperience will be so much better

Now what was this thread about
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      08-13-2007, 03:53 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by needforspeed View Post
I think you are absolutely right.

My 530d felt quick, but it did 0-60 in 7.1 secs.

If I'm honest my 330i doesn't feel significantly quicker, but it is more fun.

I don't think I'd be able to detect the extra 0.1 secs I could shave off this time by getting a 335d.

In both the 330i and the 530d I generally end up running out of space before I can really exploit the performance, plus with 0-60 coming up in 6 secs you haven't got much left before you are in Gatso territory.

I'll freely admit I bought the petrol for fun.
I'll always buy the petrol to hear that rev note at high revs and to get that extra few pence per mile allowance from HM Customs
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