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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Installing Subwoofer as Infinite Baffle IB in rear parcelshelf / if no skyhole



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      11-27-2012, 01:01 PM   #1
makkan00
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I have tried the sub in
-sealed
-ported
-corner enclosure
-inifinite baffle (IB)

and for me IB worked out best. If you cannot do this, then opt for corner enclosure as that sounds decent.

IB requires plenty of work, and cutting the metal in the rear parcel shelf. There is a lot of work / DIY work involved so opt for this ONLY if you are really determined.

Here is the procedure:
1- Fold the rear seats. If you have non-folding seats, then you would have to remove the rear seats.
2- Remove side airbag panels.
3- Remover 6 clips which are keeping the rear parcel shelf.
4- Remove rear speakers.
5- Slide the parcel shelf toward the front of the car. It simply slides off.
6- There is a foam b.w parcel shelf and metal plate.

There is already a small opening in the rear metallic sheet of e90. I had to extend it to fit 10 inch sub.

Few photos:

I have bought rear deck from ebay.


I had to cut a hole for 10 inch sub. And used MDF board to fit the sub there



This is how it looks






Hope it helps somebody at some stage.
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      11-27-2012, 01:17 PM   #2
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Very nice. That's a big ass 10".
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      11-27-2012, 01:42 PM   #3
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I'm gonna run that through WinISD tonight. I suspect the driver is too small and the enclosure too large!
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      11-27-2012, 01:53 PM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
I'm gonna run that through WinISD tonight. I suspect the driver is too small and the enclosure too large!
Kaigoss
Many thanks. Can you kindly check following drivers as well
Pioneer TS-W306C
Pioneer TS-W256C

If you require any specs info, I have attached the sheet with this post.
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File Type: pdf TS-W306c.pdf (532.6 KB, 343 views)
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      11-27-2012, 06:11 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Denny347
Very nice. That's a big ass 10".
Indeed it is. 1000 watt rms.
Going to buy JL 1000/1 to power this.
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      11-27-2012, 07:18 PM   #6
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Okay, so I'm by no means an expert on IB, as I'm still learning as well. With that said, below is the graph for the Alpine in 12 ft3, which is about the trunk's volume I believe. I also modeled a popular infinite baffle driver, the AE IB15 for comparison sake. Also the same Alpine in an "optimum" sealed enclosure.

You can see the output between IB and a small sealed enclosure is not much different for the Alpine, but notice how much louder the IB sub is? That's because it has a LOT more surface area. Also notice the IB sub makes roughly 4dB more with less than 1/3 the power?! It's all about efficiency, that's why IB lends itself to using larger (and more) drivers because you don't have to worry about large enclosures or large amp power requirements. You can effectively power two 15" subs with 500W from a single mono amp.

Modeling doesn't really tell you much in this case, besides the theoretical differences in SPL. The way a particular sub will sound in IB, as I understand it, is influenced by many factors, and there don't seem to be as many "rules" to follow as you have them with the more popular enclosure types.

What I have learned however, is that the following factors are important:

- sub must have good xmax (excursion) capabilities
- sub Qts should be between 0.4 and 0.6
- sub should have low Fs (resonance frequency)
- sub should be efficient

In your case the particular Alpine sub is okay to use, but you are not getting much bang for your buck so to speak. Also, you may want to set a subsonic filter and turn the gain waaaay down on that amp. It'll be very easy to damage the sub through overexcursion since there is virtually no airspring behind the cone.

Regarding the Pioneers, they don't qualify as good candidates for IB, as one of the most important criteria for IB is a relatively large xmax capability, and they don't have that at all.
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Last edited by kaigoss69; 11-27-2012 at 07:24 PM.
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      11-28-2012, 04:45 AM   #7
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Thanks Kaigoos.
Appreciate your response.
Have you looked at FI IB3 12 inch sub?
It is only 500w rms but since that is designed for IB installations so I think that will sound better than alpine.
What is your take on it?
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      11-28-2012, 06:40 AM   #8
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Setup looks nice. Here is my ib setup in my E92.






Look into the Image dynamice ID10 or IDQ10 for IB setup. Just make sure your rear deck is properly sealed from the back wave of the driver.
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      11-30-2012, 02:05 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR View Post
Setup looks nice. Here is my ib setup in my E92.


Look into the Image dynamice ID10 or IDQ10 for IB setup. Just make sure your rear deck is properly sealed from the back wave of the driver.
Excellent setup.
How did you fit 6X9 on front doors?
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      11-30-2012, 04:40 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Excellent setup.
How did you fit 6X9 on front doors?
Its a 5x7 and we built custom pods that drop right in without modifying the door panels. The ones in the pics are the sealed version, i now have a ported pod in the doors with the 5x7
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      11-30-2012, 04:49 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR View Post
Its a 5x7 and we built custom pods that drop right in without modifying the door panels. The ones in the pics are the sealed version, i now have a ported pod in the doors with the 5x7
Would like to see more photos and how it was done?
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      11-30-2012, 05:54 PM   #12
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Can you make a video? I wanna see how it sounds!
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      11-30-2012, 07:25 PM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Route 16
Can you make a video? I wanna see how it sounds!
Can you make a sound recording of your tv? I wanna hear how it looks.

Seriously man...
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      12-01-2012, 12:46 AM   #14
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      12-01-2012, 02:18 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
Can you make a sound recording of your tv? I wanna hear how it looks.

Seriously man...
Haha what? Sound bite then. I always get these kinds of responses, to me it's just like making a video of how an exhaust system sounds like no biggie. Sorry for having a curious non-audio tech human brain.
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      12-01-2012, 03:09 AM   #16
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Don't go blowing off your trunk lip lol
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      12-01-2012, 05:47 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR View Post
Amzing job...loads of hard work done.

Did you do it yourself?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Route 16 View Post
Can you make a video? I wanna see how it sounds!
I am not sure if that is directed to TMR or me.
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      12-04-2012, 12:58 PM   #18
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Kaigoss and others who are working on IB setup, here is something for inspiration.

It is not true IB, but it gives you some idea how you can mount your IB sub(s).
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Last edited by makkan00; 12-04-2012 at 01:33 PM.
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      12-04-2012, 01:32 PM   #19
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I am not satisfied with Alpine Type X sub. It plays lower frequencies better if frequencies <50Hz.

I have been looking for a better IB driver. I had a discussion with Kaigoss here.

I am considering two drivers JL 12W7 vs Fi IB3 12

Now looking at their specs here is my judgement and score of each

__________________JL 12 W7 ----VS----------Fi IB3 12----------winner
Fs:_________________27.2Hz -----------------23.6Hz-------------Fi
Qts:________________0.482 -------------------0.57-------------JL in my case
Vas:________________66L----------------------83.2L--------------JL
Xmas:_______________29mm------------------ 30mm-------------none
Efficiency (1W/1m)____ 86.2 dB------------------83.2 dB-----------JL
RMS________________750W--------------------550W

My explanation to these:

-Fs: Surely Fi wins and can play lower than JL.
-Qts: For IB ideal 0.7 Qts. If you start adding anything in the boot, Qts will start increasing. My boot is mostly hal full so with Fi sub, it will start to roll off sooner (as explained by John). John also explained that with lower Qts, less power will be required for the driver to reach its max xmas.
-Vas: it should be 10XVas for IB or minimum 4XVas. So if you calculate, JL 10X Vas will be closer to BMW boot space.
-Xmas: difference of 1mm is not significant.
-Efficiency: JL seems more efficient.

So in my perception and going by the attributes on the papers, JL wins it by 3:1.

If a person keeps car's trunk empty and if Fi wins Qts in that case, then the score is 2:2.


Well both of them are good drivers, but I am going to try JL on this occasion.
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      12-05-2012, 12:37 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by makkan00 View Post
Kaigoss and others who are working on IB setup, here is something for inspiration.

It is not true IB, but it gives you some idea how you can mount your IB sub(s).
I had true IB in my E39 M5.

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      12-05-2012, 04:06 AM   #21
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Good luck Makkan.

I'm going to get the Fi one in at the end of next week hopefully. Im sure both of these options will not disappoint
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      12-05-2012, 05:17 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TMR View Post
I had true IB in my E39 M5.

You should be IB specialist. Nice & clean installation.
I guess when you move to IB in Saloons, you never look back. I had IB on my first car. On second I tried to live with sealed box but ended up having IB and so on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mob17 View Post
Good luck Makkan.

I'm going to get the Fi one in at the end of next week hopefully. Im sure both of these options will not disappoint
Thanks Mo and best of luck to you as well. Looking forward to see your installation as well.
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