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      08-14-2012, 01:02 AM   #1
cpcamp08
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Thumbs down Traffic Violation 21460 (a)

Eff. I just got a CA moving violation 21460 (A) - crossing double yellow lines and I was wondering if anyone had recommendations for fighting this charge. Basically I was in the wrong place at the wrong time and I don't have anything substantial to go off. Does anyone have recommendations for fighting City traffic violation tickets? I've read that a "Trial by Declaration" is a good idea since it only provides the citing officer 30 days to write his statement. Most of the time they miss this window of opportunity and the case is thrown out. I had one idea however, and I'll attach a picture for reference for what I'm talking about. Basically I felt that the the centerline wasn't properly identified since it used reflectors instead of actual paint. What do you think? Can I make a case off of this? I happen to be a Civil Engineer and am familiar with the MUTCD which standardizes road markings / signage so hopefully I can find something that proves this as an obsolete method of marking a road centerline. I'll repost as more information becomes available.
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      08-14-2012, 01:12 AM   #2
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If you made a left turn across that line and the cop says you weren't allowed to, I would say go see the judge (edit: with that pic in hand). Sure looks more like a dashed line than a solid one to me.

If you drifted over that line in a drunken stupor, I'd say count your blessings and stop playing around with two tons of pain and suffering.
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      08-14-2012, 08:37 AM   #3
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those even hardly reflect when shine on
i think got a case there

$.02
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      08-14-2012, 10:09 AM   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pangloss View Post
If you made a left turn across that line and the cop says you weren't allowed to, I would say go see the judge (edit: with that pic in hand). Sure looks more like a dashed line than a solid one to me.

If you drifted over that line in a drunken stupor, I'd say count your blessings and stop playing around with two tons of pain and suffering.
I'm going to go through the "Trial by Written Declaration" process. I've done some more reading and it sounds like there is some grey area if you cross over a double yellow line to pull into a driveway.

Luckily I had nothing to drink last night. I was just dropping off some tickets to the Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion to an acquaintance at the BART station.
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      08-14-2012, 10:10 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wuufer001 View Post
those even hardly reflect when shine on
i think got a case there

$.02
I know, right. I think the city that I'm living in is too broke to stripe their streets. I'm going to talk with some of my transportation engineer buddies and get the standard from the MUTCD for double yellow lines. Hopefully I can prove this is an obsolete design.
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      08-14-2012, 10:33 AM   #6
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I see faded and damged dots, no solid double yellow haha
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      08-14-2012, 10:53 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
I see faded and damged dots, no solid double yellow haha
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      08-14-2012, 02:35 PM   #8
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      08-14-2012, 08:29 PM   #9
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I'm also familiar with MUTCD, in which case I think the RPM's are pretty clear regardless of paint/markings. The sandblast jobs sucks which you *could* argue....however, I think your best bet is in the direction of what manner you were ticketed for double yellow. It certainly is not a double-double yellow (median island) so you *could* make a case you were ingress/egress into traffic, etc.....GL
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      08-15-2012, 12:22 AM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cpcamp08 View Post
I'm going to go through the "Trial by Written Declaration" process. I've done some more reading and it sounds like there is some grey area if you cross over a double yellow line to pull into a driveway.

Luckily I had nothing to drink last night. I was just dropping off some tickets to the Rolex Monterey Motorsports Reunion to an acquaintance at the BART station.
It does sound like you have a legitimate complaint. Good luck!
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      08-15-2012, 01:53 AM   #11
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http://www.dmv.ca.gov/pubs/vctop/d11/vc21460.htm

Quote:
The markings as specified in subdivision ( )9 (a), (b), or (c) do not prohibit a driver from crossing the marking ( )10 if (1) turning to the left at ( )11an intersection or into or out of a driveway or private road
I'm not sure what the cop was thinking, but you're allowed to cross them to turn left unless there is a sign saying you can't. The whole point is you're not supposed to drive on the other side of them, lol.

And for those wondering:

Quote:
Raised pavement markers may be used to simulate painted lines described in this section ( )10 if the markers are placed in accordance with standards established by the Department of Transportation.
Although I would argue that this makes dashed vs. solid irrelevant/indiscernible.
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      12-06-2012, 12:02 PM   #12
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Great news! The cop never submitted a response to my Trial by Written Declaration so I'm off the hook. I guess Christmas came early this year. Stoked that I saved myself some cash and the headache of traffic school just by challenging the ticket. Thanks for your responses everyone!
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      12-06-2012, 01:24 PM   #13
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Haha what a joke. CA is so broke they're resorting to any means necessary to raise revenue apparently.
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      12-06-2012, 02:13 PM   #14
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awesome congrats op
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      12-06-2012, 09:03 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinb501 View Post
Haha what a joke. CA is so broke they're resorting to any means necessary to raise revenue apparently.
I honestly doubt this was a revenue raising endeavor, as paying the officer to write the report, appear in court, handle the paper, pay the judge, clerks, etc to process everything involved with this one ticket would probably be a money-losing endeavor. The most likely case was that the officer legitimately thought the OP broke the law, and the officer was mistaken.
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      12-10-2012, 01:17 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by son_of_siggy View Post
I honestly doubt this was a revenue raising endeavor, as paying the officer to write the report, appear in court, handle the paper, pay the judge, clerks, etc to process everything involved with this one ticket would probably be a money-losing endeavor. The most likely case was that the officer legitimately thought the OP broke the law, and the officer was mistaken.
A ticket is revenue for the state whether the person is breaking the law or not.
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      12-10-2012, 02:37 PM   #17
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Those are called botts dots and they are considered a traffic control device when used to divide a roadway.
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      12-12-2012, 04:35 PM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by flyinb501 View Post
A ticket is revenue for the state whether the person is breaking the law or not.
Not always true. Tickets where the person is found guilty and actually pay up CAN be revenue for the state. But it costs money to issue tickets and follow through, and if payment doesn't come, the state/municipality is out that money, in which case they spend more money pursuing.

I happen to work in public safety, so I'm not arguing for argument's sake here.
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