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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > Manual tranny guys. question



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      11-30-2012, 04:00 PM   #23
smallseafishie
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Brakes are meant to stop the car. Use them!

I apply the brakes to slow down the car with the car in whatever gear it is. Keep braking then apply clutch as necessary to prevent RPM's from dropping below 1500RPM and shift into the appropriate gear to get going again (dependent on what the car is moving at).

If coming to a complete stop, I brake until RPM gets at about 1500 RPM, engage clutch, shift into neutral, and then stop.

The only time I engine brake is when I'm going through steep or long downhills.
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      11-30-2012, 04:02 PM   #24
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I generally downshift to slow down the car. I try my best not to do it at high revs but when you nail a downshift really smoothly at a super high RPM, it feels gooood.
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      11-30-2012, 04:52 PM   #25
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Wow,,,I know brakes are ,meant to stop the car but downshifting and using the engine to slow the car will not wear out your clutch or your tranny.(unless you downshift to 1st and let it come to a screeching halt)When engine braking ,your clutch doesn't wear because it is still engaged against the flywheel and as long as your revs aren't high its more or the the compression of the the pistons of the engine in conjunction with the transmission that are slowing you the most.I've had piece of sh1t winter rats that had over 200 thousand miles on them and never a transmission blown. Thats how I was taught to drive and race. If you want to use your brakes to stop you thats fine.Like its been said, they are cheap to replace, but don't push in the clutch, coast and apply the brakes on a long stop,,,,like coming down an off ramp. You're keeping you throwout bearing and clutch plate spinning and rubbing for no reason and that will lower the life of your clutch
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      11-30-2012, 07:37 PM   #26
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Honestly, I just coat in neutral. When I "FEEL" like it... I'll rev match downshift.
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      11-30-2012, 08:05 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Reznick View Post
Wow,,,I know brakes are ,meant to stop the car but downshifting and using the engine to slow the car will not wear out your clutch or your tranny.(unless you downshift to 1st and let it come to a screeching halt)When engine braking ,your clutch doesn't wear because it is still engaged against the flywheel and as long as your revs aren't high its more or the the compression of the the pistons of the engine in conjunction with the transmission that are slowing you the most.I've had piece of sh1t winter rats that had over 200 thousand miles on them and never a transmission blown. Thats how I was taught to drive and race. If you want to use your brakes to stop you thats fine.Like its been said, they are cheap to replace, but don't push in the clutch, coast and apply the brakes on a long stop,,,,like coming down an off ramp. You're keeping you throwout bearing and clutch plate spinning and rubbing for no reason and that will lower the life of your clutch
It's called SYNCHROS... go google what they do and tell me it won't wear on your tranny. Some people on this forum I swear.
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      11-30-2012, 10:09 PM   #28
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Too much craziness about saving synchros & not downshifting, lame. All depends on situation, however, I feel if u pop the clutch at 60mph & just idle coast to a stop while using brakes you are lazy.

The most fun comes from using both engine & brake simultaneously while trying to come to a slow quick, typically on embankments
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      11-30-2012, 10:14 PM   #29
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I'll echo what some others have said:

Coasting in neutral is never a good idea.
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      11-30-2012, 10:55 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GarySL
I'll echo what some others have said:

Coasting in neutral is never a good idea.
Why is coasting in neutral never a good idea ?
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      11-30-2012, 11:33 PM   #31
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Good driving techniques are good driving techniques and bad driving techniques are bad driving techniques whether you are on the street or on the track. The difference is that on the street you are usually well below the limits of the car and you can get away with bad techniques. The fact that you can get away with them does not mean they are not bad techniques.


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      12-01-2012, 12:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by captainaudio
Good driving techniques are good driving techniques and bad driving techniques are bad driving techniques whether you are on the street or on the track. The difference is that on the street you are usually well below the limits of the car and you can get away with bad techniques. The fact that you can get away with them does not mean they are not bad techniques.


CA
??? so what's good and what's bad to you
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      12-01-2012, 12:39 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smallseafishie View Post
Brakes are meant to stop the car. Use them!

I apply the brakes to slow down the car with the car in whatever gear it is. Keep braking then apply clutch as necessary to prevent RPM's from dropping below 1500RPM and shift into the appropriate gear to get going again (dependent on what the car is moving at).

If coming to a complete stop, I brake until RPM gets at about 1500 RPM, engage clutch, shift into neutral, and then stop.

The only time I engine brake is when I'm going through steep or long downhills.
That's what I do.

I downshift out of the necessity of keeping the engine in the powerband and generally don't see a point to engine braking.

Don't coast in neutral ... it's unsafe to not have the car in gear.
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      12-01-2012, 12:44 AM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CJ421 View Post
That's what I do.

I downshift out of the necessity of keeping the engine in the powerband and generally don't see a point to engine braking.

Don't coast in neutral ... it's unsafe to not have the car in gear.
why is it unsafe?
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      12-01-2012, 12:57 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightcashhomie View Post
why is it unsafe?
The throttle is an integral part of controlling the vehicle's motion. It's directly responsible for acceleration/deceleration and weight transfer and therefore traction. Stepping on the gas doesn't upset the vehicle's motion nearly as much as slamming the brakes so in situations where you could do one or the other to avoid a mishap, being in gear is kind of important so you have that option.
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      12-01-2012, 01:24 AM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by straightcashhomie View Post
why is it unsafe?
Back when cars had no ABS it was much safer to brake with the engine, since the open differential in the powered axle provides natural ABS-like functionality.

For modern ABS-equipped cars it no longer matters much, so you might hear various alternative theories of why you should always keep your engine connected to your wheels (like "you should always be ready to accelerate" and stuff like that). Virtually all of them are completely bogus.
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      12-01-2012, 01:28 AM   #37
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From 3rd i downshift to 1 with some braking. I feel i have more control of the car
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      12-01-2012, 01:41 AM   #38
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Depending on the situation. On regular lazy driving, just coast it in neutral and use the regular foot brake. When speeding or fun driving, usually rev match from whatever gear to 2nd or 3rd and brake also. When it drops under 20, I go back into neutral and continue braking. Why do you ask?
Btw, brakes are 10x cheaper if not more (no exaggeration) than a clutch. Clutch work = 3,700 (including parts) and brakes are 100 for the pads (oem 328i) and its a simple DIY or to have it replaced, maybe another 100. So 200 vs. ~4000... choice is obvious, plus you can technically drive with shot brakes. Just stomp on it harder and use the ebrake and DON'T SPEED. Without a clutch, idk how you would do it..
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      12-01-2012, 01:51 AM   #39
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Road and Track

I found the same question posted in a recent Road & Track magazine a few months back. The tech advice was to avoid engine braking due to excessive wear on the motor and brakes are cheaper to replace than engine internals. I used to do this with my old manual car, and it made daily driving fun, but worry the same fun will cause me unnecessary maintenance with my new ride.
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      12-01-2012, 02:34 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Loralie
I found the same question posted in a recent Road & Track magazine a few months back. The tech advice was to avoid engine braking due to excessive wear on the motor and brakes are cheaper to replace than engine internals. I used to do this with my old manual car, and it made daily driving fun, but worry the same fun will cause me unnecessary maintenance with my new ride.
So how did they recommend to brake?
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      12-01-2012, 03:30 AM   #41
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I think what they meant was exteme engine braking

I think what they meant was exteme engine braking.
As in when you skip gears and pop the clutch. As long as you are
doing things smoothly its not putting that much strain on anything.
You guys that are using the brakes only might as well buy and automatic.
How much strain on the car do you think it would happen if you left it in 5th
and braked to a halt, lugging which is damaging to your engine. You need to be in the appropriate gear for the speed range you are driving at.

Last edited by ctuna; 12-01-2012 at 03:37 AM.
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      12-01-2012, 03:37 AM   #42
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i dont want to make anew thread so ill ask a little off topic question...335i MT owners!! What gear are u on when driving around 40mph and overall what are your mph limits in each gear as in when do u change to the next one?
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      12-01-2012, 07:16 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielGonz View Post
It's called SYNCHROS... go google what they do and tell me it won't wear on your tranny. Some people on this forum I swear.
SYNCHROS???? slow your car.??..ok I'm not even gonna touch this one Then its pretty obvious you've never drive an early tranny that doesn't have synchros,,,say like , a motorcycle ,a racecar or a large truck.If its not the engine in conjunction with tranny that slows you.so tell me,,,how does the car manage to slow down, cuz its not SYNCHROS! Some people on this forum ,,I swear.

Last edited by Reznick; 12-01-2012 at 07:27 AM.
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      12-01-2012, 07:50 AM   #44
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Geez, I've been driving a manual trans my whole life, over a million miles (bikes included) and now this thread has me thinking I never even think about it anymore, which is good.

So it depends on how I'm driving in regards to aggressive, back road driving, which I get to do a lot, or just driving in the burbs/city. Aggressive back roads: I rev match/downshift to keep the engine in the part of the powerband I want, so that means braking into a corner, rev matching the engine and shifting to stay on cam (that's an old folks term before all this fancy Vanos stuff). Around the burbs and just commuting, a variation of that: brakes to slow the car as necessary, rev match downshift to keep the engine at the right RPM/gear for the situation. I never use the clutch to actually slow the car down. I used to in my younger days just 'cause it was fun.

Smooth driving is efficient driving and results in long driveline wear. I'm at 196K on the original clutch on the E90.

Being in neutral is bad because you never want to be caught out of gear when a situation occurs when you need to accelerate. This is critically important on a motorcycle...
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