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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Map 5 verus 7 with DCI and 40% E85



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      11-30-2012, 01:12 PM   #1
boostbuddy
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Map 5 verus 7 with DCI and 40% E85

Is there a preference for Map 5 or 7? I'm only DCI right now.

At my current blend, I'm at 96 octane.

If I go to 50/50 E85/91, then I'll be at 98 octane.

Just looking for help as I'm still new to JB4
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      11-30-2012, 01:15 PM   #2
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It's best to log. Map 5 would be a conservative approach but might not necessarily be the most power.
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      11-30-2012, 01:36 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
It's best to log. Map 5 would be a conservative approach but might not necessarily be the most power.
Looks like I need to buy the cable...

In summary, what parameters am I looking at (and desired values) when logging to decide on Map 5 versus 7?
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      11-30-2012, 01:51 PM   #4
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Stock downpipes on the car?

Without a way to log, I'd stick to 5. Even with your e85 mix at the ratio you would be at, I'd still say that's cutting it pretty close. Trims would be big and I'm assuming it'd yank a whole bunch of timing, but a couple of logs would be the only way to know for sure.
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      11-30-2012, 02:00 PM   #5
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With your current setup, I'd go with map 5 or map 2. When I was running the same setup as you, map 2 was definitely the quicker of the two.
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      11-30-2012, 02:49 PM   #6
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if log, look for clean timing and fuel trims not flatlining or maxed out. if you can get away with clean logs on map 7 you should be fine. I ran map 7 on e85 and tune intake only and it was good for mid 12s vs mid to high 12s on map 5. if you can't log, don't run map 7.
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      11-30-2012, 03:07 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smi1gj View Post
if log, look for clean timing and fuel trims not flatlining or maxed out. if you can get away with clean logs on map 7 you should be fine. I ran map 7 on e85 and tune intake only and it was good for mid 12s vs mid to high 12s on map 5. if you can't log, don't run map 7.
What did you trap on e85 and map 7/intake? And if I remember from another post I saw, your car is Auto right?
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      11-30-2012, 03:20 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Notsafe335i View Post
What did you trap on e85 and map 7/intake? And if I remember from another post I saw, your car is Auto right?
I trapped 110 (12.8avg) on map 5 and 112 (12.5 avg) on map 7 dci/e85 mix only

I trapped 113/114 with dps 12.3 avg
i trapped 114/115 with 2nd cat delete 12.1 avg
I trapped 116-117 with new fmic (ER) 11.9 avg
^^map 7^^ with e45-50 mix

that was all on the old map 7 g4 18ohm

I installed g5 but the cars down now for upgraded turbos

yes automatic e90 2008 sedan full weight and always around 1/2 tank with nitto invos

**edit** If you want to run map 7 with e85 you have to log and I recommend having someone who's familiar with adjustments look over them. or send them to terry. you may have to zero all map AFR settings.
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Last edited by AK 335i; 11-30-2012 at 03:26 PM.
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      11-30-2012, 03:28 PM   #9
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When reading logs all the information is important but to narrow down what most people are looking for in logs it would be ignition timing and in the case of E85, fuel trims.

When there is a problem with ignition timing, the timing will reduce 3 degrees during a pull, indicating there was a knock event.

Without diving too deep into the subject, it's usually an indication that the boost level is too aggressive for either the octane, and or, intake air temperatures.

Without diving too deep in the logistics of fuel trims, they are basically a way of the car compensating for fuel, they can compensate up to ~34% additional or reduction in fuel. When people saying they are maxxing out fuel trims they mean the car can only offer an additional 34% more then the fuel mapping in the background fuel tables. So either there is no more fuel left OR 9/10 setups just need their fuel mapping adjusted.

I've probably said too much.

I dont recommend anyone touching their settings without talking with their tuner first and going over all the details and logs beforehand. With the use of E85 and different blends each car needs to be handled on a case by case basis.
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      11-30-2012, 03:29 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smi1gj View Post
I trapped 110 (12.8avg) on map 5 and 112 (12.5 avg) on map 7 dci/e85 mix only

I trapped 113/114 with dps 12.3 avg
i trapped 114/115 with 2nd cat delete 12.1 avg
I trapped 116-117 with new fmic (ER) 11.9 avg
^^map 7^^ with e45-50 mix

that was all on the old map 7 g4 18ohm

I installed g5 but the cars down now for upgraded turbos

yes automatic e90 2008 sedan full weight and always around 1/2 tank with nitto invos

**edit** If you want to run map 7 with e85 you have to log and I recommend having someone who's familiar with adjustments look over them. or send them to terry. you may have to zero all map AFR settings.
Outstanding. I'm installing a G5 JB4 tonight and will be playing with e85 mixes this weekend. Sorry to thread jack, but you noticed that much of a difference with deleting the secondary cats huh? How much of a sound volume increase?

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      11-30-2012, 03:34 PM   #11
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like Jeff said the biggest things to watch are timing and fuel trims but also watch AFR.

and I second that every car truely is unique in its environment and mods as far as how much e85 can be run and how much boost.

yes the 2nd. cat delete was as significant as dps on my car. but again all cars are different. it didn't add much noise.
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      12-01-2012, 01:31 AM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smi1gj View Post
like Jeff said the biggest things to watch are timing and fuel trims but also watch AFR.

and I second that every car truely is unique in its environment and mods as far as how much e85 can be run and how much boost.

yes the 2nd. cat delete was as significant as dps on my car. but again all cars are different. it didn't add much noise.
I know slightly off topic but do you have any vids of the 2nd cat delete? I've been thinking about doing it for a while but can't find any... I want to see an e90 with catless downpipes and 2nd cat delete but everything else still there including resonators.
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      12-01-2012, 06:56 AM   #13
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It depends on your JB4 board

G5 boards target 19psi in map 7 and is only recommended w/ 103 octane or greater. I can tell you right now that the LPFP/HPFP will have trouble keeping up with that target without a fuel table reflash, or methanol supplementing fueling. You'll need to log the HPFP/LPHP as well as the usual trims, ignition timing, FFMAX, PWM, AFR, and look at your OL and max boost settings so you don't trigger the JB4's safe modes.

G4 15ohm/18ohm boards target 16.5psi, which is below the map 5 target of 17.5. From my experience, an E50 mix will max out FFMAX and PWM value's on the 18ohm board targeting the full 17.5.
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