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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30



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      02-13-2014, 04:09 PM   #1
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Pennzoil Platinum European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-30

I'm sure nobody wants yet another oil thread... but

I'm trying to clarify because this Pennzoil oil appears not to actually exist although it's recommended officially by BMW here:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content...hetic-oils.pdf

I found the Pennzoil European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-40 with LL-01. But the 5W-30 is only LL-04 approved.

Here are three options on amazon:
1) Pennzoil Ultra European 5W-40
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006A49KJC/...=IIP1RT0SVSSWW
2) Pennzoil Ultra European 5W-30
http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-55002...pennzoil+ultra
3) Pennzoil Platinum Ultra European Diesel 5W-30
http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-55001...ultra+european

On Pennzoil's website specifications, only the Euro Ultra 5W-40 is LL-01 approved.
The 5W-30 is only LL-04, and that's the one recommended by BMW? Is there a mistake?

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      02-13-2014, 05:18 PM   #2
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why are you set on getting that specific oil? Motul has significantly better options
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      02-13-2014, 05:23 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED View Post
why are you set on getting that specific oil? Motul has significantly better options
Because of reports I read from Blackstone Labs about oil tests suggested some of the best options was the Pennzoil Ultra.
And I feel comfortable using the same oil used by Ferrari USA in their cars revving to 9000rpm.
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      02-13-2014, 05:26 PM   #4
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its good oil iv used it before but my car seems to like redline 5w30, it runs quieter and temps stay cooler but i havent done a lab analysis on it yet
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      02-13-2014, 05:33 PM   #5
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and i think for US it only needs to be bmw LL-01 approved LL-04 isnt good for use in the US because of the gasoline quality and the fuel diluting the oil
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      02-13-2014, 07:32 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphss View Post
Because of reports I read from Blackstone Labs about oil tests suggested some of the best options was the Pennzoil Ultra.
And I feel comfortable using the same oil used by Ferrari USA in their cars revving to 9000rpm.
A high revving V8 has different needs then a motor that uses the oil system to cool and lubricate two 1000C (that’s Celsius not Fahrenheit) turbos, I would use an oil with a high flash point rather than good sheering/foaming resistance or even high detergent levels.

Ester based Motul is both BMW LL-01 approved and has a higher flash point.
224C for the Pennzoil vs. 238C for Motul 300v

To each his own I guess.
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      02-13-2014, 09:10 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED View Post
why are you set on getting that specific oil? Motul has significantly better options
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      02-13-2014, 09:26 PM   #8
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I don't see any Motul oil on BMW's approved synthetic oil list.
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      02-14-2014, 11:04 AM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphss View Post
I don't see any Motul oil on BMW's approved synthetic oil list.
If you're still under warranty, I can see your concerns. Otherwise, there are many other better options out there...
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      02-14-2014, 12:44 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphss View Post
I don't see any Motul oil on BMW's approved synthetic oil list.
oil companies pay money to be on the list...just like any company that pays TV stations to show their ads.


https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...00-x-cess-5w40
API Standards: API SN/CF
OEM Approvals : BMW LL-01; FIAT 9.55535 - H2/M2/N2; GM-OPEL LL-B025; MB-Approval 229.5/226.5; PORSCHE A40; RENAULT RN0710/RN0700; VW 502 00, 505 00

https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...%5Brange%5D=25
API Standards: API SN/CF
OEM Approvals : BMW LL-01 ; MB-Approval 229.5 ; PORSCHE A40 ; VW 502 00 / 505 00
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      02-14-2014, 12:46 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphss View Post
I don't see any Motul oil on BMW's approved synthetic oil list.
...you're perfectly right.
the LL-01 Penzoil is the one you should use, I believe there is an error on the BMW approved oils list, it's not the 5W-30 but the 5W-40 version that has the LL01 mark of approval. For the moment this is the best oil you can buy for our cars in NA. German Castrol 0W-30 LL-01 is also a good choice for those driving in a colder climate.
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      02-14-2014, 12:57 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CHECKERED View Post
A high revving V8 has different needs then a motor that uses the oil system to cool and lubricate two 1000C (that’s Celsius not Fahrenheit) turbos, I would use an oil with a high flash point rather than good sheering/foaming resistance or even high detergent levels.

Ester based Motul is both BMW LL-01 approved and has a higher flash point.
224C for the Pennzoil vs. 238C for Motul 300v

To each his own I guess.
...it's not only about the flash point. The NOACK value is also important for BMW engines as well as many other parameters you might not know about. Therefore I would use only what's on BMW list. Motul was not last time when I checked.
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      02-14-2014, 01:32 PM   #13
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      03-12-2015, 11:59 AM   #14
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I have been using Motul 8100 in my A4 & Q7, its pretty good stuff, I might also try the Penzoil for my e90, but its harder to find except on amazon
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      03-12-2015, 12:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coupegt View Post
I have been using Motul 8100 in my A4 & Q7, its pretty good stuff, I might also try the Penzoil for my e90, but its harder to find except on amazon
I purchased mine from Amazon. I am using Pennzoil Ultra oils now in all my cars other than the e90 M3.

In my N54 e90 the Pennzoil Ultra Euro increased the normal temp of the engine slightly to about one line colder than the middle. This was a bit hotter than the Liqui Moli under the same conditions, but still colder than the middle and I think overall better for the engine.
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      03-12-2015, 12:30 PM   #16
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Penzoil Ultra is Group 3 and the Motul 8100 is Group 4, to my understanding Group 4 is Full syn and Group 3 is not ???
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      03-12-2015, 12:34 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tphss View Post
I'm sure nobody wants yet another oil thread... but

I'm trying to clarify because this Pennzoil oil appears not to actually exist although it's recommended officially by BMW here:
http://www.bimmerfile.com/wp-content...hetic-oils.pdf

I found the Pennzoil European Formula Ultra SAE 5W-40 with LL-01. But the 5W-30 is only LL-04 approved.

Here are three options on amazon:
1) Pennzoil Ultra European 5W-40
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B006A49KJC/...=IIP1RT0SVSSWW
2) Pennzoil Ultra European 5W-30
http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-55002...pennzoil+ultra
3) Pennzoil Platinum Ultra European Diesel 5W-30
http://www.amazon.com/Pennzoil-55001...ultra+european

On Pennzoil's website specifications, only the Euro Ultra 5W-40 is LL-01 approved.
The 5W-30 is only LL-04, and that's the one recommended by BMW? Is there a mistake?

It' all made by Shell and Shell is the new supplier for BMW (before: Castrol)

If your are into Motul, then I would go for the 8100 X-max 0W40: https://www.motul.com/us/en-US/produ...iscosity%5D=44
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      03-12-2015, 01:04 PM   #18
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I posted these in the "other forums" but FYI anyway...

Quote:
Bumping this thread again, but figure this would clarify future discuss since these questions pop up pretty often.


For N54, I would highly recommend a true synthetic oil, particularly if it is tracked or driven aggressively. A true group IV (PAO-based) or V (ester-based) oil will withstand high temperature much better than those "synthetic" group III oil, which is just highly refined mineral stock oil with synthetic additives.


Sadly, this kind of information isn't easily found in most marketing materials published by the oil companies, but the MSDS of each oil is often a good source of information. Basically you want to look for high concentration of synthetic oil base (e.g. dec-1-ene trimmers hydrogenated; pentadecane,7-methylene) instead of things like distilled petroleum, or hydrotreated heavy paraffinic. True group IV and V synthetic holds their viscosity and remain stable at elevated temperature, unlike group III oils (i.e. the 5w-30 BMW oil used in north america)


FYI, Castrol Edge 0w-40 A3/B4 and Castrol Edge 0w-30 A3/B4 (aka German Castrol) are true group IV synthetic oil and are what I use for my car ever since I started tracking it.

But seriously, never believe what some people say about their choice of engine oils unless their have hard facts (oil analysis, chemical compositions) to back their claim. Do not deviate much from factory recommended oil weight, but choose oil with true synthetic base stock, and meet BMW LL-01 and also Porsche A40 certifications.
Quote:
The motul 8100 is just an average group III oil from reading its msds. For the price they charge for Motul, there are much better oils out there FYI. The 300V is a true group V synthetic oil, but it is marketed as a racing oil so it may lacks in detergents that are need for a street car. Go with castrol edge 0w40 or Mobil 1 0w40 if I were you.
Quote:
Feel free to read up on the MSDS for the 8100 yourself... http://www.quickfds.com/out/17222-10...948-010292.pdf
Quote:
I wouldn't trust what the manufacturers claim in their marketing materials unless they are willing to show the exact chemical compositions of the oil, which they never will... Plus, those Motul oils are pretty darn expensive and they don't have BMW LL-01 or equivalent certifications. Not worth the trouble for me personally to put non-certified oils in these engines.

Well, Mobil 1 0w-40 only says it is synthetic base stocks, so who knows really. But it has the right certifications, so it should be fine for spirited street use with 5-6k ml OCI at the very least...

However, it can be confirmed that Castrol 0w-30 and 0w-40 is mostly PAO base stock from their MSDS. Along with healthy dose of anti-wear additives, these are the reasons why I am using these oils exclusively for now, plus they are reasonably priced at $25/5qts from Amazon or Walmart (the only reason I would go to a Walmart, lol). So if I have to change it every two months during the track seasons (I typically do 1-2 track days + 500-700 street miles each month), it wouldn't be too expensive.

FYI, you can find the MSDS at these links...
http://www.msds.exxonmobil.com/IntApps/psims/psims.aspx
http://msdspds.castrol.com/msdspds/m...rm&sitelang=EN
tldr version, go with Castrol edge 0w-40 A3/B4 for the money...
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      03-14-2015, 04:26 PM   #19
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Do u recommend castrol 0w 40 over Mobil1 0w 40 ? I feel castrol 40 wt is thicker (just layman feel), im running M1 this time but it engine ticks are little louder and annoying, lubrication feels perfect though ... castrol 0w 30 burns too quick cant put in till turbos get replaced
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      03-14-2015, 05:49 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 007_e350 View Post
Do u recommend castrol 0w 40 over Mobil1 0w 40 ? I feel castrol 40 wt is thicker (just layman feel), im running M1 this time but it engine ticks are little louder and annoying, lubrication feels perfect though ... castrol 0w 30 burns too quick cant put in till turbos get replaced
I dont post on oil threads but o well...

Castrol 0w40 and mobil 0w40 are alike for most purposes...

Castrol 0w40 13.5 79 ll01 Germany
Mobil0w40 13.3 75 ll01 usa?

The first number is viscosity at 100c, your normal operating temp. 13.5 is a 40wt oil on the low end. Second number is at 40c (colder number, you like this to be low as possible). Third is bmw ll01 approved. Fourth is country made. Both are also a3/b4 which means hths 3.5 or higher. Personally, i dont prefer mobil1.
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Last edited by Sgop335; 03-14-2015 at 05:59 PM.
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