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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > Suspension | Brakes | Chassis > Sway bars for the 335i?



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      08-14-2007, 03:31 PM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sg335 View Post
I think some of these tuners just build the largest bar set they can because some buyers are only interested in buying the "largest/best" set on the market because they can brag about it. And for most of these drivers or show cars (nothing wrong with that scene) in really doesn't matter. I see all too often very large upgrades to front bars on real wheel drive cars which only help to increase an already persistant understeer condition. I had Racing Dynamic bars on my E36 and have no problem with RD as a company, but 30mm seems overkill on the E9x platform. Interesting that they also think a smaller rear bar than the H&R is better. You also have to remember that stiffer bars which may reduce body roll is not always the desired "faster" way around a corner. Sometimes some body roll produces quicker cornering speeds and allows the tires to make contact with the ground vs. lifting wheels mid corner. Like I said before, my preference is to tune with springs/dampers first, then address tire size and pressures, and finally address the sways later if needed.
It is an improvement and not overkill

E90/E92 Sway Bar Sizes

Front RD Sport 30 mm vs stock 26.5mm vs H&R 27mm

Rear RD Sport 24mm vs stock 13mm vs H&R 20mm


Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
Yeah, possibly.

I am not interested in the biggest, thickest I can find. I want something that will give me flatter cornering for street use. More important to me than having the thickest bars out there is going with a reputable company who has done the proper R&D and will help the car handle better and more neutral.

I believe that H&R Sport is well known and respected, and plan to stick with them.
It is not about biggest and thickest. It is about how the car feels plus being able to adjust. We sell H&R sways here all the time but feel there could be more improvement over the improvement that H&R already provides over stock. H&R bars are non-adjustable

RD Sport/Racing Dynamics is a tuner company that only works on BMW's and we believe in tuner brands. Once the bars come out, we will put them on some cars and do some testing and provide an honest opinion.
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      08-14-2007, 05:25 PM   #24
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Originally Posted by ward View Post
swaybars make a great upgrade

I think upgraded sways would be the single most beneficial upgrade possible for this car
Just curious, do you have a 335?
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      08-14-2007, 05:47 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sam@AutoTalent View Post
It is an improvement and not overkill

E90/E92 Sway Bar Sizes

Front RD Sport 30 mm vs stock 26.5mm vs H&R 27mm

Rear RD Sport 24mm vs stock 13mm vs H&R 20mm




It is not about biggest and thickest. It is about how the car feels plus being able to adjust. We sell H&R sways here all the time but feel there could be more improvement over the improvement that H&R already provides over stock. H&R bars are non-adjustable

RD Sport/Racing Dynamics is a tuner company that only works on BMW's and we believe in tuner brands. Once the bars come out, we will put them on some cars and do some testing and provide an honest opinion.
FOr autocross & track junkies, yes they may want/need adjustability. But for me, street driven only and daily driver, I don't care it isn't adjustable, so as long as they feel good and are a good improvment overstock. I am just looking for decreased body roll and a more neutral feel. For street use if a bar is R&Ded properly, there should be no need to adjustment (again for street use only), I don't think people are going to want a car that oversteers on purpose for street use, thats just asking for trouble. If I am not mistaken that is what adjustablity does with sway bars, it lessens or strenghens the abilty to over/under steer or remain neutral. Also you don't want so much added stiffness that there is ZERO body roll, cause then you are putting undo stress on other components.

I am just looking for a happy medium for street use only.

I had H-sport sways on my S4 and they were perfect, less body roll than stock and neutral handling. I am trying to achieve the same thing here.
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      08-14-2007, 06:32 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by leftcoastman View Post
Just curious, do you have a 335?
you can clearly see what I drive in my sig, or in that stuff under my picture dealy

I've run RD sways on my previous cars and from what they did to my E30, I think that if they made the same difference in the E90 that they did to that car it'd reduce my main gripe about the handling of this car

do you think there's something special about the 335 that's not common to a 325 suspension wise?
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      08-14-2007, 06:39 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
FOr autocross & track junkies, yes they may want/need adjustability. But for me, street driven only and daily driver, I don't care it isn't adjustable, so as long as they feel good and are a good improvment overstock. I am just looking for decreased body roll and a more neutral feel. For street use if a bar is R&Ded properly, there should be no need to adjustment (again for street use only), I don't think people are going to want a car that oversteers on purpose for street use, thats just asking for trouble. If I am not mistaken that is what adjustablity does with sway bars, it lessens or strenghens the abilty to over/under steer or remain neutral. Also you don't want so much added stiffness that there is ZERO body roll, cause then you are putting undo stress on other components.

I am just looking for a happy medium for street use only.

I had H-sport sways on my S4 and they were perfect, less body roll than stock and neutral handling. I am trying to achieve the same thing here.
I'm really glad you started this thread. I have pretty much the same goals that you have. I want to have more control in the turns, with less roll. I was going to go with a sport suspension first, but after reading this thread I think I'll go for the H&R sways (front and back), then see how the car reacts before I do anything else.
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      08-15-2007, 12:40 AM   #28
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Same boat going UUC

I have the same goals as the OP. Additionally I am taking my car to the track and would love quicker turn in but I'm not interested in lowering or reducing ride comfort.

I'm having the UUC Swaybarbarians installed later this week by a Dinan outfit in San Rafael. Even though they don't sell these they had nothing but good things to say about them. I then called UUC and was very impressed with their attitude, knowledge and passion for their product.

I'll let you know how it feels once I have them in.
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      08-15-2007, 10:21 AM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ward View Post
you can clearly see what I drive in my sig, or in that stuff under my picture dealy

I've run RD sways on my previous cars and from what they did to my E30, I think that if they made the same difference in the E90 that they did to that car it'd reduce my main gripe about the handling of this car

do you think there's something special about the 335 that's not common to a 325 suspension wise?
Woah - cool the defensiveness down bucko.

I believe the suspension on the 325 is different than the 335i, especially the coupe. The E92 is lower, likely stiffer, weighs more and the chassis is different. Do I think the oversteer/understeer condition might be different? Yes.

You can't apply blanket statements such as "stiffen a rear bar and it'll cure understeer." There are too many variables.

I think everyone needs to understand where people come from. S4to335, for example, is a hardcore road course guy who has taken his 335i to the track. When he says X appears to solve problem Y that he experienced on the track, I follow his logic.


Your logic appears to be based on:

1) It helped my E30
2) It'd probably help my 325
3) Therefore, it will help your 335i also!

Don't take offense. It's just meant to clarify.
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      08-15-2007, 10:42 AM   #30
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Originally Posted by normtrum View Post
I'm really glad you started this thread. I have pretty much the same goals that you have. I want to have more control in the turns, with less roll. I was going to go with a sport suspension first, but after reading this thread I think I'll go for the H&R sways (front and back), then see how the car reacts before I do anything else.

The adjustability is not something I will adjust before and after I got to the track...it is just so I have more options as to where to put the car. I have played a bunch with rear sway bars on audis..from the stock 12mm to 16mm..to 19mm and even 22mm bars. The 19 and 22 had adjustment..and it really helped get the car where I wanted it to be. I still recommend that even you street-only guys consider an adjustable rear sway bar to be able to get what you want. I have no experience (ZERO) experience with non-adjustable H&R sway bars on E90 platform cars..so they may be fine in terms of diameter, design, and stiffness...or they may not. My suggestion is always to try to get a ride with someone that has the set up that you are considering. That is the only way you will know what you are getting. Having an adjustable bar doesnt lock you into something.

Caveat emptor.
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      08-15-2007, 10:46 AM   #31
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Originally Posted by S4to335 View Post
The adjustability is not something I will adjust before and after I got to the track...it is just so I have more options as to where to put the car. I have played a bunch with rear sway bars on audis..from the stock 12mm to 16mm..to 19mm and even 22mm bars. The 19 and 22 had adjustment..and it really helped get the car where I wanted it to be. I still recommend that even you street-only guys consider an adjustable rear sway bar to be able to get what you want. I have no experience (ZERO) experience with non-adjustable H&R sway bars on E90 platform cars..so they may be fine in terms of diameter, design, and stiffness...or they may not. My suggestion is always to try to get a ride with someone that has the set up that you are considering. That is the only way you will know what you are getting. Having an adjustable bar doesnt lock you into something.

Caveat emptor.
Good stuff man. I've always liked your car's set up.
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      08-15-2007, 10:51 AM   #32
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Originally Posted by S4to335 View Post
The adjustability is not something I will adjust before and after I got to the track...it is just so I have more options as to where to put the car. I have played a bunch with rear sway bars on audis..from the stock 12mm to 16mm..to 19mm and even 22mm bars. The 19 and 22 had adjustment..and it really helped get the car where I wanted it to be. I still recommend that even you street-only guys consider an adjustable rear sway bar to be able to get what you want. I have no experience (ZERO) experience with non-adjustable H&R sway bars on E90 platform cars..so they may be fine in terms of diameter, design, and stiffness...or they may not. My suggestion is always to try to get a ride with someone that has the set up that you are considering. That is the only way you will know what you are getting. Having an adjustable bar doesnt lock you into something.

Caveat emptor.
agreed, the adjustability gives you options to tune the handling of the car a bit. I wouldn't buy non adjustable bars.

the whole point of changing the sways is to change the balance of the car so it's more to your liking, upgrading to adjustable bars gets you the option to "fine tune" slightly

if you get non adjustable ones and still don't like the balance you have to go buy new bars and redo the whole install
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      08-15-2007, 11:24 AM   #33
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Originally Posted by ward View Post
agreed, the adjustability gives you options to tune the handling of the car a bit. I wouldn't buy non adjustable bars.

the whole point of changing the sways is to change the balance of the car so it's more to your liking, upgrading to adjustable bars gets you the option to "fine tune" slightly

if you get non adjustable ones and still don't like the balance you have to go buy new bars and redo the whole install

And apparently the install on our cars is not very easy. I have done tons of rear bar installs on Audis...piece of cake...
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      08-15-2007, 12:05 PM   #34
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      08-15-2007, 12:32 PM   #35
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The more I read, I am now thinking about doing H&R Sway bars, KW V2 Coilovers, performance street alignment, and corner balance all at the same time.

S4to335i: I gave Brad a call and he seemed very nice and helpful, thanks for the recommendation. If I decide to pull the trigger on all this (which is very likley right now) I will go with him for everything. They seem like a quality shop who deal with a lot of high end cars.
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      08-15-2007, 01:11 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by TRZ06 View Post
The more I read, I am now thinking about doing H&R Sway bars, KW V2 Coilovers, performance street alignment, and corner balance all at the same time.

S4to335i: I gave Brad a call and he seemed very nice and helpful, thanks for the recommendation. If I decide to pull the trigger on all this (which is very likley right now) I will go with him for everything. They seem like a quality shop who deal with a lot of high end cars.
Cool.
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      08-15-2007, 01:15 PM   #37
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Cool.
Is that who did your Psss9 install?

Did you have any issues with the DSC with adding coilovers?
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      08-15-2007, 02:41 PM   #38
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Is that who did your Psss9 install?

Did you have any issues with the DSC with adding coilovers?
No, Navid @ Extreme Performance did my pss9 install...but he recently sold his shop. I have known Navid for 10 years..he moved to Portland. Navid raced e36 and e46 M3s...and Evos...and he charged me hardly nothing for the install. Brad is who did all the mod removal on my Audi before I traded in back in. I know Brad from Autocrossing...Brad installed my exhaust on my 335i too.
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      08-15-2007, 02:42 PM   #39
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DSC? stabilization control?
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      08-15-2007, 02:53 PM   #40
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DSC? stabilization control?
Correct, the Stability control system. I don't think the stock suspension has any electrical links to the DSC systems. But I didn't know if changing out basicly the entire suspension would throw off the DSC system at all, or trip any fault codes
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      08-15-2007, 03:24 PM   #41
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      08-18-2007, 09:02 AM   #42
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XI Sways?

Any sway bars yet for the 335xi?
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      08-18-2007, 04:01 PM   #43
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Thanks OP, I have been obessing over this same issue for the last month or so. This thread has definitely helped me to make up my mind.
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      08-18-2007, 08:30 PM   #44
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Thanks OP, I have been obessing over this same issue for the last month or so. This thread has definitely helped me to make up my mind.
I'm with you. This thread has helped me quite a bit.
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