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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > To intercool or not...



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      12-04-2012, 01:03 AM   #23
ign335i
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Cobb Stage 1 + FMIC actually performs better then Stage 2 Cobb with just downpipes. It's been proven time and time again.

You might squeeze more mid-range out of downpipes, but top end and consitency will show the intercooler performing better.
While that may be true on a flash tune, I don't think it is necessarily so on the JB4 with autotuning and learned values. I guess my point was that below 15psi, no matter the map, I'd probably prefer DPs unless I was somewhere very hot. Just for reference I have an fmic and no dps, so I really don't have a horse in this race lol.
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      12-04-2012, 01:48 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
Cobb Stage 1 + FMIC actually performs better then Stage 2 Cobb with just downpipes. It's been proven time and time again.

You might squeeze more mid-range out of downpipes, but top end and consitency will show the intercooler performing better.
While that may be true on a flash tune, I don't think it is necessarily so on the JB4 with autotuning and learned values. I guess my point was that below 15psi, no matter the map, I'd probably prefer DPs unless I was somewhere very hot. Just for reference I have an fmic and no dps, so I really don't have a horse in this race lol.
is Los Angeles considered a hot place lol? i mean it gets over 100f in summer
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      12-04-2012, 01:52 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
While that may be true on a flash tune, I don't think it is necessarily so on the JB4 with autotuning and learned values. I guess my point was that below 15psi, no matter the map, I'd probably prefer DPs unless I was somewhere very hot. Just for reference I have an fmic and no dps, so I really don't have a horse in this race lol.
You make it sound like there's a significant difference in the tunes with this aspect. Even if you add DPs, you might momentarily have more power (glory power pull), but the minute the OEM intercooler becomes heatsoaked, your IATs are going to skyrocket which the factory DME will sense & yank timing (reducing performance) and then the JB4 will have to reduce boost (2nd reduction in power).

Jeff's point is that the Stage 1+ (Tune + FMIC) COBB Maps can be made more aggressive then the Stage 2 (Tune + DPs) because the aftermarket IC does the most important thing - significantly reduces IATs & allows for a more aggressive tune (more aggressive timing, boost targets) because the cooled air.


Quote:
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is Los Angeles considered a hot place lol? i mean it gets over 100f in summer
If it's not between 40-60 degree all year, get an IC. This is why Meth is much more popular on the West Coast -- You not only get an octane bump (up from that 91 shit gas), but also get the added cooling/IAT reduction.
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      12-04-2012, 07:07 AM   #26
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I'm getting one shortly. My 335 is also my daily and I think it makes sense for the car's longevity.
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      12-04-2012, 11:05 AM   #27
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FMIC should be first thing you should get when you start modding/increasing boost.
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      12-04-2012, 12:37 PM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
While that may be true on a flash tune, I don't think it is necessarily so on the JB4 with autotuning and learned values. I guess my point was that below 15psi, no matter the map, I'd probably prefer DPs unless I was somewhere very hot. Just for reference I have an fmic and no dps, so I really don't have a horse in this race lol.
Without some hard data I feel anyone would just be guessing. As mentioned previously from me and others the stock intercooler is inefficient even on stock boost.

I had downpipes before an intercooler on this car, but I also ran meth injection for several years, so heat soak wasn't as much of an issue, but still something to consider in terms of improving all around efficiency.

Depending on your elevation, temps, humidity, and heat soak there could be a significant gain of an intercooler, and even more for back to back pulls.

There is nothing special about a Cobb flash stage 1 VS a JB4, it's just the tuning within to optimize the performance of your modifications. IF you optimize the JB4 tune or optimize the COBB tune, you are going to land your power extremely close.

There is no magic tune or magic power found, generally speaking.

Boost is boost
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Fuel is Fuel

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      12-04-2012, 02:06 PM   #29
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My point is that with a flash tune you need to tune to the specific mods. With a piggyback you just autotune it. So I could see why running an OTS map with different components could change the different HP gains. I am convinced though that if you autotuned or did ATR on a setup with DPs vs FMIC that you would see more power on DPs under 15psi or so of boost. Additionally you would have quicker spool with the DPs. That's all I was getting at with the tune comment. That's my 2c on this.
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      12-04-2012, 03:29 PM   #30
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DPs and a FMIC should b the very first things on the mod list.
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      12-04-2012, 03:43 PM   #31
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      12-04-2012, 04:07 PM   #32
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If you don't want to do methanol and you want cooler air intake temperatures to improve longevity and run consistency (prevent heat soak, especially if you're tuned with a DCI) everyone who tunes and uses a DCI or tunes and drives in a place that isn't really far away from the equator should get one. There are plenty of ways to do this without spending $1000 if you don't want to do that. Lots of brand believers will tell you that you need to spend as much as they did, but I've read of plenty of some of the really high boosted cars spending a negligible amount to achieve the same outcome (or better, arguably) as those who drop $1-2k.

It comes down to deciding what your goals are or what you want out of the car, investigating your options and the archives on these forums and deciding what the best fit is and analyzing each choice's pros and cons.

Do LOTS of reading about FMICs and methanol- it'll help more than everyone who contributes to this thread due to how much information there is about this from prior threads and other websites google finds.
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      12-04-2012, 04:13 PM   #33
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I would say you need an intercooler. It's a shame to have all the mods you have and save on the intercooler that will give you more consistant boost, and run cooler overall.
Honestly other than a tune, the second mod I would do is an upgraded intercooler.
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      12-04-2012, 04:51 PM   #34
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Intercooler> all mods on the N54. This thread should be done with.
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      12-04-2012, 07:36 PM   #35
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Btw, an intercooler won't increase longevity, it drives up PWM since the turbos have to work harder to hit the same boost. I agree though intercooler is a sweet mod, and its the only mod besides turn and DCI that I have.
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      12-04-2012, 08:02 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RimasRS View Post
Your car equipped with oem intercooler for oem boost. If you are increasing boost you have bigger pressure you need bigger intercooler.

Pressed air is becoming hot YOU need intercooler.
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      12-04-2012, 08:23 PM   #37
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All of the best reasons are already listed... so I'm going to keep it simple. Just do it!
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      12-04-2012, 09:13 PM   #38
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Yes, the intercooler is beneficial in every aspect. If you want to keep the power you make, it's best to get an intercooler. The factory intercooler is prone to heat soak even on a factory tune and the time it takes to recovery from being heat soaked is long. An upgraded bar and plate like our intercooler will help keep intake temps low and maintain faster recovery between pulls.

Thanks!

Michael
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