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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Decisions, decisions...



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      08-04-2012, 03:54 PM   #1
ritjeff
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Decisions, decisions...

Hello everyone! I have been reading this and other BMW forums for quite some time, but finally just got around to actually setting up an account on E90Post. As I have had my 2009 LCI 335xi 6MT for about a year now, I have been reading up on the various tuning options.

Personal opinions aside, what are the actual meaningful differences between the latest Procede and JB4? There seem to be fans of both on here, but I can not quite figure out the reason for the price difference between the two. Besides that nice tuning comparison chart, which seems a little outdated, I just can not come up with any clear differentiation between the two piggybacks.

If anyone could point me toward the right resource(s) to understand this, as well as any empirical data regarding the long term effects of these on the N54 platform, I would be very grateful. Thanks!!
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      08-04-2012, 03:57 PM   #2
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You might want to post this in the new users and general question thread, or look in there to see if this has already been answered, the guys in that thread will always help you out.
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      08-04-2012, 04:23 PM   #3
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To be honest and not biased because I do own a JB4, my purchase was solely based on price since both piggybacks produce almost identical power numbers.

I can't justify $900 for a piggy back when a comparable piggy back is $400. I bought mine used for $300 so go figure that one out.

It'll really depend on your needs. If you wanna mod slowly and learn as you go along (with a budget) JB4 is for you. If you want E85 maps, JB4 is for you. If you're after AFR control, Cobb an pro-tuning is for you. If you want other types of control such as timing and yadda yadda, maybe Procede is for you.

I would decide want you want to spend first and what you are specifically looking for.
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      08-04-2012, 04:40 PM   #4
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I think Zebra99 said it about right all the tunes are pretty much the same when you compare apples to apples if you are running mods and a map that is the same boost the cars will all perform somewhat the same it just depends on how you want to achieve that goal and which tune to accomplish it.

Me I am personally running Cobb FBO stg2+ aggressive, I went this route for ease of use no tools involved the other two you have to go into the ECU which takes all of 30 minutes or so depending on your mechanical ingenuity, me I am just not that guy so Cobb is for me.

I have never run JB4 and have always in the back of my mind kind of wanted to because it is hard to not acknowledge that the best times and multitude of different people running the tune who have achieved great results run the tune.

Also Terry answers any and all questions even if you do not run his tune, he is always willing to answer, so support second to none.

So for me it comes back to having to deal with the whole ECU deal again, and I am just not that guy.
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      08-06-2012, 04:39 PM   #5
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Thanks. I am going to contact the manufacturers for more info. I sent an email to Vishnu with some questions, but no response so far.

I plan to contact the others as well.
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      08-06-2012, 07:55 PM   #6
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Here's a question for you...
What's more Important to you?

$$$$ first? Or is it tunability? Or ease of install/uninstall?

If its $$ then it's best you talk to Terry.
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      08-06-2012, 09:14 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Zebra99 View Post
Here's a question for you...
What's more Important to you?

$$$$ first? Or is it tunability? Or ease of install/uninstall?

If its $$ then it's best you talk to Terry.
$$ is always a factor, but of much lower importance than long term effects to my car of choosing one route of mods over another. I am not that concerned about ease of install, though easier would be a nice bonus.

I do not have current plans to do any tracking or hard core racing (or much else in the near term beyond initial tune). I just would like to make it quicker in the most efficient way without seriously reducing the lifespan of the engine components. I could get more aggressive with it later, but right now this is my daily driver with a long commute.

As a Systems Engineer by trade, I feel the need to measure and quantify my alternatives on the way to making a decision, even though this will drive me crazy in short order.
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      08-06-2012, 09:23 PM   #8
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OP, I've tried everything (I even still own a JB4 for gauges). Engineer to Engineer, go COBB and don't look back.
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      08-06-2012, 09:28 PM   #9
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Ive used vishune v4 and jb4 in my opinion vishnue is way better. less than 100 miles of driving with the jb4 my check engine light came on. i look it off and put the Vishnu back on.
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      08-06-2012, 09:55 PM   #10
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I wouldn't say the Vishnu is better just because in your case it caused a Check engine light.

To be honest with you, JB4 ran perfectly. No codes, no misfires no nothing...

I went COBB because I prefer their tuning (to say the least, AFR control, Timing control is amazing! Car feels much more consistent run after run, etc...)
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      08-06-2012, 10:04 PM   #11
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Ive used vishune v4 and jb4 in my opinion vishnue is way better. less than 100 miles of driving with the jb4 my check engine light came on. i look it off and put the Vishnu back on.
I would take this with a grain of salt, especially when he can't identify the tune correctly (its Vishnu, not Vishune).

OP, since it sounds like you basically want a bulletproof tune that's going to place reliability above "balls-out" power, go with the COBB. Flash based tunes keep the OEM DME safety settings intact & provide a more stabile tune by flashing the DME more in-depth then either of the piggys allow (which instead intercept & retransmit different signals to the DME).

If you are interested in running meth, yes either of the piggys will do a better job than the COBB tune will, but the most important question ANYONE should ask themselves before buying a tune (or even asking the forum):

What are you looking to do w/ your car? How much do you want to mod?

Once you answer those 2 questions & look into all the options, you'll have a relative idea of what suits you best
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      08-06-2012, 10:19 PM   #12
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OP, I hope that you realize you are just going to get/keep getting fanboy comments for each tune. All tunes for the N54 are going to put more wear and tear on engine components because you are asking it to push more power. For example, saying COBB is safer than JB4/Procede is a perfect example of what I am talking about. Run after run, COBB actually increases boost to keep up with the same performance, as opposed to the piggy's.

Rundown:

COBB- Most $$, easiest install, flash tune, ability to use COBB ATR
JB4- Cheapest (Price, not quality by any means), has cool features, E85 support
Procede- Middle price point, more advanced than the JB4 but still a piggy, (I would say) for people interested in fine-tuning and pushing tons of power.
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      08-06-2012, 10:25 PM   #13
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COBB actually increases boost to keep up with the same performance, as opposed to the piggy's.
I'm just over 400 WHP after being tuned for E85, maintain 16-17 psi


SO much for COBB being boost heavy
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      08-06-2012, 10:30 PM   #14
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I'm prob just over 400 WHP after being tuned for E85, maintain 16-17 psi


SO much for COBB being boost heavy
I guess that went right over your head

Last edited by E90Company; 08-06-2012 at 11:12 PM.
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      08-06-2012, 10:32 PM   #15
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I guess that went right over your head. BTW, with just a JB4, DCI, and E85, one should be 400+whp.
IF you hate your turbos sure, and that's also on 50/50 blends. I'm running a 20% mix


I'm not a piggy fan, but I also don't run meth. A flash is a true tune because it goes in-depth & makes real changes, Over 70 Tables Including: Fueling Tables, Ignition Tables, VANOS Timing, Boost Control, WGDC Tables, Load Target, & Turbo Spool Tables.

NO piggy goes that far in-depth with its tuning (CPS Offsetting is about as "advanced" as it gets)

Last edited by benzy89; 08-06-2012 at 10:38 PM.
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      08-06-2012, 10:37 PM   #16
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IF you hate your turbos sure, and that's also on 50/50 blends. I'm running a 20% mix
You just keep going on and on don't you? A JB4 can do just as much as COBB, if not way more. Meth failsafe, out of box E85 support, on the fly map switching, autotuning, gauge hijacking just to name some. Not to mention cheaper! PM me if you want to have a tuner war because this isn't the place to do it.
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      08-06-2012, 10:41 PM   #17
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You just keep going on and on don't you? A JB4 can do just as much as COBB, if not way more. Meth failsafe, out of box E85 support, on the fly map switching, autotuning, gauge hijacking just to name some. Not to mention cheaper!
Meth management is the biggest selling point for any of the piggys. Gauge hijacking is a cool trick, but it doesn't make your car go faster. I can flash for a new map in the same amount of time it takes to fill the tank.

Yea, AutoTune is a nice feature, but if you're serious about performance & buy aftermarket turbos, the piggys can't compare with the COBB tune.
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      08-06-2012, 10:42 PM   #18
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Meth management is the biggest selling point for any of the piggys. Gauge hijacking is a cool trick, but it doesn't make your car go faster. I can flash for a new map in the same amount of time it takes to fill the tank.

Yea, AutoTune is a nice feature, but if you're serious about performance & buy aftermarket turbos, the piggys can't compare with the COBB tune.
PM me if you want to have a tuner war because this isn't the place to do it. Grow up.
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      08-06-2012, 10:48 PM   #19
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PM me if you want to have a tuner war because this isn't the place to do it. Grow up.
I couldn't care less about arguing with you, I'm just correcting your false advertising


OP -- Identify how & what you want to mod. From there actually read for yourself what each tune is capable of & how it goes about increasing performance. From there you'll be able to make an informed decision of what's best for you.


There is a VERY good reason why piggys are popular on the BMW N54/N55 platform & while 98.5% of everyone else goes with a Flash Tune. Look at the E60 M5, the E9x M3, the new F10 M5/F12 M6. Any tunes being done on these cars are ALL flash based, whether it's simple bolt on tuning or heavy-duty upgrades (supercharger kits anyone?)
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      08-06-2012, 10:49 PM   #20
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I own a JB4 and haven't tried anything else. This is how I view it after researching - take this from my previously stated point of view:

1. COBB - If you want high HP (over 450whp without meth) you will need this to hit it so that you can get the better AFR control from flash tune.
2. Procede - Get this if you are going to run the big single kit. Otherwise JB4 is cheaper and has better and more frequent support. More fine tuning options than JB4 but still pretty simple
3. JB4 - Simple, awesome support, E85, maps updated monthly

I run 17.5lbs with 40-60 mixes of E85 and 91 with a JB4 G5 and DCI only (420whp consistently on virtual dyno with no scaling). I think for the investment none of the other tunes will come even close to matching that. That being said if I want to go farther now I need to get a set of RBs and a Cobb anyway to get fueling nailed down.
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      08-06-2012, 10:50 PM   #21
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Nobody's false advertizing. You are protuned, and it dousn't apply to you. There's a reason the single turbo 335 uses a piggy.
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      08-06-2012, 10:50 PM   #22
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Hey benzy post up your ptf tuned street datalogs... You can send to me to graph them.
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