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      05-17-2017, 02:06 PM   #1
uhNexus
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Max Power Potential Without E85 or Meth?

Hey, so I'm FBO and waiting to install RB turbos and MMP inlets and outlets. How much power do you guys think I could make without doing ethanol or meth? I have no access to ethanol in Toronto and meth adds a lot of shit that could go wrong (plus it would be another few hundred dollars extra). I know there's not much I can do with regards to timing without those things but isn't there still some power on the table with a BEF after the turbos and MMP parts are installed?
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      05-17-2017, 02:51 PM   #2
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BEF doesn't really add power.

Stock turbos: with 93 octane you're limited to around 400whp

RB turbos: you'll be around 450-475whp
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      05-17-2017, 03:13 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambe View Post
BEF doesn't really add power.

Stock turbos: with 93 octane you're limited to around 400whp

RB turbos: you'll be around 450-475whp
Awesome! From what I've read around the forums, people made it seem like I'd be lucky to hit 450whp without ethanol. Hopefully I can get near 475 with 19psi
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      05-17-2017, 03:15 PM   #4
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Originally Posted by uhNexus View Post
Awesome! From what I've read around the forums, people made it seem like I'd be lucky to hit 450whp without ethanol. Hopefully I can get near 475 with 19psi
I highly doubt you'll hit 475 unless conditions are absolutely perfect. I would keep 450 in mind.
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      05-17-2017, 03:18 PM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Harambe View Post
I highly doubt you'll hit 475 unless conditions are absolutely perfect. I would keep 450 in mind.
Ya, I was thinking realistically 450, but people have seen great gains with even outlets, so hopefully somewhere between 450 and 475.
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      05-18-2017, 02:29 PM   #6
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I'll 2nd the ~400whp comment. I'm right around there on a custom wedge tune with FBO and 92. I'm just starting to hit the lpfp limits and seeing a little timing correction.
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      05-18-2017, 03:34 PM   #7
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Had that setup but no inlets and made 415hp 415ft Lb pump fuel.

Once I added inlets my clutch was fried on the base e40 map. Never used pump fuel again, this was 2 years ago
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      05-18-2017, 03:38 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brule View Post
Had that setup but no inlets and made 415hp 415ft Lb pump fuel.

Once I added inlets my clutch was fried on the base e40 map. Never used pump fuel again, this was 2 years ago
Was it the standard 335i or the "is" clutch?
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      05-18-2017, 03:49 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brule View Post
Had that setup but no inlets and made 415hp 415ft Lb pump fuel.

Once I added inlets my clutch was fried on the base e40 map. Never used pump fuel again, this was 2 years ago
What PSI were you running with the RBs?
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      05-18-2017, 04:59 PM   #10
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new RBs with inlets have hit 500whp on 93 fwiw.

also, you can run meth VERY safely. It's a great way to keep your pulls consistent with the IAT suppression and the extra added octane is a nice bonus which can let you run more boost.
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      05-19-2017, 10:06 AM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
new RBs with inlets have hit 500whp on 93 fwiw.

also, you can run meth VERY safely. It's a great way to keep your pulls consistent with the IAT suppression and the extra added octane is a nice bonus which can let you run more boost.
I think he's talking about old RBs though
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      06-17-2017, 12:08 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antetokounmpo View Post
I think he's talking about old RBs though
They were old RBs but they've been rebuilt by Vargas to a stage 2 spec and boy do they pull
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      06-17-2017, 12:50 PM   #13
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I'm 420 WHP on stock turbos and inlets with 93 octane (custom BrenTune), with 460 on straight E85 (mostly Ignition Timing/VANOS changes since there isn't any boost left), all through the 6AT.

Solid mid-400s on 93 pump shouldn't be difficult RBs and Upgraded Inlets. For example, Bren hit 465 WHP/483 on this 335Xi on 93 without inlets or meth



Low/mid 500s is probably possible with Unleaded Race Fuel (MS109), which won't require a fueling upgrade. Obviously, the big issue here is that race fuel is gonna hit the wallet a lot harder than meth or E85
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      06-18-2017, 11:10 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
I'm 420 WHP on stock turbos and inlets with 93 octane (custom BrenTune), with 460 on straight E85 (mostly Ignition Timing/VANOS changes since there isn't any boost left), all through the 6AT.

Solid mid-400s on 93 pump shouldn't be difficult RBs and Upgraded Inlets. For example, Bren hit 465 WHP/483 on this 335Xi on 93 without inlets or meth



Low/mid 500s is probably possible with Unleaded Race Fuel (MS109), which won't require a fueling upgrade. Obviously, the big issue here is that race fuel is gonna hit the wallet a lot harder than meth or E85
That's pretty serious power. Do you have a build thread or a mod list ?
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      06-19-2017, 12:31 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
That's pretty serious power. Do you have a build thread or a mod list ?
Think it's listed in the video description, but it's:
  • Custom COBB Tune by BrenTuning (93 and Straight E85)
  • RB Turbos
  • ETS FMIC
  • aFe Sealed Intake
  • AR Design DPs
  • Evolution Racewerks Charge Pipe with Forge DVs
  • 3 Bar MAP Sensor

No mention if it's a 6AT or 6MT
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      06-19-2017, 12:36 AM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
That's pretty serious power. Do you have a build thread or a mod list ?
Think it's listed in the video description, but it's:
  • Custom COBB Tune by BrenTuning (93 and Straight E85)
  • RB Turbos
  • ETS FMIC
  • aFe Sealed Intake
  • AR Design DPs
  • Evolution Racewerks Charge Pipe with Forge DVs
  • 3 Bar MAP Sensor

No mention if it's a 6AT or 6MT
Actually I wanted to know yours
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      06-19-2017, 12:39 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Actually I wanted to know yours
Sure
  • COBB ProTune by BrenTuning (93 and Straight E85 Maps)
  • Helix 5" Stepped FMIC
  • Akrapovic DPs
  • aFe DCIs
  • Walbro 450 LPFP Upgrade
  • Alpina 6AT TCM Flash
  • E90 OEM Catted Mid and Rear Section
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      06-19-2017, 12:41 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mit_Boost View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
Actually I wanted to know yours
Sure
  • COBB ProTune by BrenTuning (93 and Straight E85 Maps)
  • Helix 5" Stepped FMIC
  • Akrapovic DPs
  • aFe DCIs
  • Walbro 450 LPFP Upgrade
  • Alpina 6AT TCM Flash
  • E90 OEM Catted Mid and Rear Section
So essentially you push out over 400whp with nothing more than a cooler, DPs and DCI... Nice
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      06-19-2017, 12:46 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Aus335iguy View Post
So essentially you push out over 400whp with nothing more than a cooler, DPs and DCI... Nice
Yea, Bren really knows what he's doing and takes the time to massage the Ignition and VANOS to maximize the OEM Turbos. I also did this before upgraded inlets were even available, so that probably would've taken me to ~440 WHP on 93, maybe even ~470 on straight E85 (if there was enough fuel)

But I've had this setup for more than 4 years and haven't had any issues
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      06-19-2017, 06:36 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ******** View Post
uhNexus You dont need a JB4+BEF, besides Ill warn you from now, you will start having transmission issues later and you will be limited on torque then the next thing people will be yapping that you need to upgrade your clutches, which is BS.

Go flash only with MHD, get a custom map.
Okay, I appreciate you don't need a JB4, but it does have safety, meth and flex fuel options you can't get with MHD.

But now that the JB4 Backend Flash is generally done using the MHD software, in JB4+BEF mode don't you get all the benefit of a MHD flash, plus the additional boost, meth, PI and failsafe options of the JB4?

I mean, sure, If you're going for cheap, MHD is great, but since you can get a JB4v5 ISO so cheap now second hand and do the JB4 BEF via MHD, isn't that an all round better option to have the JB4 there monitoring on the fly and dropping the boost if anything is amiss rather than loading up an aggressive MHD tune based on your last logs and hope nothing goes wrong?
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      06-19-2017, 09:46 AM   #21
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Originally Posted by xQx View Post
Okay, I appreciate you don't need a JB4, but it does have safety, meth and flex fuel options you can't get with MHD.
I've never been a piggyback or meth fan personal, like BQ mentioned, I have an issue with the "in between" interface that's sending false signals to the DME. Anyhow, MHD should be getting true FlexFuel support in the near future.

If I wasn't running my tried and true setup for this long--I mean, MHD didn't even exist when I got my tune done--I would've strongly considered usingthe MHD tuning module
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      06-19-2017, 10:20 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ******** View Post
The OP has a 335is all the numbers being spouted about with COBB does not apply. You cannot raise the boost ceiling for the 335is, 1M, or Z4 35is or any N54B30TO car on COBB. Your stuck like chuck with 18.5 psi boost target.

The only cars that the boost ceiling can be raised on COBB are those with I8A0S and IJE0S ROMs . However on COBB you also are capped at 22.x PSI

On MHD you can raise the boost target above 22, 24, 26 + PSI on "any" N54 car with the exception of the Alpina cars. Alpina cars need the software overwritten by the dealer or a new DME from what I have heard in order to be supported by MHD

The OP can definitely make more than 500+ whp on Canada gas with RB turbos with upgraded outlet and inlets. Thats easy with the right direction of tuning and tuning application

uhNexus You dont need a JB4+BEF, besides Ill warn you from now, you will start having transmission issues later and you will be limited on torque then the next thing people will be yapping that you need to upgrade your clutches, which is BS.

Go flash only with MHD, get a custom map.

Also you can make over 400+ whp on stock turbos semi FBO cars with 93 octane on COBB or MHD with roughly only 18-19 psi . Its nothing new, it has been done for years with customer tuning.
At what power levels do you see people starting to have transmission issues? With a BEF, I'd be aiming for just under 500whp. I don't plan on going over.
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