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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > True Dual Cold Air Intake



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      02-18-2014, 03:05 PM   #1
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True Dual Cold Air Intake

Right now in R/D I have designed a true dual cold air intake the would fit the n54 engine. The front turbo would runs straight to the passenger side bumper instead of reaching around the front of the engine. The back turbo would reach down into the driver side bumper. Both turbos would now be drawing in cold air while being protected from the elements. I will post pictures and hopefully get some dyno numbers up to see how much of difference this new design could generate. Looking to get some feed back on what members are thinking. If this does indeed workout I would do a production run on this set up.
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      02-18-2014, 03:33 PM   #2
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With this going for the N54, it would be great to see some direct comparison with the Burger Tuning DCI. Those aren't fed by cold air, and they aren't protected, but they work. They're also cheap. But that's what I would like to see personally. HP, Torques, and good looking.
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      02-18-2014, 03:41 PM   #3
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Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm basing this off my experience with other turbocharged cars, so maybe the specifics are different for the N54), but isn't CAI pointless on a turbocharged car? Wouldn't a short ram and high-flow filter yield better results?

Last edited by AdamN52; 02-18-2014 at 03:54 PM.
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      02-18-2014, 03:44 PM   #4
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Where are the filters mounted? Behind the fog lights? If someone is running their oil cooler there, how would this fit? If they're open element filters and there isn't some sort of seal between the engine bay and the filter, I think the difference in temp would be minimal. Once the car is moving, a lot of air is flowing through the engine bay. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference where the filter is then unless it's truly sealed off.
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      02-18-2014, 03:45 PM   #5
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Sounds cool, but would it be user friendly? I feel like the pain of changing filters/cleaning them wouldn't justify the intake system
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      02-18-2014, 05:12 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WiscoGB54115 View Post
Right now in R/D I have designed a true dual cold air intake the would fit the n54 engine. The front turbo would runs straight to the passenger side bumper instead of reaching around the front of the engine. The back turbo would reach down into the driver side bumper. Both turbos would now be drawing in cold air while being protected from the elements. I will post pictures and hopefully get some dyno numbers up to see how much of difference this new design could generate. Looking to get some feed back on what members are thinking. If this does indeed workout I would do a production run on this set up.
Thanks
Sounds horrible to install. I hope you go through with it and all and post some great before and after results(Same day, same dyno). Then measure some IATs at idle, on the highway and compare them to DCIs.

Unfortunately at the end of the day I think the cost + install headache will keep people away.
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      02-18-2014, 05:21 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Sounds horrible to install. I hope you go through with it and all and post some great before and after results(Same day, same dyno). Then measure some IATs at idle, on the highway and compare them to DCIs.

Unfortunately at the end of the day I think the cost + install headache will keep people away.
Sounds like a possible water ingestion hazard also.
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      02-18-2014, 05:27 PM   #8
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This would be good if it was a larger with smoother transitions. The stock pre turbo inlets are garbage. You would definitely squeeze a few more drops from the lemon especially you RB guys.
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      02-18-2014, 05:51 PM   #9
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I'd be interested to find out whether it's "better" (in terms of design &/or HP gain) and/or cheaper than Dinan's.

Dinan's costs $1299 (plus tax, shipping & labor, if applicable) and here's what they claim it does alone or in combo w/their different software programs:

"Stage 2 software, Free Flow Exhaust produces 12 Hp and 13 ft-lb torque
Stage 1 software, Free Flow Exhaust produces 9 Hp and 10 ft-lb torque
Completely Stock car produces 5 Hp and 6 ft-lb torque"

See: http://dinancars.com/product/d760-00...ries&mid=1013/

Frankly, although Dinan's CAI "looks" beautiful, those are marginal gains which do not justify the cost. I wouldn't expect much better from the OP's CAI but it might be worth buying, if it can be produced at a significantly lower cost.
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      02-18-2014, 07:32 PM   #10
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Have you seen the Mr5 intake:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=mr5+intake

I'm in process of making one of these.......seems simpler than your idea maybe for probably the same gains.....maybe not though.....i'd be interested to see what you come up with.
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      02-19-2014, 12:32 AM   #11
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This will def have better gains but as another member said install would need to be fine from the bottom and prob with down pipes out for the front turbo. This would be good for upgraded turbos but it's really just not practical or worth it unless it's a track car
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      02-19-2014, 01:20 AM   #12
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I would love to see a new inlet tube design. More spool noises!!
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      02-19-2014, 01:45 AM   #13
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitino25
Have you seen the Mr5 intake:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=mr5+intake

I'm in process of making one of these.......seems simpler than your idea maybe for probably the same gains.....maybe not though.....i'd be interested to see what you come up with.
If you are looking to keep your stock air box untouched, I have a stock air box with the Mr. 5 side inlet installed and some different length pipe tubes that I bought off a forum member a while back and never installed. It has a K&N panel drop in. All you need is a cone filter and you're set. I am basically too lazy to go through the install and resized that you have to move some kind of reservoir on the e93 so I scraped the project.
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      02-19-2014, 07:41 AM   #14
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Maybe stupid but I was thinking of going exactly the opposite way, 2 small K&N one directly on each turbo, eliminate entirely the present convoluted intake tract. So many folks with big turbos have NO intake tract at all, just a tiny K&N stuck right on the turbo itself and they make huge power.

You deal with intake temps on a turbo with FMIC and maybe meth, not so much a CAI. You could easily redirect some cooler air back down there from the front, even exiting under the car.
Also would need to vent diverters to atmosphere, but that is easy just slap on couple of tiny K&N's right onto the diverter exit.

Last edited by ajsalida; 02-19-2014 at 07:46 AM.
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      02-19-2014, 09:55 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Maybe stupid but I was thinking of going exactly the opposite way, 2 small K&N one directly on each turbo, eliminate entirely the present convoluted intake tract. So many folks with big turbos have NO intake tract at all, just a tiny K&N stuck right on the turbo itself and they make huge power.

You deal with intake temps on a turbo with FMIC and maybe meth, not so much a CAI. You could easily redirect some cooler air back down there from the front, even exiting under the car.
Also would need to vent diverters to atmosphere, but that is easy just slap on couple of tiny K&N's right onto the diverter exit.
What?
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      02-19-2014, 10:27 AM   #16
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      02-19-2014, 10:53 AM   #17
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Plenty of people put filters directly onto the intake side of turbo on the hot side of the engine, top or bottom mount. Just suggesting that might be interesting to try even with stock frame turbos, with 2 smaller filters. Would eliminate a lot of restrictive intake plumbing

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      02-19-2014, 10:59 AM   #18
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Yeah, but typically people don't do it when the filter element would be 1" from the exhaust manifold. I get the idea, on a previous car I turbo'd, I put a filter right on the turbo. No pipe, nothing, just 4" inlet filter clamped directly to turbo. But I had room and it was a top mount turbo. I don't see how it could be a good idea to put a filter that close to the manifold. On another car I turbo'd, we initially had the filter right next to the manifold. But when things got hot, car lost power. Air was so hot even with intercooler that the car was pulling timing. We added a pipe to move the filter from next to the manifold and everything was fine.

I'm curious, how would you even get a filter on the rear turbo?
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      02-19-2014, 11:00 AM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Plenty of people put filters directly onto the turbo on the hot side of the engine, top or bottom mount
The intake filter has a small effect on turbo flow. Comparing single turbo cars HP results with no intake to a stock turbo car no intake is a stretch. I was more laughing at you filtering the DV valve atmospheric vent as there would be no place to vent back to. Again I would be worried about water ingestion with your plan especially if you cut a hole in the belly pan to allow airflow.
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      02-19-2014, 11:04 AM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator View Post
The intake filter has a small effect on turbo flow. Comparing single turbo cars HP results with no intake to a stock turbo car no intake is a stretch. I was more laughing at you filtering the DV valve atmospheric vent as there would be no place to vent back to. Again I would be worried about water ingestion with your plan especially if you cut a hole in the belly pan to allow airflow.
Current DV's blow off back into intake tracts pre turbo unless I am mistaken. At least that's how it looked when I put my Forge DV's in.

Belly pan was to exit hot air near exhaust, not ingest cold air. I was only curious to see if removing all that intake plumbing would help air flow at all, not so concerned about temps as I agree with others, CAI on this set up is not much benefit.
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      02-19-2014, 11:07 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Current DV's blow off back into intake tracts pre turbo unless I am mistaken. At least that's how it looked when I put my Forge DV's in.

Belly pan was to exit hot air near exhaust, not ingest cold air. I was only curious to see if removing all that intake plumbing would help air flow at all, not so concerned about temps as I agree with others, CAI on this set up is not much benefit.
Yes stock diverter valves go to the turbo inlet piping. However with no inlet piping you have to go atmospheric so why would you filter it.
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      02-19-2014, 11:11 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator View Post
Yes stock diverter valves go to the turbo inlet piping. However with no inlet piping you have to go atmospheric so why would you filter it.
You typically see small filters on things like PCV and other openings/vents into the engine. Would not want bugs or mice crawling into your DV's. It's not to filter the air going out it's to prevent garbage getting in.
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