E90Post
 


Evolve Automotive
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > True Dual Cold Air Intake



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      02-18-2014, 02:05 PM   #1
WiscoGB54115
Enlisted Member
 
Drives: BMW 335i Xdrive
Join Date: Jul 2013
Location: Green Bay WI

Posts: 34
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
True Dual Cold Air Intake

Right now in R/D I have designed a true dual cold air intake the would fit the n54 engine. The front turbo would runs straight to the passenger side bumper instead of reaching around the front of the engine. The back turbo would reach down into the driver side bumper. Both turbos would now be drawing in cold air while being protected from the elements. I will post pictures and hopefully get some dyno numbers up to see how much of difference this new design could generate. Looking to get some feed back on what members are thinking. If this does indeed workout I would do a production run on this set up.
Thanks
WiscoGB54115 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 02:33 PM   #2
Bear From Jax
Typical 335i Owner
 
Bear From Jax's Avatar
 
Drives: AW/BL E92 335i 6MT
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Jacksonville, Fl

Posts: 713
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW 335i  [5.00]
With this going for the N54, it would be great to see some direct comparison with the Burger Tuning DCI. Those aren't fed by cold air, and they aren't protected, but they work. They're also cheap. But that's what I would like to see personally. HP, Torques, and good looking.
__________________

E92 335i | AW/BL | JB4 G5 ISO | DCI | SLD | Muffler Delete | Bilstein B12 and MOAR to come
If speed is death, then buy a Honda and live forever
Bear From Jax is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 02:41 PM   #3
AdamN52
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2007 328xi (E90)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Toronto

Posts: 142
iTrader: (0)

Correct me if I'm wrong (I'm basing this off my experience with other turbocharged cars, so maybe the specifics are different for the N54), but isn't CAI pointless on a turbocharged car? Wouldn't a short ram and high-flow filter yield better results?

Last edited by AdamN52; 02-18-2014 at 02:54 PM.
AdamN52 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 02:44 PM   #4
shadow191
Captain
 
Drives: '07 E92 335i / '07 Infiniti FX
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: GA

Posts: 907
iTrader: (3)

Where are the filters mounted? Behind the fog lights? If someone is running their oil cooler there, how would this fit? If they're open element filters and there isn't some sort of seal between the engine bay and the filter, I think the difference in temp would be minimal. Once the car is moving, a lot of air is flowing through the engine bay. Doesn't make a whole lot of difference where the filter is then unless it's truly sealed off.
shadow191 is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 02:45 PM   #5
SM335i
Captain
 
Drives: 335xdrive
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Mass

Posts: 631
iTrader: (0)

Sounds cool, but would it be user friendly? I feel like the pain of changing filters/cleaning them wouldn't justify the intake system
SM335i is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 04:12 PM   #6
Torgus
Slow.
 
Torgus's Avatar
 
Drives: E90 & E92 with 487 ftlbs of tq
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Boston, MA

Posts: 905
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2007 BMW E92  [5.00]
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiscoGB54115 View Post
Right now in R/D I have designed a true dual cold air intake the would fit the n54 engine. The front turbo would runs straight to the passenger side bumper instead of reaching around the front of the engine. The back turbo would reach down into the driver side bumper. Both turbos would now be drawing in cold air while being protected from the elements. I will post pictures and hopefully get some dyno numbers up to see how much of difference this new design could generate. Looking to get some feed back on what members are thinking. If this does indeed workout I would do a production run on this set up.
Thanks
Sounds horrible to install. I hope you go through with it and all and post some great before and after results(Same day, same dyno). Then measure some IATs at idle, on the highway and compare them to DCIs.

Unfortunately at the end of the day I think the cost + install headache will keep people away.
__________________
E92 Bren Tune
E90 PTF Tune
Torgus is online now   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 04:21 PM   #7
Ingeniator
Captain
 
Ingeniator's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335XI(90) 09 135I(82)
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Fort Mac, Alberta

Posts: 990
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Torgus View Post
Sounds horrible to install. I hope you go through with it and all and post some great before and after results(Same day, same dyno). Then measure some IATs at idle, on the highway and compare them to DCIs.

Unfortunately at the end of the day I think the cost + install headache will keep people away.
Sounds like a possible water ingestion hazard also.
__________________
07 335XI (A008006) 6AT ~94K miles JB4 G5 ISO VSRF DP's
09 135I M (VK80379) 6MT. Race Project car.
2) Install Cobb/piggyback? and JRZ suspension. 3) Build parrallel HPFP and highflow intake manifold with multi-port fuel and meth. 4) Build full cage and staged twin setup with turbochargers. HTA3076R (tial.82 or Garret divided 1.01)/ HTA4205R (tial 1.16)
Ingeniator is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 04:27 PM   #8
3000GT MR
Captain
 
3000GT MR's Avatar
 
Drives: 09 335i/3000gt vr4
Join Date: Jun 2012
Location: Sav GA

Posts: 967
iTrader: (1)

This would be good if it was a larger with smoother transitions. The stock pre turbo inlets are garbage. You would definitely squeeze a few more drops from the lemon especially you RB guys.
__________________
335i 2010 e92 M-sport Mods: In the works. Having a little Deja Vu
335i 2009 e90 665RWHP Mod's: Vishnu/FFtec 6466 single turbo, VRSF exhaust, spec 3+ RIP .
3000GT VR4 1994 647AWHP Mod's: Fully built/forged block, twin TD-05's, Meth, and a whole lot of support.
3000GT MR is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 04:51 PM   #9
SSW
I Can't Drive 55
 
SSW's Avatar
 
Drives: 2008 BMW 335i (E90)
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: SF Bay Area

Posts: 590
iTrader: (3)

Garage List
I'd be interested to find out whether it's "better" (in terms of design &/or HP gain) and/or cheaper than Dinan's.

Dinan's costs $1299 (plus tax, shipping & labor, if applicable) and here's what they claim it does alone or in combo w/their different software programs:

"Stage 2 software, Free Flow Exhaust produces 12 Hp and 13 ft-lb torque
Stage 1 software, Free Flow Exhaust produces 9 Hp and 10 ft-lb torque
Completely Stock car produces 5 Hp and 6 ft-lb torque"

See: http://dinancars.com/product/d760-00...ries&mid=1013/

Frankly, although Dinan's CAI "looks" beautiful, those are marginal gains which do not justify the cost. I wouldn't expect much better from the OP's CAI but it might be worth buying, if it can be produced at a significantly lower cost.
__________________
2008 Black Sapphire 335i E90 Sport & Premium Pkgs - Cobb Stage 1+FMIC Sport map, Mishimoto FMIC & Alpina B3 AT Flash. See: My Build Thread.
SSW is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 06:32 PM   #10
nikitino25
Lieutenant
 
nikitino25's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E92 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Missouri

Posts: 526
iTrader: (1)

Have you seen the Mr5 intake:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=mr5+intake

I'm in process of making one of these.......seems simpler than your idea maybe for probably the same gains.....maybe not though.....i'd be interested to see what you come up with.
nikitino25 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-18-2014, 11:32 PM   #11
RaceTruk
Captain
 
Drives: X5 35xdrive
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: New York

Posts: 631
iTrader: (1)

This will def have better gains but as another member said install would need to be fine from the bottom and prob with down pipes out for the front turbo. This would be good for upgraded turbos but it's really just not practical or worth it unless it's a track car
RaceTruk is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 12:20 AM   #12
glachhman
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: '07 335i e90
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: Queens, NY

Posts: 397
iTrader: (0)

I would love to see a new inlet tube design. More spool noises!!
__________________
glachhman is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 12:45 AM   #13
BlueBimmer
Enthusiast
 
BlueBimmer's Avatar
 
Drives: 2009 335i Convertible
Join Date: Apr 2012
Location: PA

Posts: 272
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by nikitino25
Have you seen the Mr5 intake:

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...ght=mr5+intake

I'm in process of making one of these.......seems simpler than your idea maybe for probably the same gains.....maybe not though.....i'd be interested to see what you come up with.
If you are looking to keep your stock air box untouched, I have a stock air box with the Mr. 5 side inlet installed and some different length pipe tubes that I bought off a forum member a while back and never installed. It has a K&N panel drop in. All you need is a cone filter and you're set. I am basically too lazy to go through the install and resized that you have to move some kind of reservoir on the e93 so I scraped the project.
BlueBimmer is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 06:41 AM   #14
ajsalida
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ajsalida's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 M3, 02 R1150GSA, 09 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW USA

Posts: 1,614
iTrader: (2)

Maybe stupid but I was thinking of going exactly the opposite way, 2 small K&N one directly on each turbo, eliminate entirely the present convoluted intake tract. So many folks with big turbos have NO intake tract at all, just a tiny K&N stuck right on the turbo itself and they make huge power.

You deal with intake temps on a turbo with FMIC and maybe meth, not so much a CAI. You could easily redirect some cooler air back down there from the front, even exiting under the car.
Also would need to vent diverters to atmosphere, but that is easy just slap on couple of tiny K&N's right onto the diverter exit.

Last edited by ajsalida; 02-19-2014 at 06:46 AM.
ajsalida is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 08:55 AM   #15
Ingeniator
Captain
 
Ingeniator's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335XI(90) 09 135I(82)
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Fort Mac, Alberta

Posts: 990
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Maybe stupid but I was thinking of going exactly the opposite way, 2 small K&N one directly on each turbo, eliminate entirely the present convoluted intake tract. So many folks with big turbos have NO intake tract at all, just a tiny K&N stuck right on the turbo itself and they make huge power.

You deal with intake temps on a turbo with FMIC and maybe meth, not so much a CAI. You could easily redirect some cooler air back down there from the front, even exiting under the car.
Also would need to vent diverters to atmosphere, but that is easy just slap on couple of tiny K&N's right onto the diverter exit.
What?
__________________
07 335XI (A008006) 6AT ~94K miles JB4 G5 ISO VSRF DP's
09 135I M (VK80379) 6MT. Race Project car.
2) Install Cobb/piggyback? and JRZ suspension. 3) Build parrallel HPFP and highflow intake manifold with multi-port fuel and meth. 4) Build full cage and staged twin setup with turbochargers. HTA3076R (tial.82 or Garret divided 1.01)/ HTA4205R (tial 1.16)
Ingeniator is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 09:27 AM   #16
FCobra94
Major
 
FCobra94's Avatar
 
Drives: '07 E90 335i
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: MD

Posts: 1,271
iTrader: (0)

lol
__________________
'07 E90 335i - Automagic - Non-sport
Cobb AP|Alpina Flash|VRSF 7" FMIC|VRSF CP|TIAL BOV|cp-e DCI|Bilstein B6|E93 M3 FSB|SP Lowering Perches
Summer: Sonic Tuning ST100 - 18x8.5 ET35 - Conti DWS 245/40/18 - 10mm rear spacers
Winter: Style 159 - 17x8 ET34 - Michelin X-Ice Xi2 225/50/17 - 15mm rear spacers
FCobra94 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 09:53 AM   #17
ajsalida
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ajsalida's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 M3, 02 R1150GSA, 09 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW USA

Posts: 1,614
iTrader: (2)

Plenty of people put filters directly onto the intake side of turbo on the hot side of the engine, top or bottom mount. Just suggesting that might be interesting to try even with stock frame turbos, with 2 smaller filters. Would eliminate a lot of restrictive intake plumbing

ajsalida is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 09:59 AM   #18
shadow191
Captain
 
Drives: '07 E92 335i / '07 Infiniti FX
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: GA

Posts: 907
iTrader: (3)

Yeah, but typically people don't do it when the filter element would be 1" from the exhaust manifold. I get the idea, on a previous car I turbo'd, I put a filter right on the turbo. No pipe, nothing, just 4" inlet filter clamped directly to turbo. But I had room and it was a top mount turbo. I don't see how it could be a good idea to put a filter that close to the manifold. On another car I turbo'd, we initially had the filter right next to the manifold. But when things got hot, car lost power. Air was so hot even with intercooler that the car was pulling timing. We added a pipe to move the filter from next to the manifold and everything was fine.

I'm curious, how would you even get a filter on the rear turbo?
shadow191 is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 10:00 AM   #19
Ingeniator
Captain
 
Ingeniator's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335XI(90) 09 135I(82)
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Fort Mac, Alberta

Posts: 990
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Plenty of people put filters directly onto the turbo on the hot side of the engine, top or bottom mount
The intake filter has a small effect on turbo flow. Comparing single turbo cars HP results with no intake to a stock turbo car no intake is a stretch. I was more laughing at you filtering the DV valve atmospheric vent as there would be no place to vent back to. Again I would be worried about water ingestion with your plan especially if you cut a hole in the belly pan to allow airflow.
__________________
07 335XI (A008006) 6AT ~94K miles JB4 G5 ISO VSRF DP's
09 135I M (VK80379) 6MT. Race Project car.
2) Install Cobb/piggyback? and JRZ suspension. 3) Build parrallel HPFP and highflow intake manifold with multi-port fuel and meth. 4) Build full cage and staged twin setup with turbochargers. HTA3076R (tial.82 or Garret divided 1.01)/ HTA4205R (tial 1.16)
Ingeniator is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 10:04 AM   #20
ajsalida
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ajsalida's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 M3, 02 R1150GSA, 09 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW USA

Posts: 1,614
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator View Post
The intake filter has a small effect on turbo flow. Comparing single turbo cars HP results with no intake to a stock turbo car no intake is a stretch. I was more laughing at you filtering the DV valve atmospheric vent as there would be no place to vent back to. Again I would be worried about water ingestion with your plan especially if you cut a hole in the belly pan to allow airflow.
Current DV's blow off back into intake tracts pre turbo unless I am mistaken. At least that's how it looked when I put my Forge DV's in.

Belly pan was to exit hot air near exhaust, not ingest cold air. I was only curious to see if removing all that intake plumbing would help air flow at all, not so concerned about temps as I agree with others, CAI on this set up is not much benefit.
ajsalida is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 10:07 AM   #21
Ingeniator
Captain
 
Ingeniator's Avatar
 
Drives: 07 335XI(90) 09 135I(82)
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Fort Mac, Alberta

Posts: 990
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Current DV's blow off back into intake tracts pre turbo unless I am mistaken. At least that's how it looked when I put my Forge DV's in.

Belly pan was to exit hot air near exhaust, not ingest cold air. I was only curious to see if removing all that intake plumbing would help air flow at all, not so concerned about temps as I agree with others, CAI on this set up is not much benefit.
Yes stock diverter valves go to the turbo inlet piping. However with no inlet piping you have to go atmospheric so why would you filter it.
__________________
07 335XI (A008006) 6AT ~94K miles JB4 G5 ISO VSRF DP's
09 135I M (VK80379) 6MT. Race Project car.
2) Install Cobb/piggyback? and JRZ suspension. 3) Build parrallel HPFP and highflow intake manifold with multi-port fuel and meth. 4) Build full cage and staged twin setup with turbochargers. HTA3076R (tial.82 or Garret divided 1.01)/ HTA4205R (tial 1.16)
Ingeniator is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      02-19-2014, 10:11 AM   #22
ajsalida
Lieutenant Colonel
 
ajsalida's Avatar
 
Drives: 95 M3, 02 R1150GSA, 09 335xi
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: SW USA

Posts: 1,614
iTrader: (2)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ingeniator View Post
Yes stock diverter valves go to the turbo inlet piping. However with no inlet piping you have to go atmospheric so why would you filter it.
You typically see small filters on things like PCV and other openings/vents into the engine. Would not want bugs or mice crawling into your DV's. It's not to filter the air going out it's to prevent garbage getting in.
ajsalida is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
335, dual, intake, n54, turbo

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 03:27 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST