E90Post
 


TNT Racewerks
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 328xi wagon in the snow



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      12-10-2012, 10:42 AM   #1
f0xfire021
Private
 
Drives: '09 e91 328xiT | 6mt
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Minnesota

Posts: 63
iTrader: (0)

328xi wagon in the snow

Had a chance to take our 3er wagon out into about a foot of snow yesterday for the first time since buying it last spring. Was expecting that x-drive would be helpful, but was amazed at how well it works. I just put on a new set of Bridgestone Potenza Pole Position 960s a few weeks ago, and they performed admirably as well.

No issues accelerating, even on areas of snow-covered ice - just point and go. As a test I goosed it on an empty, unplowed street with traction control fully enabled. The car simply accelerates as though on dry ground. I then fully disabled traction control, and did the same thing, flooring it in second. All four wheels immediately broke traction and spun up to nearly redline. The difference between the two scenarios under the same conditions was remarkable.

I had to park on an unplowed street in about a foot of untouched snow, and was able to pull out of my spot without too much drama. The biggest hinderance becomes clearance, not traction.

To those considering x-drive, and those considering the Pole Positions, I'd highly recommend both. Dedicated winters would be better, but in a foot of heavy, wet, icy snow, these worked very well.
f0xfire021 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 10:46 AM   #2
Jonny954
Lieutenant
 
Jonny954's Avatar
 
Drives: E82 135i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Fort Lauderdale, FL

Posts: 446
iTrader: (1)

Very interesting...thanks for sharing!
Jonny954 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 11:44 AM   #3
boman993
Private
 
boman993's Avatar
 
Drives: 993 C4S, E91 328ix, E36 323ic
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Toronto, Canada

Posts: 72
iTrader: (0)

Nice! Thanks for sharing!! This is a great review, I'm looking forward to get
into some snow with my wagon! Now if Southern Ontario, can finally get some
proper snow so I can get out snowboarding and thoroughly enjoy the ride
there...wishful thinking..haha
boman993 is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 11:54 AM   #4
Kolyan2k
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 S2000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston

Posts: 3,921
iTrader: (1)

All these posts are not that useful because each person has its own experience and opinion.

I drove my S2000 with summer tires in snow few weeks ago and it was nothing scary because LSD and electronics were doing an amazing job, car was accelerating and stopping. Of course I was just experimenting and would never drive like this in public.

When I use snow tires, for me the point is to drive the car almost the same way as I drive it in summer with summer tires, with or above the speed limit and confident. So that I can go skiing and drive 50-60 mph in snow blizzard.

Driving 20 mph, I am sure it makes no difference what you have until you run in to emergency stop or try to avoid an object. My buddy has RWD car (1995 SC300) and drives on AS tires in snow, his argument is that there is no point in getting snow tires because everyone drives so slow when its snowing. Surprisingly he never gets stuck or has ever been in accident.

Last edited by Kolyan2k; 12-10-2012 at 12:17 PM.
Kolyan2k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 12:23 PM   #5
f0xfire021
Private
 
Drives: '09 e91 328xiT | 6mt
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Minnesota

Posts: 63
iTrader: (0)

I should note that on the highway that same day, I was able to safely drive the speed limit.

I hear you on the variability of these sorts of reviews. Mostly I wanted to note how effective x-drive is (been done before, I know), and that the Potenzas are do-able in the snow, even driving "normally". I won't deny that a proper winter tire will provide a greater degree of handling / stopping ability in the snow, but this was better than I was expecting, and provided plenty of confidence given the conditions.
f0xfire021 is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 01:25 PM   #6
alexwhittemore
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 Crimson 328i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 1,654
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
My buddy has RWD car (1995 SC300) and drives on AS tires in snow, his argument is that there is no point in getting snow tires because everyone drives so slow when its snowing. Surprisingly he never gets stuck or has ever been in accident.
Totally agree with your post and also your buddy's point, though a little less. All in all, your own experience and comfort on snow goes way farther than your equipment in keeping you safe. As it is, most people consume the added safety margin of things like ABS, traction control, and snow tires anyway and drive at the same level they would in nicer weather.

Now, summers in snow may be a bit silly, but I grew up driving a light FWD wagon without so much as antilock breaks in Maine winter. Yeah, I'd rather have traction control, ABS, and AWD, but it's perfectly manageable if you're smart about it.
alexwhittemore is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 01:40 PM   #7
upstatedoc
Drone Expert
 
upstatedoc's Avatar
 
Drives: '09 BMW 328ix
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: NY

Posts: 1,503
iTrader: (1)

__________________
2014 Dodge Durango R/T //Diablosports Tuning
2009 E90 N51 /Active Autowerke Stage 2 tune/BMW Performance Exhaust/
1993 Honda Nighthawk 750
Countermeasure enthusiast.
upstatedoc is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 02:03 PM   #8
m_thompson
Major
 
m_thompson's Avatar
 
Drives: M-Sport 128i, 328xi, 3.0CS
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: New England, USA

Posts: 1,134
iTrader: (0)

Garage List
2009 128i  [0.00]
1972 3.0CS  [5.00]
Don't forget to try the Hill Descent Control feature.
__________________
'09 128i - Black Sapphire Metallic\Coral Red\Glacier Silver\N51 DISA\6MT\Navigation\Premium\M-Sport\Heated seats\Xenon Headlights\iPod\Smartphone\Euro Delivery

m_thompson is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 02:18 PM   #9
Pedalopède
New Member
 
Pedalopède's Avatar
 
Drives: Black 328i xi 2011
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Québec

Posts: 5
iTrader: (0)

Winter tires

Here in Quebec it is mandatory to wear snowshoes (winter tires) from december 15th...or get a "salty" fine!!! No 4 seasons crap allowed. I saw peoples skidding trying to climb a hill on a snowstorm, X-drive allowed me to stop in the middle and start without any problem!!!
Pedalopède is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 04:03 PM   #10
VMRWheels
BimmerPost Supporting Vendor

 
VMRWheels's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Anaheim, CA

Posts: 13,513
iTrader: (4)

Garage List
2014 BMW F22  [0.00]
2013 BMW F06  [0.00]
2013 BMW F30  [0.00]
Nice, thanks for sharing! BMW's Xdrive not bad as people are saying on the forum.
__________________

VMR | Wheels - Mitch A. | p. 714-442-7916 extension 107 | e. Mitch@velocitymotoring.com | ** VMR Winter Wheel/Tire Sale! **
VMRWheels is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 04:39 PM   #11
Kolyan2k
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 S2000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston

Posts: 3,921
iTrader: (1)

Lol, I personally never said Xdrive is bad.....and i am sure its very good. I just think dedicated mechanical AWD platform is better.
Kolyan2k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 04:47 PM   #12
alexwhittemore
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 Crimson 328i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 1,654
iTrader: (0)

What exactly is a 'dedicated mechanical platform' in your book?
alexwhittemore is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 05:52 PM   #13
Kolyan2k
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 S2000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston

Posts: 3,921
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexwhittemore View Post
What exactly is a 'dedicated mechanical platform' in your book?
Its not in my book, it how cars are made. Some cars start with FWD and become AWD, X-Drive is RWD which with addition of some components became AWD, other cars are designed as AWD from ground up.

Its obviously more expensive to design AWD car from ground up, so car manufactures "convert" FWD/RWD to AWD with relatively cheap Haldex or Haldex-like systems. VW, Volvo, BMW use pretty much the same system, whereas Audi, Subaru, and Mitsu use something different.

edit: now torque vectoring and electronically controlled center diffs. is something different and is more advanced. Currently Audi, Mitsu, Subby, and Acura use those.

Last edited by Kolyan2k; 12-10-2012 at 06:20 PM.
Kolyan2k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 07:21 PM   #14
hockeyfox
New Member
 
Drives: 2010 3 Series Wagon
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Minnesota

Posts: 27
iTrader: (0)

I too am in Minnesota where we had over a foot. My 328xi wagon has Conti DWS and it handled the roads beautifully. I was actually laughing watching an SUV spin its wheels at a stop light while I just drove away. The combo of 4 wheel drive and the Conti DWS were great.
hockeyfox is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 08:35 PM   #15
Dark_Knight_335
Came to the N55 Darkside
 
Dark_Knight_335's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 335 E93 M-Sport
Join Date: May 2010
Location: NY/NJ

Posts: 10,149
iTrader: (26)

Never will I ever buy another X-Drive car- I hated the feel of it.
I love my RWD, and have Michelin Pilot Alpin PA4 18"s for the white stuff- bet I'll do just as well.
Dark_Knight_335 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 08:55 PM   #16
alexwhittemore
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 Crimson 328i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 1,654
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
Its not in my book, it how cars are made. Some cars start with FWD and become AWD, X-Drive is RWD which with addition of some components became AWD, other cars are designed as AWD from ground up.

Its obviously more expensive to design AWD car from ground up, so car manufactures "convert" FWD/RWD to AWD with relatively cheap Haldex or Haldex-like systems. VW, Volvo, BMW use pretty much the same system, whereas Audi, Subaru, and Mitsu use something different.

edit: now torque vectoring and electronically controlled center diffs. is something different and is more advanced. Currently Audi, Mitsu, Subby, and Acura use those.
My point being that saying "dedicated mechanical platform" is kind of disingenuous - it's not as if one is mechanical and the other is purely electronic, like the Focus ST having brake actuation rather than a limited slip diff.

Which, to be fair, xdrive does do, but only for the sake of individual wheel control. Which is completely fair, having an additional clutch for each wheel would be pretty silly.

It's still not really clear what you're suggesting is a more advantageous system, simply saying "designed with AWD in mind from the get-go vs a tacked-on afterthought" isn't really descriptive enough. And I'd argue that xDrive or another haldex-like drivetrain isn't any more of an afterthought than any other AWD system vs 4WD system.

Maybe that's what you mean, that you think a 4WD system (with a proper transfer case and two LSDs, a la Jeep Wrangler) is more ideal - in some situations for sure, but I'd happily make the argument that it makes no sense in a BMW, or really any car that you don't plan to do rock and hill climbs in. xdrive accomplishes all the engineering goals BMW set out for with few compromises, where a true 4WD system ticks off very few of them.

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to argue with you one way or the other (yet, maybe we can start a new thread ), I'm just not really clear on exactly what your point is.
alexwhittemore is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 10:18 PM   #17
Kolyan2k
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 S2000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston

Posts: 3,921
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by alexwhittemore View Post
Maybe that's what you mean, that you think a 4WD system (with a proper transfer case and two LSDs, a la Jeep Wrangler) is more ideal - in some situations for sure, but I'd happily make the argument that it makes no sense in a BMW, or really any car that you don't plan to do rock and hill climbs in. xdrive accomplishes all the engineering goals BMW set out for with few compromises, where a true 4WD system ticks off very few of them.
Audi and Subaru as well as Mitsubishi use proper transfer case and 2 LSDs for STI, 1 LSD for S4, and Evo uses 1 or 2 LSD as well (note that those are not Jeep Wrangles, those are high performance cars)

Xdrive doesnt have any of that because of the cost and ONLY the cost. It was made for people to drive more easily through snow and it does it well....nothing more (just like Volvo or VW). Both Xdrive and Haldex use electronic clutch packs and open front and rear diffs, thats why I said they are similar and electronic.

Last edited by Kolyan2k; 12-10-2012 at 10:26 PM.
Kolyan2k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 11:18 PM   #18
Digtlartst
Second Lieutenant
 
Digtlartst's Avatar
 
Drives: 2011 E90x 6MT Alpinweiss
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Inside The Beltway

Posts: 280
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by f0xfire021 View Post
The biggest hinderance becomes clearance, not traction.
My 6MT xi is a blast to drive in the (not too deep) snow. The only trick is staying away from everybody else on the road whose cars can't be fully controlled.

Almost as fun is feeling the tires bite when powering up wet uphill curves.

LSDs or no, x-drive and three pedals works for me.
Digtlartst is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      12-10-2012, 11:50 PM   #19
BmerMeUp
Lieutenant
 
BmerMeUp's Avatar
 
Drives: Cinderella: 2008 E91 328xi
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Ontario

Posts: 420
iTrader: (0)

Torque converting Halon plasma relay distribution cluster vectoring... blablabla

All I know, is I can't wait to try out some deep snow in my xi! So far, I have tested her from a standing start on several gravel-to-asphalt road segments, including 2 and 4-wheel transitions, from gently to absolutely stupid (ok... it's true... I mostly skipped the "gently" part altogether...) and I would SWEAR she didn't even upset a single pebble on the gravel. No skid, No pull, No corkscrew... nuthin. It was like being fired out of a slingshot onto a smooth, hot track.

Absolutely great fun, whatever the hell they wanna call it under that pedal.
BmerMeUp is offline   Canada
0
Reply With Quote
      12-11-2012, 12:46 AM   #20
avocet
Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2007 328i
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Vancouver bc

Posts: 513
iTrader: (0)

you must have some good LSD. my car with summers won't get out of my driveway. and it is flat.



with snows my car is extremely capable.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Kolyan2k View Post
All these posts are not that useful because each person has its own experience and opinion.

I drove my S2000 with summer tires in snow few weeks ago and it was nothing scary because LSD and electronics were doing an amazing job, car was accelerating and stopping. Of course I was just experimenting and would never drive like this in public.

When I use snow tires, for me the point is to drive the car almost the same way as I drive it in summer with summer tires, with or above the speed limit and confident. So that I can go skiing and drive 50-60 mph in snow blizzard.

Driving 20 mph, I am sure it makes no difference what you have until you run in to emergency stop or try to avoid an object. My buddy has RWD car (1995 SC300) and drives on AS tires in snow, his argument is that there is no point in getting snow tires because everyone drives so slow when its snowing. Surprisingly he never gets stuck or has ever been in accident.
avocet is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-11-2012, 02:34 AM   #21
alexwhittemore
Lieutenant Colonel
 
Drives: 2009 Crimson 328i
Join Date: Oct 2012
Location: Los Angeles

Posts: 1,654
iTrader: (0)

Brushing up on the Quattro wikipedia page (which, fwiw, a lot of is in dispute), it looks like Quattro actually includes Torsen center diffs on some cars and Haldex on cars with a transverse engine mounting. Similarly, some have limited slip diffs and some use electronic locking like xdrive. Anyway, point is picking sides isn't especially easy, although I now at least see what you mean in terms of what you consider superior vs xdrive. I'd still make the argument that the difference is pretty difficult to discern in most rational situations and to most drivers, and that from an engineering perspective balancing cost vs objectives for the particular target market, that xdrive represents a pretty solid set of choices.
alexwhittemore is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      12-11-2012, 08:17 AM   #22
Kolyan2k
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 S2000
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Boston

Posts: 3,921
iTrader: (1)

Quote:
Originally Posted by avocet View Post
you must have some good LSD. my car with summers won't get out of my driveway. and it is flat.



with snows my car is extremely capable.

Different temps, different tires, only about 1/2 inch of snow, and the fact that car has LSD and 328 doesn't. I was actually able to even climb a small short hill on the driveway too. (Well not that small, 5 month later I am still recovering from a twisted ankle that I got there)

I can sure tell a difference between my 335i and S2k, so much more traction at rear wheels

Now I can only speculate, but imaging having Xdrive with no center diff, and 2 open f/r diffs vs active center and 2 f/r LSDs. By specs, the difference should be dramatic. I wish some magazine would run a test in equal environment with same snow tires with many different AWD systems. But for now I can only rely on specs.

Last edited by Kolyan2k; 12-11-2012 at 08:28 AM.
Kolyan2k is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Tags
328 xi, e91, snow, touring, wagon

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 09:41 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST