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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > BMW E90/E92/E93 3-series General Forums > General E90 Sedan / E91 Wagon / E92 Coupe / E93 Cabrio > 335i Reliability and mistake of buying it.



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      12-20-2012, 03:41 PM   #67
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Originally Posted by Efthreeoh View Post
So wait a second, BMW replaces the rear crankshaft seal and clutch (I assume due to oil contamination), but won't replace a valve cover gasket because of "wear & tear". Didn't you see this as ass backwards? So a seal that is supposed to seal around a rotating shaft is not seen as a wear and tear item, but a gasket (seal) that is STATIC by besign and doesn't seal any moving parts is a wear and tear issue. LOL

I'm sorry, but a car that is supposed to be as well engineered as a BMW shouldn't have failing valve cover gaskets, especially if the issue is material engineering. One of the ideas behind BMW is that you pay for better engineering, but it's really not so.
yah for sure. Just a gasket-why is would it crumble to pieces? Car is only 4 years old. Not old if you ask me.
The rear main/clutch was done at 40K kms, while under regular warranty. Factory extended didnt cover v/cover gasket after regular ended. Just poor material engineering-nothing more to be said.
CPO warranty is a crock. Wish there could be some way to go after BMW for misrepresenting the warranty.
I realize it does say no wear/tear items are covered, but doesn't that almost imply nothing is covered on the whole car? Everything is wear and tear!
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      12-20-2012, 03:45 PM   #68
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The only thing that really upsets me about BMWs are the waterpumps...it's pretty close to insulting that they fail with frequency on cars with modest mileage (>60K). They've had problems with these for well over a decade now, and so far as I can tell the failure rate is still alarmingly high. I agree with the whole 'pay to play' concept for engine/fueling/ignition issues, but a water pump has virtually nothing to do with "the ultimate driving machine". Just make one that works, end of story.
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      12-20-2012, 03:46 PM   #69
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yah for sure. Just a gasket-why is would it crumble to pieces? Car is only 4 years old. Not old if you ask me.
The rear main/clutch was done at 40K kms, while under regular warranty. Factory extended didnt cover v/cover gasket after regular ended. Just poor material engineering-nothing more to be said.
CPO warranty is a crock. Wish there could be some way to go after BMW for misrepresenting the warranty.
I realize it does say no wear/tear items are covered, but doesn't that almost imply nothing is covered on the whole car? Everything is wear and tear!
Canadian BMW owners get screwed by CPO, it's pretty good in the 'States but you guys got shafted
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      12-20-2012, 04:00 PM   #70
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Why should I pay to fix others mistakes, unless the post and any possibly defective arguments it has were offered to me in the as-is condition and i agree to take it with understanding that I will get a significant discount (or rebate in this case since the amount i owe is already 0)

He's the one bashing a whole BMW brand based on the condition of a heavily used second-hand car. It's not BMW's fault, or even the previous owner's fault since we can all do what we want to the cars we paid for. The responsibility falls to the buyer and the mechanic that inspected it...
At time of purchase, the car was 2 years old, with 38K kms (24K miles to American folk) and should not be considered heavily used. The car was mint when I received it, went through all dealer service: tires, brakes, fluids etc...everything that a BMW dealer would do to qualify it as a CPO car.

Enough BMW bashing, but there will not be a second one ever in my driveway. Not cool to worry if the CPO warranty will really cover anything if it goes wrong... especially when you paid more to get a CPO car.
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      12-20-2012, 04:25 PM   #71
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At time of purchase, the car was 2 years old, with 38K kms (24K miles to American folk) and should not be considered heavily used. The car was mint when I received it, went through all dealer service: tires, brakes, fluids etc...everything that a BMW dealer would do to qualify it as a CPO car.

Enough BMW bashing, but there will not be a second one ever in my driveway. Not cool to worry if the CPO warranty will really cover anything if it goes wrong... especially when you paid more to get a CPO car.
I would not a buy a car that one of cousins have owned, why because the guy drives like a clown. Speeds up at random moments and just abuses the car. USED car is a USED a car. IF you bought the car new and are the only owner than sorry that sucks. The Clutch issue lol the previous owner has prolly dropped it everytime he took off
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      12-20-2012, 04:51 PM   #72
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I am an elec engineer and know how you feel. Before I bought my 330i I talked to my BMW Indy and they simply recommended non-turbo I6, any of them e36-e90. They race BMW cars and non of them are N54 or N55, they have two e36 and just picked up e46 M3 to mod. He also said that N54 and N55 are engineering gems on paper and for the first 60K mi but they should have been built in Japan. They also have three loaners (all BMW) and one of them is '91 525i with 218K mi. I drove it several times and everything still works. Those were the days when BMW built cars to last. So far 330i has been rock solid but I take care of it very well and buy quality parts.
Well I guess they will bar the entire BMW range post 2012 since every single model is turbo charged
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      12-20-2012, 07:24 PM   #73
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I would not a buy a car that one of cousins have owned, why because the guy drives like a clown. Speeds up at random moments and just abuses the car. USED car is a USED a car. IF you bought the car new and are the only owner than sorry that sucks. The Clutch issue lol the previous owner has prolly dropped it everytime he took off
OMG. Clutch replaced because oil got onto it from leaking rear main....
Not because it was worn. Nothing else that needed to be replaced was because of abuse, just poor design/materials.
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      12-20-2012, 07:26 PM   #74
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The only thing that really upsets me about BMWs are the waterpumps...it's pretty close to insulting that they fail with frequency on cars with modest mileage (>60K). They've had problems with these for well over a decade now, and so far as I can tell the failure rate is still alarmingly high. I agree with the whole 'pay to play' concept for engine/fueling/ignition issues, but a water pump has virtually nothing to do with "the ultimate driving machine". Just make one that works, end of story.

Amen meng!
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      12-21-2012, 12:16 AM   #75
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As far as reliability goes it is hard to compare a basic appliance of a car to a more performance oriented luxury car in my honest opinion.

Luxury performance cars are more temperamental due to their advanced technology and greater stress on engine and transmission etc....compared to a run of mill basic economy class car.

The goal with economy cars is reliability and affordability. However, even with these economy cars if you get one that has too much luxury features you end up with lot more hassles.

As far reliability goes I am in corner of Koreans with their super long 10 year/100K warranty. Also, the build quality has improved by leaps and bounds. As is the case with my wife's Optima Hybrid. On the side note poor Toyota has had some miserable year with regards to reliability and now failing the new safety crash test for Both Camry and Prius with poor ratings.

However, I love my BMW and so far my 335i has been under warranty and I have not been stuck with any major issues that could not be taken care of under warranty. I love my E92 N54 335i more then any economy car I have ever driven.
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      12-21-2012, 01:37 AM   #76
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As far as reliability goes it is hard to compare a basic appliance of a car to a more performance oriented luxury car in my honest opinion.

Luxury performance cars are more temperamental due to their advanced technology and greater stress on engine and transmission etc....compared to a run of mill basic economy class car.

The goal with economy cars is reliability and affordability. However, even with these economy cars if you get one that has too much luxury features you end up with lot more hassles.
I have to disagree with this somewhat. I had a 300ZX twin turbo. It stickered for about $42K in 1991 dollars (which would probably equate to $70K or so in 2012 dollars). It was as high-tech of a sports car as you could get. DOHC, 24 valves, port FI, twin turbos, multi-link suspension, super-HICAS 4 wheel steering, blah blah blah. That car was 100% rock solid reliable for close to 100K miles before I sold it. Of those miles, 70K of it was spent heavily upgraded with larger turbos, injectors, intercoolers, ECU, etc. I beat the hell out of that car with doing loooong sustained high speed runs (late at night on deserted freeways - like on the I5 from LA to San Francisco). I remember driving it at sustained 100-160+ MPH speeds for hours on these long runs. I also did a bunch of really stupid street racing back then launching the car hard all the time and generally abusing the shit out of it.

That car had ZERO problems. Other than having to replace the clutch and multiple sets of tires, it was completely problem free. Now, I did do timing belt changes and replaced seals and gaskets when I did major service like the timing belts - but all of this was regular maintenance and/or preventive care. It never stranded me, or leaked, or broke down in close to 100K miles over 7 years.

Is a 2008 BMW more high tech than a 1991 300ZX TT? Yes. But, that Z was an excellent example of how sound, solid engineering could result in not only superior performance, style, and luxury (Z was a loaded GT car not a pure sports car) but also superior reliability. As for driving enjoyment, or "soul", well, the Z had it in spades. It had exceptional steering feel and the handling was awesome. It was every bit the equal of my 335is in these areas.

In short, I refuse to believe that BMW can't design a fantastically performing, luxurious AND reliable car at a fair (not cheap) price.
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      12-21-2012, 03:20 AM   #77
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I understand what the OP means. Why should 'simple' things like water/fuel pumps go bad so often? After all the years of R&D, small things like this should be ironed out.

Gotta pay to play.
I couldn't have put it better myself! Gotta pay to play.
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      12-22-2012, 02:26 AM   #78
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I think that first sentence below in your entire post sums up my point very well. You nailed it on the head you can't compare a 2008 BMW 335i to a 1991 300ZX in overall technology.

As for the in short statement I am with you. I think BMW should be able to provide us with super high technology, super luxurious cars and super high performance cars that never break down.

However, then I wake up and realize that I am in reality not fantasy.

But for the love of BMW enthusiast all over the world I hope this fantasy turns out right


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Is a 2008 BMW more high tech than a 1991 300ZX TT? Yes.

In short, I refuse to believe that BMW can't design a fantastically performing, luxurious AND reliable car at a fair (not cheap) price.
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      12-22-2012, 04:52 AM   #79
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Yes as a ME, I can understand and appreciate the complexity of this beast. But I'm sure you can appreciate that a company; in addition to producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, should also be in the Pursuit of Excellence. So they don't manufacture thousands of cars(n54), prior to complete life cycle testing and need to recall them afterwards, or have to produce a second gen N55. Surely BMW had enough N54 test mules that they could have inferred that HPFP, water pumps, rubber components, injectors, turbos etc will fail. I do enjoy working on cars-sometimes. But being a mechanic for many years working on other peoples stuff has kind of jaded my enthusiasm for mechanical repair; especially when it shouldn't be broken and I'm not getting paid hourly.
I'm pretty sure a Lexus is just as complex as a BMW. My currently '13 GS 350 has park assist, lane departure, magnetic suspension, and a host of things my previous '07 335i didn't have. I've only had it for 5k miles. Yet I'm pretty confident this thing will hold up 10x better than any BMW.

The fact is, BMW is UNABLE to make reliable cars. If they could, don't you think they would. So please stop all this nonsense (cool-aid) about how sophisticated cars are less reliable.

Now knowing all the above, I had a more realistic expectations of my '07 335i when I purchased it. I knew I would visit the dealer often, and that it would not be built like a tank (turbos replaced, fuel pump, and multiple seal leaks). I made sure I had extended warranty. And finally made sure to sell it before the warranty expired (100k mi).

As for that mystic BMW driving dynamic. I'm happy to say Lexus has found the secret in their '13 GS. After driving the GS350 for the past 5 months, I do not miss the 335i at all. It handles just as well as the 335i, but it rides 10x better. I absolutely love it. And knowing I can drive this puppy beyond 100k miles is just icing on the cake.
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      12-22-2012, 07:13 AM   #80
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I'm pretty sure a Lexus is just as complex as a BMW. My currently '13 GS 350 has park assist, lane departure, magnetic suspension, and a host of things my previous '07 335i didn't have. I've only had it for 5k miles. Yet I'm pretty confident this thing will hold up 10x better than any BMW.

The fact is, BMW is UNABLE to make reliable cars. If they could, don't you think they would. So please stop all this nonsense (cool-aid) about how sophisticated cars are less reliable.

Now knowing all the above, I had a more realistic expectations of my '07 335i when I purchased it. I knew I would visit the dealer often, and that it would not be built like a tank (turbos replaced, fuel pump, and multiple seal leaks). I made sure I had extended warranty. And finally made sure to sell it before the warranty expired (100k mi).

As for that mystic BMW driving dynamic. I'm happy to say Lexus has found the secret in their '13 GS. After driving the GS350 for the past 5 months, I do not miss the 335i at all. It handles just as well as the 335i, but it rides 10x better. I absolutely love it. And knowing I can drive this puppy beyond 100k miles is just icing on the cake.
Nice. I agree. I have had more fun in Pontiacs then I've had in this car. The whole driving dynamic is blown out of proportion. Yes the car drives solid, but if it keeps breaking it's no use anyway.
Thw pay to play comment really annoys me though. We aren't driving forumula one cars here. In some countries they used BMWs as taxis. Just face it, the n54 was a great concept but not for a mass production car.
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      12-22-2012, 09:06 AM   #81
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Originally Posted by greye90 View Post
Yes as a ME, I can understand and appreciate the complexity of this beast. But I'm sure you can appreciate that a company; in addition to producing the Ultimate Driving Machine, should also be in the Pursuit of Excellence. So they don't manufacture thousands of cars(n54), prior to complete life cycle testing and need to recall them afterwards, or have to produce a second gen N55. Surely BMW had enough N54 test mules that they could have inferred that HPFP, water pumps, rubber components, injectors, turbos etc will fail. I do enjoy working on cars-sometimes. But being a mechanic for many years working on other peoples stuff has kind of jaded my enthusiasm for mechanical repair; especially when it shouldn't be broken and I'm not getting paid hourly.
I'm pretty sure a Lexus is just as complex as a BMW. My currently '13 GS 350 has park assist, lane departure, magnetic suspension, and a host of things my previous '07 335i didn't have. I've only had it for 5k miles. Yet I'm pretty confident this thing will hold up 10x better than any BMW.

The fact is, BMW is UNABLE to make reliable cars. If they could, don't you think they would. So please stop all this nonsense (cool-aid) about how sophisticated cars are less reliable.

Now knowing all the above, I had a more realistic expectations of my '07 335i when I purchased it. I knew I would visit the dealer often, and that it would not be built like a tank (turbos replaced, fuel pump, and multiple seal leaks). I made sure I had extended warranty. And finally made sure to sell it before the warranty expired (100k mi).

As for that mystic BMW driving dynamic. I'm happy to say Lexus has found the secret in their '13 GS. After driving the GS350 for the past 5 months, I do not miss the 335i at all. It handles just as well as the 335i, but it rides 10x better. I absolutely love it. And knowing I can drive this puppy beyond 100k miles is just icing on the cake.
Your Toyota will never handle like your 335. The 3 will out corner/handle your GS till its silly.
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      12-22-2012, 09:23 AM   #82
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111k miles, 60k of those tuned no major issues...
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      12-22-2012, 09:43 AM   #83
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5yrs & STILL RUNNING GREAT

Ok - the 07' 335i is supose to be the one to stay away from due to reliability.
.
Well I beleive that most buyers are really complaining about & seeing the results of an inadequate "maintenance schedule". Yes - the 335i requires the OLD SCHOOL BMW maint & most 335i's are neglected with only inferrior standard maint.
.
Buying a used 335i without CPO and History is a mistake.
.
My CPO 335i - purchased with low miles and smothered with maintenance - purrs like only an in-line twin turbo 6 can.

.
5yrs and 80k she still has my riders -- saying WOW!
.
The thermostat / waterpump is and continues to be the one design flaw that I really hate.
.
I have not seen a 4dr Car that even comes close to the value and performance of my 335i. I plan to keep her another 80k --- so keep on trashing and complaining about reliability. I'll just keep laughing at you and your lack of traditional maintenance.
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      12-22-2012, 11:09 AM   #84
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[quote=mso4;1319499

As for that mystic BMW driving dynamic. I'm happy to say Lexus has found the secret in their '13 GS. After driving the GS350 for the past 5 months, I do not miss the 335i at all. It handles just as well as the 335i, but it rides 10x better. I absolutely love it. And knowing I can drive this puppy beyond 100k miles is just icing on the cake.[/QUOTE]

I did extensive research on the GS before I bought my E92. The point of my car was the driving dynamic and performance. I do canyon runs twice a week and needed a car that would deliver the feedback and thrill through the hairpins. I drove my sisters 13 GS through the mountains and the weight and body roll killed the performance of the car (steering was vague too). Lexus may be more reliable... but does it feel as connected as a E9x? No way.
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      12-22-2012, 02:02 PM   #85
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I did extensive research on the GS before I bought my E92. The point of my car was the driving dynamic and performance. I do canyon runs twice a week and needed a car that would deliver the feedback and thrill through the hairpins. I drove my sisters 13 GS through the mountains and the weight and body roll killed the performance of the car (steering was vague too). Lexus may be more reliable... but does it feel as connected as a E9x? No way.
I love my 335i when I had it. It was my all time favorite car to drive. With regard to the GS I have the F Sport. Not sure which version your sister had. I would expect the Luxury version to have more body roll than the F Sport.

The more i drive the GS the more I prefer if over my 335i with Sport Package. It may not be as connected as the 335i given its larger size and extra 400lbs. But it's damn close. Lexus has completely changed how their cars handle with the GS. All I know is I do not miss the 335i at all. Maybe the acceleration. It's a lot of fun driving a turbo car.

Aside from handling, BMW has nothing on Toyota/Lexus in terms of reliability. The 335i was a blast until it hits 60k miles. It's almost like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Previously my '01 330ci transmission broke at 60k. Yes 60k miles I was facing a $4k transmission repair. Interestingly last week my coworker told me the water pump on his '10 335i coupe with 52k miles broke. It cost him $1,600.

So my advice is, have some money set aside if you plan on owning a BMW past warranty. And finally, take your car to an independent mechanic to have it checked out for problems about 5k miles before your warrant expire. That $150 will be well spent.
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      12-22-2012, 02:13 PM   #86
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doing loooong sustained high speed runs (late at night on deserted freeways - like on the I5 from LA to San Francisco). I remember driving it at sustained 100-160+ MPH speeds for hours on these long runs.
I5 between LA and SFO deserted??? When was that? (LOL). I feel like there is no where to get away from traffic in this state. Maybe I need to be on the road at 3-4 am?

The only times I've been able to get up any decent speed have been on I-5 coming back to LA from SFO in late December (spend about 1-2 min above 100 in spurts), and coming back from Las Vegas in April on I-15 at 4 am where I was able to stay at 100 for a good while. Both times that was in my E39 528i. Both well over a year ago. Both times protected by Valentine One. Practically zero time above 100 in the E92 Need to take another road trip in winter when there's not so many damn tourists...

Update on my E92 335i: I had the valve cover gasket and oil filter housing gasket replaced under warranty at 49.8k miles.

My advice: Have an indie BMW tech take a look at your engine before warranty expires (good time to get your valves cleaned too). Then when you come in for service complain about specific things "I see a leak here". They are not allowed to go "fishing" for problems to repair under warranty, but they are obligated to look into your complaints and check for problems. Then they can fix the problems they find.
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      12-22-2012, 02:13 PM   #87
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I love my 335i when I had it. It was my all time favorite car to drive. With regard to the GS I have the F Sport. Not sure which version your sister had. I would expect the Luxury version to have more body roll than the F Sport.

The more i drive the GS the more I prefer if over my 335i with Sport Package. It may not be as connected as the 335i given its larger size and extra 400lbs. But it's damn close. Lexus has completely changed how their cars handle with the GS. All I know is I do not miss the 335i at all. Maybe the acceleration. It's a lot of fun driving a turbo car.

Aside from handling, BMW has nothing on Toyota/Lexus in terms of reliability. The 335i was a blast until it hits 60k miles. It's almost like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Previously my '01 330ci transmission broke at 60k. Yes 60k miles I was facing a $4k transmission repair. Interestingly last week my coworker told me the water pump on his '10 335i coupe with 52k miles broke. It cost him $1,600.

So my advice is, have some money set aside if you plan on owning a BMW past warranty. And finally, take your car to an independent mechanic to have it checked out for problems about 5k miles before your warrant expire. That $150 will be well spent.
i highlighted the bolded area because it is extremely and unfortunately true

i just got rid of mine at 75xxx miles . . . its not worth it to keep something with joke reliability because it has "that special driving dynamic" LOL

just for fun i encourage everyone to drive an F30, it has NO driving dynamic and feels as disconnected a lexus .
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      12-22-2012, 04:52 PM   #88
NoTempoLimitN54
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mso4 View Post
The 335i was a blast until it hits 60k miles. It's almost like a ticking time bomb waiting to go off. Previously my '01 330ci transmission broke at 60k. Yes 60k miles I was facing a $4k transmission repair...
Which transmission did the 330ci have and did you do any maintenance on it prior? Just curious here, 60k is way to early for either the auto or the manual to fail even without a fluid change. BTW, 60k is a maximum interval for automatic transmission fluid change, not necessarily a recommended interval.

Also, what went wrong with your '07 335i? Is it in a previous post?

Quote:
And finally, take your car to an independent mechanic to have it checked out for problems about 5k miles before your warrant expire. That $150 will be well spent.
I couldn't agree more. I just got valve cover, intake gasket and oil filter housing gaskets changed at $0 cost. The indie mechanic that cleaned my intake valves told me about the leaks and because I was able to complain about specific leaks, I got it taken care of.

It also pays to find a BMW center with a good reputation for service (ask around here), and find an SA you can work with, and then give him/her good ratings on the after-service survey. That's how the system works.
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