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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Porsche or Procede? 6MT



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      08-15-2007, 10:49 PM   #1
mike fab
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Porsche or Procede? 6MT

I like my 335 -- yet, unlike my old e45 -- I don't love it. I've been thinking about why. I think its the combination of the driving inputs between the clutch, shifter and throttle response.

I test drove a Cayman S today (and a Boxster too). Wow, they really do something right with those cars. That said, I'm not eager to get a p-car. I fear the cost of maintenance and it being impractical as a daily driver. I happily put 165K miles on my e46...

So, my question: will the Procede help the shortcomings that I percieve in the 335?

Please no flames. But, if you currently drive a 6MT 335(with Procede) & have driven a Porsche recently I'd like to know your thoughts on this. In your opinion, how does Procede change the perceived driving experience of the 6MT? Does it change the throttle response and provide better overall harmony with the clutch/shifter? How/Why?

By the way, I am aware of the CDV mod & I haven't done it. To this point, I have never Mod'd a car. But I'm either going to mod my 335 or sell it.

Thanks for your input.
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      08-15-2007, 11:02 PM   #2
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I don't get it. What exactly don't you like about the clutch? Is it too light? Is the throw too long? What?

The Cayman S is a nice two seater but the 335i is a GREAT 4 seater. Procede will tear a Cayman S a new one if that's what you're looking for. Heck, a stock 335i and Cayman S are right about even with each other. Thing about the 335 is that you can mod the shit out of it right now. It's turning out to be a great lil tuner car for the money. Slap on some BBK's, sway bars, Procede and other mods to the tune of about 10 grand and you've got one hell of a performance car which will compete in any class. You can't approach that kind of performance and handling in anything under a 911 - which will set you back quite a bit of $$$.
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      08-15-2007, 11:03 PM   #3
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FWIW, we have a Cayman S that we are working on right now. Today, it baselined at 257-260whp on the dyno. Yes, it's getting a PROcede. And yes, it is the same one used in the BMW

Cheers
Shiv
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      08-15-2007, 11:07 PM   #4
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Cayman S is an amazing handling car. If you can deal with it being a two seater, I'd do it. Biggest downside is your looking at 20k more than the 335 (For a decently equiped one), but they do have some nice discounts available.
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      08-15-2007, 11:09 PM   #5
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The Cayman S is a turbo?
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      08-15-2007, 11:13 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by continentalg5 View Post
The Cayman S is a turbo?
Neg - it's N/A.
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      08-15-2007, 11:16 PM   #7
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Procede will do more to a Turbo car than a NA. I'll stick with the 335i =)
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      08-15-2007, 11:28 PM   #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
FWIW, we have a Cayman S that we are working on right now. Today, it baselined at 257-260whp on the dyno. Yes, it's getting a PROcede. And yes, it is the same one used in the BMW
Versatile lil' box!
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      08-15-2007, 11:35 PM   #9
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It's the special came that they use. High quality imported stuff...
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      08-15-2007, 11:57 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gum5h03 View Post
I don't get it. What exactly don't you like about the clutch? Is it too light? Is the throw too long? What?.


The clutch/shifter aren't really my concern. I think the CDV will improve it. But what really struck me today after driving the p-cars was the throttle response.

I think the 6MT in particular exposes the 335's throttle response and makes the engine feel lazy (I've never driven the 335 auto, but I suspect that the auto hides some of this imprecision).

For example, 3rd gear in the Porsche was just more "connected". While cornering, you felt ever press of the throttle with precision and sharpness. It made the car lively and fun to drive.

Again, I don't necessarily need more torque. I don't care that the 335 can "kill" the Cayman. I am trying to figure out how to make my 335 more fun to drive.

Does the Procede improve throttle response? If so, how? Thanks for the feedback so far.
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      08-16-2007, 12:00 AM   #11
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Well, after driving the Cayman S I got in my 335 and my car suddenly felt somewhat soft and floaty in comparison. Part of it was certainly due to the difference in the seats. The CS had much more firm seats (which I actually liked), and part of it was undoubtedly due to the added mass of my car. But back-to-back, the difference was striking. As a daily driver however, I don't think there's a better ride/handling compromise on the planet than my car.

That said, I'm confident that my 335 could keep up with a Cayman S around just about any track. The suspension is just so well balanced and capable, even if it isn't as stiff as the Cayman's. And the fat helpings of torque don't hurt either.
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      08-16-2007, 12:01 AM   #12
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It's funny. The only thing I don't like about the Cayman S is the engine. Feels anemic considering how good the chassis is. It's got a nice punch in the first inch or so of throttle travel (esp with the Sport mode engaged). But after that first inch, there isn't much left I'd love to drive a Cayman with a PROceded 335-like power characteristics.

-shiv
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      08-16-2007, 12:11 AM   #13
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the BMW just isolates you from the road a bit more, BMW has made more "luxury" compromises than Porsche has

the steering, clutch, brakes don't communicate as much as the Porsche cars

the BMW is better than most on the road, but the P cars are better



to the OP, I think the CDV mod may help your complaints, but I don't think more HP is the answer
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      08-16-2007, 12:13 AM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It's funny. The only thing I don't like about the Cayman S is the engine. Feels anemic considering how good the chassis is. It's got a nice punch in the first inch or so of throttle travel (esp with the Sport mode engaged). But after that first inch, there isn't much left I'd love to drive a Cayman with a PROceded 335-like power characteristics.

-shiv
the poor P car's been handicapped to keep it from making it's big brother look bad, as I'm sure you already know it's got some taller gearing in 2nd to help slow it down compared to the 911

The P car definetly needs to be "wound up" where the 335 pulls hard all the time

what are you guys up to anyways? turbo's... engine swaps... NA tuning?
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      08-16-2007, 12:17 AM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
I'd love to drive a Cayman with a PROceded 335-like power characteristics.

-shiv

That would be the Cayman Turbo.
But sadly it's VERY doubtful that will ever happen from Porsche...it would cut into the sales and performance of the 911.

On that point, power does not make the most enjoyable part of a car.
It doesn't matter of a PROceded 335i "can rip the Cayman S a new one".

It's the joy of driving the CAR that makes the difference.

I SERIOUSLY considered the Cayman S myself.
But the $66k price tag for the car with the options I wanted was almost $20K more than the 335i.
I liked the 335i A LOT and didn't feel the Porsche was worth $20k more.
And there was few to none affordable mod options for the Porsche.
Even aftermarket wheels cost $3-4k

What it comes down to is the driving enjoyment of the car.
A Mazda Miata offers a TON of driving enjoyment...even though it's not the most expensive, nor fast car.

If you feel you can spend the $20K extra for the CS and that's worth it, get the P-car.
It's a fantastic car, but as Shiv says, is in need of 50-60 more hp and tq.
It's chassis can EASILY handle it (as it's argueably better than the 911's), but without a doubt, you won't get that kind of power in the Cayman S with a piggyback, or any other reasonably priced mods...you need a turbo added at a very high cost.
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      08-16-2007, 12:18 AM   #16
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dont mean to go off topic but shiv can you tell us what you expect out of the proceeded cayman s and some of the other n/a cars that you always seem to mention your playing with?
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      08-16-2007, 12:19 AM   #17
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word on the street is you can get 10% off sticker on the Cayman S without even really haggling these days.........
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      08-16-2007, 12:29 AM   #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by esbezee92 View Post
dont mean to go off topic but shiv can you tell us what you expect out of the proceeded cayman s and some of the other n/a cars that you always seem to mention your playing with?
I'll be happy if we can pull another 10-15whp out of the Cayman with just a PROcede. Not having turbos really suck. My 996 Turbo, on the other hand, picked up 60-70hp and 100lbft of the torque at the wheels with just the PROcede. I wouldn't be entirely surprised if we could pick up 30hp on the Gallardo. But that's only a 6% gain in power over stock

Rule of Thumb: Don't expect much when it comes to tuning naturally aspirated engines. They are boring. Unless, of course, we're talking about a 500bhp 5 liter V10 :rocks:

Shiv
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      08-16-2007, 12:41 AM   #19
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Stock Cayman S 2954lbs/295hp = 10.0 lb/hp
Stock 335i e92 3584lbs/315hp = 11.4 lb/hp

A stock Cayman S should be a noticeably quicker car, if you're only concerned about straight line speed. Otherwise, well it's a light sports car and the 335i isn't.

Mods:

So far, you're only going to get 15 more HP from the Cayman with electronic tuning alone. They typically just reflash the Bosch Motronic ECU for ~$1000. That's an additional 15hp for $1000.

TechArt, Orton, et al Cayman S 2954lbs/310hp = 9.5 lb/hp (ECU reflash alone)
Procede v2 335i e92 3584lbs/425hp = 8.4 lb/hp (piggyback alone)

Next hp-making upgrade for the Cayman would be the headers, which gives you 10hp more. So in the current market, you're looking at a getting mere 25 hp over stock for your $4000. (Maybe Vishnu sees some opportunity here)

Way off topic, but was reading about an interesting engine swap for the Cayman being done by Orton. It's a low-boost 3.8L (997 S engine?) twin-turbo making 550 HP. That's 5.3 lb/hp.

For reference, a Corvette Z06 is 3132 lb/505hp = 6.2lbs/hp.
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      08-16-2007, 12:57 AM   #20
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Of course if you have the money and want a little more out of the Cayman there is always this.

http://www.worldcarfans.com/1070810....man-test-drive

http://www.6speedonline.com/forums/s...ad.php?t=81728
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      08-16-2007, 01:02 AM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Driver72 View Post
That would be the Cayman Turbo.
But sadly it's VERY doubtful that will ever happen from Porsche...it would cut into the sales and performance of the 911.
It doesn't need to happen from Porsche. Any qualified tuner can put turbo on it.

As OP was after immediate responsiveness NA is the way to go, however. The throttle response of 335i will never match the one onf Cayman.



FWIW For me, I will trade in some throttle response for getting turbo.

And a last note, why do people always compare tuned 335i against stock anyothercar.
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      08-16-2007, 01:18 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bnj View Post
And a last note, why do people always compare tuned 335i against stock anyothercar.
Maybe due to the small expense and quick install of the piggyback, the mod is thought of as a feature.
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