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      12-28-2012, 02:17 PM   #45
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The most laughable word in politics today is 'cuts'. There are no cuts, the rate of increase in public expenditure (ie that spend by the Government in our name) is reducing but that isn't cuts. The amount of bullshit spoken in politics and believed by a gullible public is a joke. We will pay the price for Gordon Brown's largesse with OUR money for generations to come.

I for one am a supporter of a flat tax system, as described in this TaxPayers Alliance paper, worth a read.

http://2020tax.org
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      12-28-2012, 02:29 PM   #46
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i also support flat rate of tax, as well as withdrawal / reform of the welfare state to a few simple areas:

* Enforced / regulated health insurance w/ privately run health institutions - only A&E should be publicly funded

* Something to encourage people to take control of their own existence.. perhaps a tiered reduction in benefits over 10 years? maybe longer... but it needs to be in ALL areas. Job Seekers, Child Benefit, Housing etc.. etc..

flat rate of tax though, although lovely for people already earning over the 20% threshold (where it should probably be set) is an absolutely horrific prospect for those earning below it... a very tough sell!
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      12-28-2012, 02:38 PM   #47
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i also support flat rate of tax, as well as withdrawal / reform of the welfare state to a few simple areas:

* Enforced / regulated health insurance w/ privately run health institutions - only A&E should be publicly funded

* Something to encourage people to take control of their own existence.. perhaps a tiered reduction in benefits over 10 years? maybe longer... but it needs to be in ALL areas. Job Seekers, Child Benefit, Housing etc.. etc..

flat rate of tax though, although lovely for people already earning over the 20% threshold is an absolutely horrific prospect for those earning below it... a very tough sell!
Not sure I would wish to reform the health sector as much.

30% flat tax includes NI though, so am not sure that it would make a huge difference to those earning between the tax threshold of 10K and the HRT threshold at 43K (or whatever it is).

The key to this is though that neither of the centre/mainstream parties would have the bollocks or backbone to actually adopt a flat tax system. The other big bug bear of mine is the EU. Leaving the mainstream EU and renegotiating a trading partnership would have huge populist support and save us at least 10Bn/year. Again, none of the spineless, sycophantic bunch of arseholes in Westminster have the desire to do so.
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      12-28-2012, 02:51 PM   #48
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i think leaving the EU could be a bit of a double edged sword.. it will save a load of cash, but it will also possibly turn the UK into a very insignificant island in the north sea..

my opinion on the topic is still being formed
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      12-28-2012, 03:49 PM   #49
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flat rate of tax though, although lovely for people already earning over the 20% threshold (where it should probably be set) is an absolutely horrific prospect for those earning below it... a very tough sell!
Coupled with your other proposals,yes,it would be a very,very tough sell.

A regulated private health scheme would never work,you only have to look at other areas which were once state owned & ran,and have now been privatised.
The Govt can't control those companies any more than they can control the banking sector,despite constant bullshit to the contrary.

As for benefit reforms,the Govt are already clamping down in that area,soon there will thousands of disabled people who have no realistic chance of ever finding a job,being told tough,WE (DWP) think you can work,so get out there and find it.
Oh and by the way, we are cutting your benefits,so you'll have to find somewhere else to live,where the chances of finding a job are ten times worse than where you currently reside.

It must be nice to be rich,and not worry about those who are worse off then you

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i think leaving the EU could be a bit of a double edged sword.. it will save a load of cash, but it will also possibly turn the UK into a very insignificant island in the north sea..

my opinion on the topic is still being formed
Sorry I couldn't disagree more,you only have to look at other countries outside of an increasingly poor club,where the subs go to prop up the most profligate countries, within a club that most would rather leave.

Look at Norway,trade very successfully within the EU despite being an outsider, and have arguably the best standard of living in the western world.

Yes,Norway is oil rich,however they do export other goods all over the world.

The UK need to leave the EU,and soon.
Come 2013,when the citizens of other countries have the right to come here,to live and to work,worrying about a pension will probably have slipped down the priority list of quite a few,and the welfare bill will be even more unsustainable than it is now.

Britain has walked into what is in my opinion the biggest crisis already,sadly the Labour Govt's eyes were wide open whilst they encouraged and allowed the biggest tide of immigrants to enter the UK be it legally or not since the 50's and early 60's.

The coalition are no better,there just as complicit,despite the rhetoric bullshit.

It's time to shut the borders,the countries already two thirds sunk in so many ways,lets hope the Politicians see sense and get the fuck out of the EU,and stop kowtowing to the Brussels mafia,who only have their own countries interests at heart.








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      12-28-2012, 04:07 PM   #50
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Hot coupe, I'll be your campaign manager.

I think the EU referendum is closer than ever, the clock is ticking and the mainstream politicians know full well what the result of an 'in/out' referendum will be, and it isn't what they want. I want to see the look of Herman van Rompuy's and Baroness Ashton's faces (and their fellow unelected cronies) when the UK give them the good two fingered British salute - the EU is a scandal.
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      12-28-2012, 07:32 PM   #51
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Moneyweek

The Moneyweek article paints a much worse picture than I was predicting but then again I knew the 2008 crisis was coming but not when and certainly not on the scale it did. Unfortunately it all sounds entirely feasible, indeed almost likely.

If you think of the money the Government has pumped out to prop up the banks, combined with the money printed by the BoE in its so-called quantitative easing, someone's going to have to pay and since Governments are 100% parasitic, we all know who that will be.

The Euro has proven itself to be unmanagable as a currency and I would agree that all that's keeping Britain afloat are generously low borrowing rates. Any rises there and its clear that it all hits the fan. Time to act, I'd say
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      12-28-2012, 07:53 PM   #52
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Dont know if it has been mentioned but, a lot of people now have the income from thier parents estates. If this would have been posted 40 years ago i think the widespread panic may have spread.

Today, nah, my parents have looked after me, i will look after my kids and so on and so on. You work for a insurance provider? Grow a pair, get a better paying job, whatever it takes.
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      12-28-2012, 10:23 PM   #53
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Dont know if it has been mentioned but, a lot of people now have the income from thier parents estates. If this would have been posted 40 years ago i think the widespread panic may have spread.

Today, nah, my parents have looked after me, i will look after my kids and so on and so on. You work for a insurance provider? Grow a pair, get a better paying job, whatever it takes.
I would not count on that.

Care costs are astronomically expensive and is another ticking time bomb.
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      12-29-2012, 02:17 AM   #54
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Merry Christmas everyone

Oh, and Pete, I was technically accurate at the time of print . It was Christmas Day afterall so please excuse my lack of depth in my response .

Welcome toy cheery world guys!! What do you do Steve?
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      12-29-2012, 03:40 AM   #55
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I don't have enough knowledge about pensions to really understand lots of things been disscussed here but anyone who describes a Net income of 2400 as 'meagre' isn't living in the real world.

It reminds me of a party of I went to at Uni where a chap from a rather well off family announced to the room at the top of his voice how he didn't see it was possible to survive on a 'Rubbish' wage of 70K a year...bear in mind half of the people in the room didn't have to pay full tuition fees because their parent/s incomes were less than 25k. The chap latter found me and asked me why no one was talking to him
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      12-29-2012, 04:04 AM   #56
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I don't have enough knowledge about pensions to really understand lots of things been disscussed here but anyone who describes a Net income of 2400 as 'meagre' isn't living in the real world.

It reminds me of a party of I went to at Uni where a chap from a rather well off family announced to the room at the top of his voice how he didn't see it was possible to survive on a 'Rubbish' wage of 70K a year...bear in mind half of the people in the room didn't have to pay full tuition fees because their parent/s incomes were less than 25k. The chap latter found me and asked me why no one was talking to him
The word 'meagre' was used to describe the pension that could be bought by maxing out both pension allowance and state pension. 2,400 is the best one can hope (most won't come anywhere near reaching this) In the past, a pension pot of 1.25M would have bought a pension of 6K+ a month, now its only 2,400...meagre by comparison.

If 2,400 is what the top 6% are making, what to do you think the average pensioner is going to be getting? A lot, lot less, indeed ca. 35%-40% of what their parents got for the same money and that's the point.

The point isn't whether 2,400 is a lot or not or whether people can live on 2,400. The point is that it takes a maxed out pension pot to get 2,400 which is a very meagre return on 1.25M

Happily for the civil servants and politicians, whose pensions are paid by the tax payers; their top pension is still around $5,200

Last edited by SteveC; 12-29-2012 at 05:10 AM.
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      12-31-2012, 05:57 AM   #57
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With the utmost respect, I would point out that a lot of UK residents have already tried something similar to what you're suggesting and many came unstuck. Anyone investing in Cypress, Greece, Spain, Portugal, Ireland, the new EU Member States or US property and real estate has seen massive hits to their portfolios, some of which may take up to a decade or more to recover. There's no doubt that there are now some very interesting properties available for relatively small money, but that doesn't guarantee a return necessarily.

Points to watch with such a strategy include;

1. Currency fluctuation risk....can really hurt when currency shifts 20 or more percent the wrong way
2. Property taxes for non-Doms...often targeted by Governments because doing so is very popular with voters
3. Forex laws....related to the repatriation of capital....often easy to move capital in but not back out of many countries
4. UK tax liability....UK residents are typically liable for tax on foreign earnings. And if there's no tax treaty then double taxation is a real possibility
5. Social laws regulating property rental....it can be a real problem in some countries if a tennant loses their job or becomes infirm. and can't pay the rent.
6. Contractual obligations; for example remediation of environmental issues
7. Ownership issues.....ownership in many former East European Countries for example is still a contentious subject.
7. Loss of tax shelters at source....very often its not how much you earn but how much you've managed to shelter from tax that makes the difference.

While far from being an expert, I've lived and owned several houses abroad, so know something about that which I speak.
Oh I know it's not as easy as it sounds and their are many pitfalls but nothing that isn't insurmountable by a) choosing the right place to invest in the first place and b) the advice of a decent tax lawyer. Besides I am talking about living abroad so currency or property fluctuations won't really matter if all your property is already paid and your rental income is unaffected.

My main point though is that the OP painted a picture of doom and gloom, my answer is to not rely on someone else to sort your finances\retirement for you. Sticking money into a pension pot and forgetting about it is easy but if you go that route, just don't be surprised when it isn't worth as much as you thought it was going to be or the government has raided it to pay for their mistakes.

Many people are far too lazy when it comes to securing their financial future. You need to adopt a different attitude, take control of it yourself and take positive steps to ensure that you come up with something that works for you so that you aren't left at the whim of others.
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      12-31-2012, 06:40 AM   #58
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Coupled with your other proposals,yes,it would be a very,very tough sell.

A regulated private health scheme would never work,you only have to look at other areas which were once state owned & ran,and have now been privatised.
The Govt can't control those companies any more than they can control the banking sector,despite constant bullshit to the contrary.

As for benefit reforms,the Govt are already clamping down in that area,soon there will thousands of disabled people who have no realistic chance of ever finding a job,being told tough,WE (DWP) think you can work,so get out there and find it.
Oh and by the way, we are cutting your benefits,so you'll have to find somewhere else to live,where the chances of finding a job are ten times worse than where you currently reside.

It must be nice to be rich,and not worry about those who are worse off then you



Sorry I couldn't disagree more,you only have to look at other countries outside of an increasingly poor club,where the subs go to prop up the most profligate countries, within a club that most would rather leave.

Look at Norway,trade very successfully within the EU despite being an outsider, and have arguably the best standard of living in the western world.

Yes,Norway is oil rich,however they do export other goods all over the world.

The UK need to leave the EU,and soon.
Come 2013,when the citizens of other countries have the right to come here,to live and to work,worrying about a pension will probably have slipped down the priority list of quite a few,and the welfare bill will be even more unsustainable than it is now.

Britain has walked into what is in my opinion the biggest crisis already,sadly the Labour Govt's eyes were wide open whilst they encouraged and allowed the biggest tide of immigrants to enter the UK be it legally or not since the 50's and early 60's.

The coalition are no better,there just as complicit,despite the rhetoric bullshit.

It's time to shut the borders,the countries already two thirds sunk in so many ways,lets hope the Politicians see sense and get the fuck out of the EU,and stop kowtowing to the Brussels mafia,who only have their own countries interests at heart.








And.........................breathe
All very valid points and a great argument for leaving. Except i dont think you factored in the economic aspect of being in the E.U.

I very much doubt U.K would leave and that the E.U would let it.

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      12-31-2012, 07:44 AM   #59
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Many people are far too lazy when it comes to securing their financial future. You need to adopt a different attitude, take control of it yourself and take positive steps to ensure that you come up with something that works for you so that you aren't left at the whim of others.
This says it all for me. Take control of your own destiny, i have attempted to. However, when the arseholes in power keep changing the regulatory landscape every few years (often for the worse) it grinds you down.

Whilst I am in a blindingly grumpy mood, the facts in this article piss me off like nothing else:

"In the years between 2003 and 2010, Labour spent a staggering 171bn on tax credits, contributing to a 60% rise in the welfare bill,"

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-20873180

Whoever said socialism was dead, this is yet another strand of Gordo Brown's everlasting legacy....the redistribution of wealth and cultivation of the Welfare State dependancy, maybe Sir William Beveridge is turning in his grave.
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      12-31-2012, 07:50 AM   #60
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All very valid points and a great argument for leaving. Except i dont think you factored in the economic aspect of being in the E.U.

I very much doubt U.K would leave and that the E.U would let it.

Exactly, despite evidence to the contrary politicians aren't all stupid. From Joe Public's point of view it's very easy to say leave the EU but there are some people doing very nicely from the fact that Britain is in the E.U. and it also fits in with the one world order that many politicians seem to be so enamoured with.

Unfortunately we don't get to see all the political and more importantly financial machinations that go on behind the scenes, the decision makers don't care as long as they are still getting rich and they are buffered from the real life consequences of their actions, it's us lot that get lumbered with the consequences.
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