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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > LPFP Tech info



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      12-26-2012, 04:07 PM   #23
Aridk
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
3) As soon as I get my hands on one. Either that or a Vargas Stg2 which should be hitting the streets soon around here.

Shiv
Forget that s#2t from what I read and understood the Vagas stage stage 2 is simmullar to the turbodynamics stage 2, stock core and therefore smaller turbines/compressure wheels.
Now you mentioned Vagas! their stage 3 will be the real challege,and here lies the difficulty, youŽll proberbly be the only one able to fine tune it and doing so compeating against your own singleT
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      12-26-2012, 04:18 PM   #24
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That sounded real bad not my intension, looking forward to some turbo upgrade/fuelupgrade dynos
Nevertheles I se the Vagas stage 3 compeating against your single turbo
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      12-26-2012, 06:34 PM   #25
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
It is already in production. Many forum members already run it. It can be purchases through either us or FFTEC. Our website will be updated accordingly by the New Year.
$600
No bueno.

Can you post the 650whp e85 only run with datalogs?

Thanks
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      12-27-2012, 03:26 PM   #26
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So for my understanding and to summarize:

This helps the fuel system to retain pressure under high load situations.
And might be beneficial when:

- Running ST with or without Exx fuels
- Running RB's with Exx fuels
- Running stock with high PSI and Exx fuels

Running meth next to the above does not realy play a role, altough meth might be able to mascarade FP issues for a short moment I assume..

A LPFP upgrade might not per definition be required when:

- Running stock
- FBO no Exx fuels
- RB's but no Exx fuels

Is this the correct understanding?
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      12-27-2012, 10:11 PM   #27
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Is there an actual picture of what the end product looks like?

I was looking for a fuel pump upgrade, but I wanted it to look flush with the rest of the car.
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      12-28-2012, 01:20 AM   #28
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Originally Posted by jyeah View Post
Is there an actual picture of what the end product looks like?

I was looking for a fuel pump upgrade, but I wanted it to look flush with the rest of the car.
The Vishnu/FFtec fuel pump upgrade goes inside the fuel tank, so you never know it's there.
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      12-28-2012, 02:07 AM   #29
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Where does the extra pump draw current from? Is it protected with an inline fuse, or is there a fuse in the fuse box? Is it necessary to lay additional conductors?
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      12-28-2012, 10:09 AM   #30
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It seems people tend to get caught up in the large paragraphs and that makes them feel cozy inside without any actual facts being given out. I see no logs just numbers that could or could not be fudged, we don't know. I'm not taking sides here, I just like to see proof of any products validity instead of marketing.

How about we get some customers to post their own personal logged runs including FP?

Maybe of a 100% E85 car, RB car, single turbo car? Anyone can spit out numbers on a product they sell, but can it be shown and proved? I'm sure the pump works but does it work BETTER than any other solution like you claim. I understand the theory and yes it is sound, but that doesn't always translate to real world performance.

The only log I have seen of a car with this new inline pump still had a pressure drop and I believe they were still on stock turbos with 100% E85.

And to toss in my personal opinion. To release a product and at the same time outright attack or slam their competitor is classless.

Last edited by BigBoosting; 12-28-2012 at 10:15 AM.
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      12-28-2012, 10:18 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
It seems people tend to get caught up in the large paragraphs and that makes them feel cozy inside without any actual facts being given out. I see no logs just numbers that could or could not be fudged, we don't know. I'm not taking sides here, I just like to see proof of any products validity instead of marketing.

How about we get some customers to post their own personal logged runs including FP?

Maybe of a 100% E85 car, RB car, single turbo car? Anyone can spit out numbers on a product they sell, but can it be shown and proved? I'm sure the pump works but does it work BETTER than any other solution like you claim. I understand the theory and yes it is sound, but that doesn't always translate to real world performance.

The only log I have seen of a car with this new inline pump still had a pressure drop and I believe they were still on stock turbos with 100% E85.
Where do you get the motivation for logging and posting? I mean, sure, if you'd be willing to buy one, log it and post the log, it would be appreciated, but are you motivated enough to actually do it?
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      12-28-2012, 10:24 AM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
Where do you get the motivation for logging and posting? I mean, sure, if you'd be willing to buy one, log it and post the log, it would be appreciated, but are you motivated enough to actually do it?
Your post is a strange one which im not sure I understand. Does someone need to be "motivated" to post logs to prove a product, I really don't get what you are trying to say there?

Why would I have to purchase the product? The current in-line pump customers already log their cars, all they have to do is post. Again, the only one I have seen posted didn't look that promising. There was a significant pressure drop.

Shiv has a knack for marketing, anyone can see that. To make his sales pitch more attractive or meaningful there should be facts and testing to stand behind his claims. That is most defiantly not an unreasonable expectation.
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      12-28-2012, 10:42 AM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Your post is a strange one which im not sure I understand. Does someone need to be "motivated" to post logs to prove a product, I really don't get what you are trying to say there?

Why would I have to purchase the product? The current in-line pump customers already log their cars, all they have to do is post. Again, the only one I have seen posted didn't look that promising. There was a significant pressure drop.

Shiv has a knack for marketing, anyone can see that. To make his sales pitch more attractive or meaningful there should be facts and testing to stand behind his claims. That is most defiantly not an unreasonable expectation.
I'd like to see independent logs with RBs at 100% E85 over 500whp no meth. Its not very comforting that the data was edited after the first post.
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      12-28-2012, 12:21 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Your post is a strange one which im not sure I understand. Does someone need to be "motivated" to post logs to prove a product, I really don't get what you are trying to say there?

Why would I have to purchase the product? The current in-line pump customers already log their cars, all they have to do is post. Again, the only one I have seen posted didn't look that promising. There was a significant pressure drop.

Shiv has a knack for marketing, anyone can see that. To make his sales pitch more attractive or meaningful there should be facts and testing to stand behind his claims. That is most defiantly not an unreasonable expectation.
You need to have both the means and the motivation to do anything. Which one do we lack here?

You could do it, but you don't have the motivation. I could do it, but I don't have the motivation. Someone having the mod could post a log, but they don't have the motivation. Anyone selling FMICs, DPs, Intakes, fuel pumps etc could post logs, but most of them do not have the motivation. Those having a problem and looking for help could be motivated to post a log.

I have bought dozens if not hundreds of fuel pumps based on their specs alone. Would you buy this fuel pump upgrade if you would see a good log of it? Honestly?
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      12-28-2012, 01:27 PM   #35
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If everything is a conspiracy, dont buy the product?

A company goes out of its way on Christmas day to post product info and all of a sudden it's a conspiracy? LOL
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      12-28-2012, 01:30 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigBoosting View Post
Your post is a strange one which im not sure I understand. Does someone need to be "motivated" to post logs to prove a product, I really don't get what you are trying to say there?

Why would I have to purchase the product? The current in-line pump customers already log their cars, all they have to do is post. Again, the only one I have seen posted didn't look that promising. There was a significant pressure drop.

Shiv has a knack for marketing, anyone can see that. To make his sales pitch more attractive or meaningful there should be facts and testing to stand behind his claims. That is most defiantly not an unreasonable expectation.
You need to have both the means and the motivation to do anything. Which one do we lack here?

You could do it, but you don't have the motivation. I could do it, but I don't have the motivation. Someone having the mod could post a log, but they don't have the motivation. Anyone selling FMICs, DPs, Intakes, fuel pumps etc could post logs, but most of them do not have the motivation. Those having a problem and looking for help could be motivated to post a log.

I have bought dozens if not hundreds of fuel pumps based on their specs alone. Would you buy this fuel pump upgrade if you would see a good log of it? Honestly?
That's an extraordinary quantity of fuel pumps, barring exaggeration.
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      12-28-2012, 04:24 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jippii ensio View Post
I have bought dozens if not hundreds of fuel pumps based on their specs alone. Would you buy this fuel pump upgrade if you would see a good log of it? Honestly?
Good point. Lets see flow specs. Can we get flow specs for the upgraded pump combo?
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      12-28-2012, 04:59 PM   #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff@topgearsolutions View Post
If everything is a conspiracy, dont buy the product?

A company goes out of its way on Christmas day to post product info and all of a sudden it's a conspiracy? LOL
+1 LOL
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      12-28-2012, 05:30 PM   #39
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Is this where I renew my membership in the Flat Earth Society? lol!
C'mon, Shiv already posted the numbers. If you want to verify the flow capacity of this pump there's plenty of other platforms that have pushed the limits of this pump.
It's no secret that running two pumps inline will boost the capacty beyond the range of a single pump. That's why the stock BMW fuel system runs two pumps inline. The first pump raises the pressure so the second pump doesn't have to work as hard. Here's some good data showing how various pumps gain flow when combined in parallel and series configurations; http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...mp-test-5.html
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      12-28-2012, 05:56 PM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dave W. View Post
Is this where I renew my membership in the Flat Earth Society? lol!
C'mon, Shiv already posted the numbers. If you want to verify the flow capacity of this pump there's plenty of other platforms that have pushed the limits of this pump.
It's no secret that running two pumps inline will boost the capacty beyond the range of a single pump. That's why the stock BMW fuel system runs two pumps inline. The first pump raises the pressure so the second pump doesn't have to work as hard. Here's some good data showing how various pumps gain flow when combined in parallel and series configurations; http://forums.evolutionm.net/evo-eng...mp-test-5.html
The stock system runs two pumps in series to boost the pressure. We are trying to boost flow with this setup, aren't we?

I agree with jippii though, lets see the flow specs of the two pumps combined.
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      12-28-2012, 09:42 PM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ign335i View Post
The stock system runs two pumps in series to boost the pressure. We are trying to boost flow with this setup, aren't we?

I agree with jippii though, lets see the flow specs of the two pumps combined.
Shiv posted the numbers for flow in the first post. If you doubt his results (as you have the right to do) then consult another source. That's why I posted the link to the fuel pump test above. From those results and many more it should be apparent that as pressure goes up, flow drops. Conversely, as pressure goes down flow goes up. This is a common trait among many types of pump, not just fuel pumps.

Another trait that stands out in the link I posted is that when two pumps are combined in series the flow increases because each pump shares the pressure. In other words, if the fuel system is running at 80 psi for example, each pump only sees 40psi. This reduces the strain on the pumps tremendously which increases reliability, as Shiv already noted. In the BMW platform that is a double win since the stock LPFP seems to go bad on a regular basis.
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      12-28-2012, 10:05 PM   #42
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I don't think anyone here is saying there is a conspiracy. I personally and would assume any consumer would like to see some of the stated stats backed up with real world results. Which independent logs would do so. I don't see why that comes off as a big deal or unreasonable?

The original post bashes the other options saying they are inferior to his design. Thats fine to do if you can show that to be true with real results, not numbers on paper. There are logs from the other pump options but none from this inline option.
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      12-29-2012, 12:20 AM   #43
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Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Nope. It's a stand-alone product. Had nothing to do with the kind of tune you have.
Thanks
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      01-07-2013, 08:42 PM   #44
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As someone who "gave in" to the marketing and brought one of Shiv's systems, I find these pervasive, multi-thread arguments to be just odd. I read them over and over and the counterarguments seem to stem from theory and anecdotes, both of which might be valid in their own right, but do little to invalidate what Shiv is doing. I got exactly what I paid for, and the problems I face are exactly the problems Shiv outlined to me ahead of time. It was through dyno testing that I witnessed, first-hand, the effects of 1: an aging fuel pump running 100% E85, 2: the occasional hiccup of a brand new fuel pump running E85 (not as bad as the old one), and 3: the effects of the torque on the clutch.

I will likely be getting this fuel pump set up, as well, since my fuel pumps cannot keep up with the E85 flow. Additionally, I would like my fuel pump system to last much longer, and my LPFP is already being overstressed with the extra flow. I will likely have the fuel pump install done with the clutch job, once I get my hands on an aftermarket clutch to get an idea of driving feel.

I've sent my car to FFTEC a couple of times, and, I don't know. Even Shiv's suggestions for mod-friendly dealerships were right on the mark. Should I be feeling scammed by now, as people's criticisms and first-priority emphasis on marketing seem to insist? All I feel like is a satisfied customer. Someone help me out, here.
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