[BigBoosting]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

As someone who "gave in" to the marketing and brought one of Shiv's systems, I find these pervasive, multi-thread arguments to be just odd. I read them over and over and the counterarguments seem to stem from theory and anecdotes, both of which might be valid in their own right, but do little to invalidate what Shiv is doing. I got exactly what I paid for, and the problems I face are exactly the problems Shiv outlined to me ahead of time. It was through dyno testing that I witnessed, first-hand, the effects of 1: an aging fuel pump running 100% E85, 2: the occasional hiccup of a brand new fuel pump running E85 (not as bad as the old one), and 3: the effects of the torque on the clutch.

I will likely be getting this fuel pump set up, as well, since my fuel pumps cannot keep up with the E85 flow. Additionally, I would like my fuel pump system to last much longer, and my LPFP is already being overstressed with the extra flow. I will likely have the fuel pump install done with the clutch job, once I get my hands on an aftermarket clutch to get an idea of driving feel.

I've sent my car to FFTEC a couple of times, and, I don't know. Even Shiv's suggestions for mod-friendly dealerships were right on the mark. Should I be feeling scammed by now, as people's criticisms and first-priority emphasis on marketing seem to insist? All I feel like is a satisfied customer. Someone help me out, here.

First off I actually have a Procede in my car so in no way am I just bashing Vishnu. Here is the issue I have. Anyone can spout off some numbers, just like in the original post. There is no evidence to back any of the numbers up in a real world application, where are the pressure logs? Does the pump work? SURE it does, I absolutely believe that anyone that has gotten this pump setup so far has nothing to complain about.

But, a large portion of the the post was bashing and blatantly saying his setup is superior to any other option available. At 3 times the price it better be. If the claim is valid and true then comparison logs of multiple pump setups of fuel pressure will prove it

It is a completely reasonable for consumers to expect real unbiased data to backup any claims. The reason he doesn't provide any is because he doesn't have to. It seems whatever he says is simply taken as fact.

[Ænema]

I'd also like to see a datalog. Not for any particular reason or to prove/disprove anything, i just like to see what people are doing and how it's working.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

First off I actually have a Procede in my car so in no way am I just bashing Vishnu. Here is the issue I have. Anyone can spout off some numbers, just like in the original post. There is no evidence to back any of the numbers up in a real world application, where are the pressure logs? Does the pump work? SURE it does, I absolutely believe that anyone that has gotten this pump setup so far has nothing to complain about.

But, a large portion of the the post was bashing and blatantly saying his setup is superior to any other option available. At 3 times the price it better be. If the claim is valid and true then comparison logs of multiple pump setups of fuel pressure will prove it

It is a completely reasonable for consumers to expect real unbiased data to backup any claims. The reason he doesn't provide any is because he doesn't have to. It seems whatever he says is simply taken as fact.

It should be noted that my post was not directed specifically at you. Just FYI, the bolded part of your past is an assumption on his intent. You do not know his reasons. I do not know his reasons. Let's keep things in the realm of what is known. Far less flaming on both sides will occur this way.

Which parts of his posts bother you? Where does he say that his option is more superior to any other option? Could you quote specific parts? I don't see any bashing, either. What do you consider to be bashing?

What data do you specifically want to see that you would deem to be satisfactory? When do you want this data? These kinds of requirements might clear things up and make for a much easier thread for everyone.

[SassyMcSass]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

As someone who "gave in" to the marketing and brought one of Shiv's systems, I find these pervasive, multi-thread arguments to be just odd. I read them over and over and the counterarguments seem to stem from theory and anecdotes, both of which might be valid in their own right, but do little to invalidate what Shiv is doing. I got exactly what I paid for, and the problems I face are exactly the problems Shiv outlined to me ahead of time. It was through dyno testing that I witnessed, first-hand, the effects of 1: an aging fuel pump running 100% E85, 2: the occasional hiccup of a brand new fuel pump running E85 (not as bad as the old one), and 3: the effects of the torque on the clutch.

I will likely be getting this fuel pump set up, as well, since my fuel pumps cannot keep up with the E85 flow. Additionally, I would like my fuel pump system to last much longer, and my LPFP is already being overstressed with the extra flow. I will likely have the fuel pump install done with the clutch job, once I get my hands on an aftermarket clutch to get an idea of driving feel.

I've sent my car to FFTEC a couple of times, and, I don't know. Even Shiv's suggestions for mod-friendly dealerships were right on the mark. Should I be feeling scammed by now, as people's criticisms and first-priority emphasis on marketing seem to insist? All I feel like is a satisfied customer. Someone help me out, here.

My $.02 on this is Shiv has presented his solution as capable and cars are running that solution showing it works. Others have presented their solutions as capable and cars are running those solutions showing they also work. Where Shiv goes off the rails is when he starts to claim his solution which just so happens to cost a lot more is vastly superior and that other solutions are inherently flawed and "won't work". Making bold statements like without plenty of supporting data erode away at your credability.

[vasillalov]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

But, a large portion of the the post was bashing and blatantly saying his setup is superior to any other option available. At 3 times the price it better be. If the claim is valid and true then comparison logs of multiple pump setups of fuel pressure will prove it

It is a completely reasonable for consumers to expect real unbiased data to backup any claims. The reason he doesn't provide any is because he doesn't have to. It seems whatever he says is simply taken as fact.

Careful my friend! You are using too much logic and too much sense for this forum! You will feel the ban hammer hit hard. Be prepared!

[Wedge1967]

Wow this thread went to shit. For those still in question as to why FFTEC's pump solution works, do everyone a favor and .... Lot's of platforms are using parallel or series pumps to overcome fulling demands. Just so happens series on this platform works the best and doesn't require any special connections or adapters that could cause back pressure issues like other solutions we have seen recently.

Just because you have this preconceived notion about Shiv and Vishnu doesn't mean that everything they market turns out to be crap just because you want it to be.

So the situation is simple, at peak demand a single or stock pump can't maintain the Flow Rat required for 100% e85 or high output upgraded turbos. The diagram tells the story.



So, for those who still don't believe, don't buy it. Me and everyone else who understands this technology could give a flying F'k less if you don't agree. I'm personally running booster and have been sense November. I haven't had any issues running 100% e85 like I had prior. So as far as I'm concerned this solution it fixed my issues.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

My $.02 on this is Shiv has presented his solution as capable and cars are running that solution showing it works. Others have presented their solutions as capable and cars are running those solutions showing they also work. Where Shiv goes off the rails is when he starts to claim his solution which just so happens to cost a lot more is vastly superior and that other solutions are inherently flawed and "won't work". Making bold statements like without plenty of supporting data erode away at your credability.

Where does he say that his solution is vastly superior? Could you provide a quote?

I'm sure there are many good solutions out there, as well! In fact, I've been eyeing RB turbos for quite some time. I like the torque and quick spool up of the smaller turbos, and having, generally, the same components afterwards. To each their own! The big singles are probably too rich for my blood. However, I do not anticipate having a turbo upgrade for many years. Pump and clutch? Heck yeah.

[rismo]

What about, if you think the info is not clear and so you do not buy it?

If Vishnu then thinks that they do not sell enough because of the lack of info, they migth choose to provide more info to increase their sales. ABC of freemarket.

You do not need to buy this product.... as far as I understood :-)

[BigBoosting]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

Where does he say that his solution is vastly superior? Could you provide a quote?

Oh come one, really? He has said this a dozen or more times in multiple thread. His original post in this thread has a few passive aggressive comments as well.

[jippii ensio]

I haven't seen any customer complaints about it either. Good product.

[SassyMcSass]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

Where does he say that his solution is vastly superior? Could you provide a quote?

Here are a couple direct quotes.

Originally Posted by Shiv@Vishnu

What you are proposing to the public as a fuel pump upgrade is inherently flawed as you will realize soon. Just like you realized when i told you about your venturi jet omission. Giving a parts list and "how to" is just irresponsible. I'm not being negative. I'm being factual. You can interpret my comments any way you want. But at the end of the day, fuel system upgrades should be left to those who actually understand concept and design. Or else it's just dangerous. There are many people on the forum that will follow whatever directions you put out. Regardless of stated caveats. You know this. But you still proceed on your merry way. That is irresponsible.

Shiv

Originally Posted by Shiv@Vishnu

Their concept is flawed.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by BigBoosting

Oh come one, really? He has said this a dozen or more times in multiple thread. His original post in this thread has a few passive aggressive comments as well.

Where?

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

Here are a couple direct quotes.

Neither of which are statements of vast superiority, as you claimed. Let's keep things in the realm of reality without exaggerating what people have said. While I understand that you might have issues with the responses themselves, inflating your claims just causes unnecessary tension.

[jippii ensio]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

Here are a couple direct quotes.

All this depends on the application. If we are talking about the biggest Vishnu single with a lot of boost needing a lot of fuel, then two pumps should push more fuel than one. However, the one pump upgrade is not really flawed for those who don't need a huge increase in the flow.

[SassyMcSass]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

Neither of which are statements of vast superiority, as you claimed. Let's keep things in the realm of reality without exaggerating what people have said. While I understand that you might have issues with the responses themselves, inflating your claims just causes unnecessary tension.

I strongly disagree. I think the previous rhetoric some of which I included in the quote above along with the posts in this thread are an attempt to paint the picture that the FFTEC fuel solution is vastly superior to the alternatives.

I also conceed these are paid advertisments and they can structure them however they'd like. My point was the mannor in which they have advertised this fuel solution, heavy on the rhetoric, light on the data, is hurting their credability. To put it another way somewhere along the line I stopped looking to Vishnu and FFTEC as a technical resource who happen to represent products and started looking to them as salespeople who happen to sometimes offer technical insight.

[E3r2E9r]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

I strongly disagree. I think the previous rhetoric some of which I included in the quote above along with the posts in this thread are an attempt to paint the picture that the FFTEC fuel solution is vastly superior to the alternatives.

I also conceed these are paid advertisments and they can structure them however they'd like. My point was the mannor in which they have advertised this fuel solution, heavy on the rhetoric, light on the data, is hurting their credability. To put it another way somewhere along the line I stopped looking to Vishnu and FFTEC as a technical resource who happen to represent products and started looking to them as salespeople who happen to sometimes offer technical insight.

Cool story. You dont like their posts so you wont buy their stuff now. Great. You can stop trolling threads now.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

I strongly disagree. I think the previous rhetoric some of which I included in the quote above along with the posts in this thread are an attempt to paint the picture that the FFTEC fuel solution is vastly superior to the alternatives.

That's you making an assumption on his intent. I did not get that out of the post, at all. Vastly superior? That is, at the very least, up to interpretation and not worth airing out dirty laundry over.

Furthermore, where is your first quote from? I do not see your first quote in this thread at all. How is it relevant to what is going on in this thread? I, myself, am now guilty of assumptions, as I had assumed that you were actually quoting something Shiv said in this thread.

I also conceed these are paid advertisments and they can structure them however they'd like. My point was the mannor in which they have advertised this fuel solution, heavy on the rhetoric, light on the data, is hurting their credability. To put it another way somewhere along the line I stopped looking to Vishnu and FFTEC as a technical resource who happen to represent products and started looking to them as salespeople who happen to sometimes offer technical insight.

That's good for you. So, why are you in this thread? To warn others? What's your intent?

[SassyMcSass]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

That's you making an assumption on his intent. I did not get that out of the post, at all. Vastly superior? That is, at the very least, up to interpretation and not worth airing out dirty laundry over.

Furthermore, where is your first quote from? I do not see your first quote in this thread at all. How is it relevant to what is going on in this thread? I, myself, am now guilty of assumptions, as I had assumed that you were actually quoting something Shiv said in this thread.

That's good for you. So, why are you in this thread? To warn others? What's your intent?

So your position is that stating other alternatives "won't work" and are "inherently flawed" combined with unsupported flow numbers showing their fuel pump flows "24% more", etc, are not intended to persuade would be consumers their product is "vastly superior"?

The quotes are from a fuel pump discussion thread on this forum. If you search the text of his quote in this section you can locate the thread. My observations of the marketing approach come from reviewing multiple threads. This specific thread appears to be Vishnu's "response" to some other related thread. I think you are being a bit naive to assume each thread is completely independent and that statements made in one thread are invalid in another related thread.

As to why I am posting in this thread. Why are you posting in this thread? Is a good back story a prerequisite to state your opinion on the Internet? I am interested in N54 fuel system upgrades and came here looking for hard data. Instead I found hard rhetoric and propaganda and now I'm voicing my displeasure over it.

[Ferruccio]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

So your position is that stating other alternatives "won't work" and are "inherently flawed" combined with unsupported flow numbers showing their fuel pump flows "24% more", etc, are not intended to persuade would be consumers their product is "vastly superior"?

No. I did not make a proclamation of his intent. You did that. I am telling you that you do not have enough information to make a proclamation. I did not get enough out of that quote to make any sort of statement of his intent to the level that you did.

The quotes are from a fuel pump discussion thread on this forum. If you search the text of his quote in this section you can locate the thread. My observations of the marketing approach come from reviewing multiple threads. This specific thread appears to be Vishnu's "response" to some other related thread. I think you are being a bit naive to assume each thread is completely independent and that statements made in one thread are invalid in another related thread.

The problem with this is that you are quoting out of context. This is why forum etiquette typically keeps entire discussions within a thread, to keep things from getting messy, like what you're doing.

As to why I am posting in this thread. Why are you posting in this thread? Is a good back story a prerequisite to state your opinion on the Internet? I am interested in N54 fuel system upgrades and came here looking for hard data. Instead I found hard rhetoric and propaganda and now I'm voicing my displeasure over it.

I am posting in this thread because I am likely getting the product. That's what I said on my first post in this thread. Your criticisms, thus far, have been vague, and seem to amount to "Shiv trying to sell a product." Well, yeah. That's the point of this thread. You should expect inherent bias in data from someone who's selling a product. I do not see what is so new about this. If you expect unbiased data from someone selling a product, you're fooling yourself. Instead of proclaiming what humanity has historically done when selling a product, a simple "I would love to see (X Y Z figures) to get further information" would suffice. Or, you could do what I did, and wait for customer reviews of the product to come out. :P

[SassyMcSass]

Originally Posted by Ferruccio

I am posting in this thread because I am likely getting the product. That's what I said on my first post in this thread. Your criticisms, thus far, have been vague, and seem to amount to "Shiv trying to sell a product." Well, yeah. That's the point of this thread. You should expect inherent bias in data from someone who's selling a product. I do not see what is so new about this. If you expect unbiased data from someone selling a product, you're fooling yourself. Instead of proclaiming what humanity has historically done when selling a product, a simple "I would love to see (X Y Z figures) to get further information" would suffice. Or, you could do what I did, and wait for customer reviews of the product to come out. :P

So, the essence of your complaint with my posts is that I am wasting valuable Internet space by stating the obvious. Things like this is clearly a biased marketing thread and that no real data has been presented. Guilty as charged I suppose.

I'm on the fence about the fuel upgrade as well so it seems we are in the same boat. Did you know that the only other fuel upgrades out are inherently flawed, won't work, and that this solution flows 25% more than they do anyway?

[ign335i]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

So, the essence of your complaint with my posts is that I am wasting valuable Internet space by stating the obvious. Things like this is clearly a biased marketing thread and that no real data has been presented. Guilty as charged I suppose.

I'm on the fence about the fuel upgrade as well so it seems we are in the same boat. Did you know that the only other fuel upgrades out are inherently flawed, won't work, and that this solution flows 25% more than they do anyway?

You're not going to find the technical information/answers in this forum. If you want to get to the bottom of this try some of the other forums. The two setups have been discussed ad nauseam. Yes, your concerns are not unfounded in. I would go with the DIY E85 solution, it has been proven to max the HPFP out and costs 1/3 the price.

[Jeff@TopGearSolutions]

Originally Posted by SassyMcSass

So your position is that stating other alternatives "won't work" and are "inherently flawed" combined with unsupported flow numbers showing their fuel pump flows "24% more", etc, are not intended to persuade would be consumers their product is "vastly superior"?

The quotes are from a fuel pump discussion thread on this forum. If you search the text of his quote in this section you can locate the thread. My observations of the marketing approach come from reviewing multiple threads. This specific thread appears to be Vishnu's "response" to some other related thread. I think you are being a bit naive to assume each thread is completely independent and that statements made in one thread are invalid in another related thread.

As to why I am posting in this thread. Why are you posting in this thread? Is a good back story a prerequisite to state your opinion on the Internet? I am interested in N54 fuel system upgrades and came here looking for hard data. Instead I found hard rhetoric and propaganda and now I'm voicing my displeasure over it.

If you want to help people in here by disproving anything, please supply your own data or credible 3rd party data. Opinions and assumptions only derail threads. Especially those assumptions and opinions that are founded from trying to read between the lines of context.

If your goal is finding info on N54 fuel system upgrades, then you need to get your hands dirty if you cannot trust the information and options supplied. I mentioned in this thread previously and i'll say it again, if it is such a conspiracy about the information supplied, dont buy it.

[Dmacc]

Good lord