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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Vargas Turbo Stage 2 / 3 update



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      01-03-2013, 08:23 AM   #133
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Well if that is all you mean by a "kit" then sure, sub 5k kits are going to be out there, sooner the better. The basic FFTEC/V is $6.8k with more stuff. Get a chinese knock-off of their manifold and a cheaper turbo and decontent some and you're under 5k easy.

But in reality you need at least a basic tune, bigger IC, integrated meth system, exhaust, etc etc. before you even touch the rest of the car outside of the engine compartment.

When I think "kit" it means everything needed to covert stocker inside the EC up to where the downpipes meet stock exhaust, to functional use of extra air capacity without blowing up. No clutch or driveline mods. The e36 turbo kit I posted above is such a kit. A turbo, BOV, and manifold is not a kit. Likewise RB's are not a kit, neither are the coming stage 2/3 Vargas a kit. They are upgrades to one (major) component of an existing system. Upgrades I hope would definitely come in well under 5k. Two really big turbos and a well executed manifold, without fueling, IC, etc. who knows.

Two bigger turbos for 911 996TT are not really that expensive, for example. It's all the extra stuff to keep your $$$ german motor from slagging that racks up the major coin.
The e36 kit you posted is a full kit because the car is N/A, the expectation being the customer doesn't already have an intercooler or tune, meth etc. Since the N54 is turbocharged there is a large community that already has supporting mods to make basic kits like the FSR motorsports attractive, or any kit consisting of only a manifold, turbo, WG and downpipe.
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      01-03-2013, 08:27 AM   #134
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Well if that is all you mean by a "kit" then sure, sub 5k kits are going to be out there, sooner the better. The basic FFTEC/V is $6.8k with more stuff. Get a chinese knock-off of their manifold and a cheaper turbo and decontent some and you're under 5k easy.

But in reality you need at least a basic tune, bigger IC, integrated meth system, exhaust, etc etc. before you even touch the rest of the car outside of the engine compartment.

When I think "kit" it means everything needed to covert stocker inside the EC up to where the downpipes meet stock exhaust, to functional use of extra air capacity without blowing up. No clutch or driveline mods. The e36 turbo kit I posted above is such a kit. A turbo, BOV, and manifold is not a kit. Likewise RB's are not a kit, neither are the coming stage 2/3 Vargas a kit. They are upgrades to one (major) component of an existing system. Upgrades I hope would definitely come in well under 5k. Two really big turbos and a well executed manifold, without fueling, IC, etc. who knows.

Two bigger turbos for 911 996TT are not really that expensive, for example. It's all the extra stuff to keep your $$$ german motor from slagging that racks up the major coin.
The turbo in the FFTEC kit is $800-1200 depending in options, so no cheaper turbo needed.

I too look fwd to a similar $3k, 700-900whp kit like the one above. I mean, the manifold (and R&D to get it all to fit) and the tuning is the jewel.

Can't wait to Vargas stage 2&3.
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      01-03-2013, 08:35 AM   #135
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlineryder View Post
The e36 kit you posted is a full kit because the car is N/A, the expectation being the customer doesn't already have an intercooler or tune, meth etc. Since the N54 is turbocharged there is a large community that already has supporting mods to make basic kits like the FSR motorsports attractive, or any kit consisting of only a manifold, turbo, WG and downpipe.
Yes I understand that, which is why I wanted to distinguish upgrades and kits. With the exception of the head gasket, the e36 kit is no different than a full kit for a big single requiring upgrades to all the stock pieces (IC, BOV's, DP's, etc.). This is just semantics but if people want to bitch and moan about cost of present kits it is important to compare apples to apples.
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      01-03-2013, 08:48 AM   #136
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Yes I understand that, which is why I wanted to distinguish upgrades and kits. With the exception of the head gasket, the e36 kit is no different than a full kit for a big single requiring upgrades to all the stock pieces (IC, BOV's, DP's, etc.). This is just semantics but if people want to bitch and moan about cost of present kits it is important to compare apples to apples.
I agree, the total cost for the end product could be in the same price range. It goes without saying that having more 'upgrade' and 'kit' options is good for the community.
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      01-03-2013, 09:07 AM   #137
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Quote:
Originally Posted by redlineryder View Post
It goes without saying that having more 'upgrade' and 'kit' options is good for the community.
Definitely. I would add, to support Carl's earlier point, that the cost for such upgrades/kits will go down over time as both the cost of the car lowers AND as the upper envelope of performance is pushed. For example as nice as 650WHP & barely into 10 sec 1/4's is, it is lame compared to supras GTR's and even tired old e36's pushing 1200WHP and beyond.

I guarantee you once folks open up the N54 and figure out how to get way past 1000WHP (and maybe into the 9's or even 8's) no one will pay over 10k for a measly 650WHP full kit.
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      01-03-2013, 10:15 AM   #138
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Once we can separate the hardware of the turbo kit (manifold, oil/water lines, turbo, intake pipe(s), wastegate, recirc + downpipe to stock DP exit locations) from the tune/fuel/other stuff neededthen we can start to commoditize the parts needed and get the prices down.

Has anybody tried to buy a hardware-only kit from FFTEC?

When Cobb can tune a single or twin turbo kit with external wastegates, then we will be in business.
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      01-03-2013, 10:16 AM   #139
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Originally Posted by The Ghost View Post
Nice i stand corrected..
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      01-03-2013, 11:13 AM   #140
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
Well if that is all you mean by a "kit" then sure, sub 5k kits are going to be out there, sooner the better. The basic FFTEC/V is $6.8k with more stuff. Get a chinese knock-off of their manifold and a cheaper turbo and decontent some and you're under 5k easy.

But in reality you need at least a basic tune, bigger IC, integrated meth system, exhaust, etc etc. before you even touch the rest of the car outside of the engine compartment.

When I think "kit" it means everything needed to covert stocker inside the EC up to where the downpipes meet stock exhaust, to functional use of extra air capacity without blowing up. No clutch or driveline mods. The e36 turbo kit I posted above is such a kit. A turbo, BOV, and manifold is not a kit. Likewise RB's are not a kit, neither are the coming stage 2/3 Vargas a kit. They are upgrades to one (major) component of an existing system. Upgrades I hope would definitely come in well under 5k. Two really big turbos and a well executed manifold, without fueling, IC, etc. who knows.

Two bigger turbos for 911 996TT are not really that expensive, for example. It's all the extra stuff to keep your $$$ german motor from slagging that racks up the major coin.
Completely disagree with your saying our stage 3 is not a kit. Our stage 3 is 100% a kit. 2 GT turbos, manifolds, downpipes, charge piping, all oil and water lines, intake piping / air filters, modified water piper, all hardware for installation and assembly. YES this is a kit, stage 2 not a kit. Bottom line and FFTEC, etc knows this too. If you are in the market for a single or our stage 3 kit. You are 99% already FBO with FMIC, and the rest. This is why we do not offer it. Keeps the price down and makes more sense.
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      01-03-2013, 11:29 AM   #141
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*sigh* I really don't care what people call it as long as it is clear what is included, and then when comparisons are made one can compare apples to apples.

edit: and then some effort is made to state what else is needed as supporting mods to run properly. Not that I agree with this, but on the "other" board some guy was whining about the FFTEC/Vishnu "kit" not having a SMFW & clutch with it. I mean come on.

Last edited by ajsalida; 01-03-2013 at 11:35 AM.
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      01-03-2013, 11:47 AM   #142
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ajsalida View Post
*sigh* I really don't care what people call it as long as it is clear what is included, and then when comparisons are made one can compare apples to apples.

edit: and then some effort is made to state what else is needed as supporting mods to run properly. Not that I agree with this, but on the "other" board some guy was whining about the FFTEC/Vishnu "kit" not having a SMFW & clutch with it. I mean come on.
Bottom line stating our stage 3 is not a kit is not a true statement. Stage 2 or any upgraded hybrid def not a kit. I'm sure you will pardon me for trying to make this clear after your statement. No ill intentions on either part.
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      01-03-2013, 12:34 PM   #143
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Completely disagree with your saying our stage 3 is not a kit. Our stage 3 is 100% a kit. 2 GT turbos, manifolds, downpipes, charge piping, all oil and water lines, intake piping / air filters, modified water piper, all hardware for installation and assembly. YES this is a kit, stage 2 not a kit. Bottom line and FFTEC, etc knows this too. If you are in the market for a single or our stage 3 kit. You are 99% already FBO with FMIC, and the rest. This is why we do not offer it. Keeps the price down and makes more sense.
agreed, I waited until everything was in place before upgrading the tubs....should have one supension to lol!! You modified the water pipe? That's Impressive because I hate the POS lol!! Do you have a pic of it!!? I would love tossed this.

I agree, thisis a kit 100%
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      01-03-2013, 12:43 PM   #144
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are people really arguing what is or is-not a "kit"?
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      01-03-2013, 12:51 PM   #145
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Bottom line stating our stage 3 is not a kit is not a true statement. Stage 2 or any upgraded hybrid def not a kit. I'm sure you will pardon me for trying to make this clear after your statement. No ill intentions on either part.
No that is fine, I appreciate the clarity. Will be in the market for an upgrade/kit later this year and very interested in all the various offerings.
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      01-03-2013, 12:56 PM   #146
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Vargasturbotech View Post
Bottom line stating our stage 3 is not a kit is not a true statement. Stage 2 or any upgraded hybrid def not a kit. I'm sure you will pardon me for trying to make this clear after your statement. No ill intentions on either part.
Tony will the stage 3 wastegates be controllable by the OEM boost control system? (i.e. Cobb)
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      01-03-2013, 01:16 PM   #147
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Originally Posted by The Ghost View Post
this would sell like sooooo fast if it was for the n54....whoever makes this will have a nice load of money
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      01-03-2013, 01:18 PM   #148
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Originally Posted by jpsimon View Post
are people really arguing what is or is-not a "kit"?
It was -19 deg F at my house this AM, what else am I gonna do?
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      01-03-2013, 01:35 PM   #149
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Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
Tony will the stage 3 wastegates be controllable by the OEM boost control system? (i.e. Cobb)
yes
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      01-03-2013, 02:53 PM   #150
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
agreed, I waited until everything was in place before upgrading the tubs....should have one supension to lol!! You modified the water pipe? That's Impressive because I hate the POS lol!! Do you have a pic of it!!? I would love tossed this.

I agree, thisis a kit 100%
Pipe is not finished yet. Finishing up the charge piping this week, then the final coolant pipe routing and button up a few things and install. Its so much harder to get things done on it now that we are back after the holidays. I get pulled in 20 directions. But I will work late all this week to get it done so I can focus on stage 2 when the parts arrive.
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      01-03-2013, 03:15 PM   #151
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This is looking amazing! Thanks for all your dedication and putting up with the "haters". Some of us greatly appreciate your innovation and hard work. Anyone can talk but you're the only one actually putting it into action. I can't wait to see the finished results.
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      01-03-2013, 07:49 PM   #152
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Jeez people... Just wait until the kits are out. And even then we won't know the full tuning capabilities of these turbos compared to the RBs. Keep going Tony!!!
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      01-04-2013, 12:33 PM   #153
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Keep up the good work. This is interesting.

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      01-04-2013, 01:32 PM   #154
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One thing I noticed about the big single is that the turbo can still breathe at high RPM, pushing peak HP up into the 7K rpm range (I believe). Is there any consensus on whether the stage 2 or stage 3 kits will be able to do the same?
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