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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > ETS 5 vs VRSF: FMIC



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      12-27-2012, 12:17 AM   #1
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ETS 5 vs VRSF: FMIC

Ok. Let me first make this clear. This is not another "E90Post which FMIC should I buy" thread.

I would like owners with both products to chime in with IAT logs, pressure drop data, as well as logs of sustained pulls showing WGDC's, IAT, and anything else that can show the difference between these two options. Any opinions on why you chose what you did is also appreciated. Thank you guys.

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      12-27-2012, 12:19 AM   #2
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You know what i think..... :]
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      12-27-2012, 12:25 AM   #3
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Very interested to see the results. Here's my review with a bunch of logs and some iat graphs. I'll try to take some more when I get a chance. Keep in mind for the iat graphs the ambient temps were different and so were the oil temps when the logs were taken so idk how accurate they are...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=756178
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      12-27-2012, 12:36 AM   #4
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Which VRSF? 5 or 7?
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      12-27-2012, 12:38 AM   #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MrRetep View Post
Which VRSF? 5 or 7?
Idk if you're talking about mine but if you are its the 7
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      12-27-2012, 12:39 AM   #6
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The one on the market. 7"
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      12-27-2012, 12:39 AM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by psmitty95 View Post
Idk if you're talking about mine but if you are its the 7
It was directed at OP, but I think its good that people with the VRSF's say whether they have the 7 inch or the 5 inch. otherwise it will become a mess.
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      12-27-2012, 12:42 AM   #8
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I'm packing 7"

And you should see my intercooler.

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      12-27-2012, 01:40 AM   #9
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To be honest, it's impossible to just take datalogs and try to compare IATs from one log to another.

Any of the available aftermarket FMIC options are a vast improvement over the OEM parts. It all comes down to price and whether you want to do some trimming.
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      12-27-2012, 12:13 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ænema View Post
To be honest, it's impossible to just take datalogs and try to compare IATs from one log to another.

Any of the available aftermarket FMIC options are a vast improvement over the OEM parts. It all comes down to price and whether you want to do some trimming.
this.. fmic for our cars are vastly better than the oem units so you can't go wrong with which one you get. It's all preference.

But, just go with VRSF if you're on a budget and don't mind some trimming. The 5" ETS doesn't require trimming so if ease of install is what you're looking for then go with that.

I have VRSF 7" and have no complaints.. The trimming isn't even that big of a deal.
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      12-27-2012, 12:44 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Deemo View Post
this.. fmic for our cars are vastly better than the oem units so you can't go wrong with which one you get. It's all preference.

But, just go with VRSF if you're on a budget and don't mind some trimming. The 5" ETS doesn't require trimming so if ease of install is what you're looking for then go with that.

I have VRSF 7" and have no complaints.. The trimming isn't even that big of a deal.
+1 the trimming isn't something people should get super hung up on, as long as you/installer is careful, it can be done in a clean manner that doesn't involve hacking up the entire shroud. I've had my car in for warranty work several times w/the FMIC, the dealer has never said a word, and they've worked on the downpipes...so it's not like the intercooler is hidden. Trimming is no biggie.
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      12-27-2012, 12:59 PM   #12
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Even though every aftermarket FMIC is a huge improvement over the OEM when it comes to IATs, they are all not equal when it comes to pressure drop and increased/decreased turbo lag. Based on my searches, I think I'm getting a Helix FMIC in the spring.
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      12-27-2012, 12:59 PM   #13
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Wouldn't it make more sense to compare apples to apples, 7inch to 7inch.

This is like comparing the performance of a 2.5inch exhaust VS a 3inch.

There are other things besides the size of course, like core, end tanks, and plumbing.

One should expect more but negligible pressure drop on the 7inch, but it will have less tendency to heat soak compared to a 5inch.

If you want the least tendency to heat soak and ok with trimming go with a 7inch intercooler. If you want a system that performs well and installs without trimming go with a 5inch.
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      12-27-2012, 01:04 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
+1 the trimming isn't something people should get super hung up on, as long as you/installer is careful, it can be done in a clean manner that doesn't involve hacking up the entire shroud. I've had my car in for warranty work several times w/the FMIC, the dealer has never said a word, and they've worked on the downpipes...so it's not like the intercooler is hidden. Trimming is no biggie.
Same here. Dealer definitely knows I have a 7" intercooler in there and that the shroud is trimmed and they didn't seem to care one bit..
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      12-27-2012, 01:34 PM   #15
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Went with the 4 inch CXRacing IC aka BTIC and couldn't b happier.

Plus it was around $550 installed.
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      12-27-2012, 01:49 PM   #16
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I've tried both the ets5 and currently run the ets7 and it works great. Go with the vrsf7. Trimming is not that bad.
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      12-27-2012, 02:55 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ihc95 View Post
Even though every aftermarket FMIC is a huge improvement over the OEM when it comes to IATs, they are all not equal when it comes to pressure drop and increased/decreased turbo lag. Based on my searches, I think I'm getting a Helix FMIC in the spring.
+1, solid choice.

If you want to run meth, you should run a 5" FMIC that has low pressure drops.

If you're gonna stay with Stock/RB/Vargas Stg 2s Turbos, then a 5" FMIC will be perfect. You'll have minimum trimming, minimum pressure drops & completely fine IAT reduction for street application. A 5" FMIC obviously will be lighter than a 7".

If you're gonna go Single Turbo/Vargas Stg 3s, then a 7" FMIC makes a lot more sense for that kind of application.


If people suggest buy X FMIC because it's cheap, you're an idiot -- These aren't DPs where it's just some bent metal. You'll also feel really stupid if you listen to people from the forums only to get an unproven FMIC when there is an overwhelming amount of established options that have data posted on this forum.
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      12-27-2012, 03:51 PM   #18
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question is: do you really push your car hard enough to need a 7" core....or do you live in hot weather or higher altitudes where you are doing fast mountain passes

correct me if i am wrong, if a certain brand yields you an extra 5hp from better flow or whatever reason - is it really worth double the price of others??? in city daily drive, all are better than OEM.
3"-5" cores are best for fast spool or drag race scenario
7" looses a bit of spool, but withstands heat soak the most - ideal for hot temp or track use
i live in bc, canada and am using 7" vrsf. even though the temp in summer is not too hot(80ish), we have a lot of high altitude mountain passes.
after an hour of driving around with my friend ( he has AA race intercooler) , IAT started going up during hard pulls on uphill sections..compared to mine, his IAT were higher by roughly 10 degree.
he spent 1400 new for his AA intercooler when they first came out. i spent about 1/3 of that and in this scenario i had better IAT. but he beats me on throttle response

pick and choose your poison my friend. they all have their own + and -
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      12-27-2012, 04:52 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
+1, solid choice.

If you want to run meth, you should run a 5" FMIC that has low pressure drops.

If you're gonna stay with Stock/RB/Vargas Stg 2s Turbos, then a 5" FMIC will be perfect. You'll have minimum trimming, minimum pressure drops & completely fine IAT reduction for street application. A 5" FMIC obviously will be lighter than a 7".

If you're gonna go Single Turbo/Vargas Stg 3s, then a 7" FMIC makes a lot more sense for that kind of application.


If people suggest buy X FMIC because it's cheap, you're an idiot -- These aren't DPs where it's just some bent metal. You'll also feel really stupid if you listen to people from the forums only to get an unproven FMIC when there is an overwhelming amount of established options that have data posted on this forum.
Above is very true, thankfully all the FMICs mentioned in the thread have data showing improvement over stock.
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      12-27-2012, 06:10 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by longliven54 View Post
question is: do you really push your car hard enough to need a 7" core....or do you live in hot weather or higher altitudes where you are doing fast mountain passes

correct me if i am wrong, if a certain brand yields you an extra 5hp from better flow or whatever reason - is it really worth double the price of others??? in city daily drive, all are better than OEM.
3"-5" cores are best for fast spool or drag race scenario
7" looses a bit of spool, but withstands heat soak the most - ideal for hot temp or track use
i live in bc, canada and am using 7" vrsf. even though the temp in summer is not too hot(80ish), we have a lot of high altitude mountain passes.
after an hour of driving around with my friend ( he has AA race intercooler) , IAT started going up during hard pulls on uphill sections..compared to mine, his IAT were higher by roughly 10 degree.
he spent 1400 new for his AA intercooler when they first came out. i spent about 1/3 of that and in this scenario i had better IAT. but he beats me on throttle response

pick and choose your poison my friend. they all have their own + and -
Wow i'm surprised it outperformed the AA, that's awesome . Like you the summer weather up here doesn't get to bad (80 most of the time maybe 90-100 sometimes) but I went with the 7 cause it was out at the time and wanted no heatsoak. So far i've been extremely happy with the VRSF and have no regrets
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      12-27-2012, 07:05 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by benzy89 View Post
+1, solid choice.

If you want to run meth, you should run a 5" FMIC that has low pressure drops.

If you're gonna stay with Stock/RB/Vargas Stg 2s Turbos, then a 5" FMIC will be perfect. You'll have minimum trimming, minimum pressure drops & completely fine IAT reduction for street application. A 5" FMIC obviously will be lighter than a 7".

If you're gonna go Single Turbo/Vargas Stg 3s, then a 7" FMIC makes a lot more sense for that kind of application.


If people suggest buy X FMIC because it's cheap, you're an idiot -- These aren't DPs where it's just some bent metal. You'll also feel really stupid if you listen to people from the forums only to get an unproven FMIC when there is an overwhelming amount of established options that have data posted on this forum.
couldn't of said it better myself
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      12-27-2012, 07:57 PM   #22
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I'm sure Michael @ ETS would agree that it's not fair to compare a 7" to a 5" and I wouldn't feel right about it either.

We will have our 5" available by late January as well as the 7" kits that have been out of stock. Both of these will feature a revised, seamless end tank which should improve flow a bit

In order to properly compare an intercooler you have to eliminate as many variables as possible. This means you have to use the same car on the same day, same weather, same dyno or same part of the same road/track depending on your preference.

The most important factor comes down to who's doing the testing. Can anyone truly put 100% of their trust in a manufacturers biased testing when comparing a competitor's products?
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