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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Lean AFR, misfires and reduced power. Procede?



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      12-22-2012, 04:55 PM   #1
Drawn05
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Lean AFR, misfires and reduced power. Procede?

In April this year I had my car dyno'd with the following modifications:

- Procede V5 Rev 2
- N55 catless mid pipes
- HPF FMIC
- ER Charge pipe + Forge Diverter valves
- K&N drop in filter
- Fresh oil, plugs and coils.

It produced 268.7kw/360hp at the wheels with 7-29 autotuning map 2, with just under 15psi.

Name:  Dyno april 2012.jpg
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Since then I have added:

- AR Design catless DPs
- Mr5 Cold air intake

and lastly

- Procede V5 Rev3

The car was running well for about 2 months then started to misfire on WOT but wouldnt throw any codes. I had the car dyno'd again a few days ago and it is making less power than when it had stock down pipes??

Name:  Dyno - December 2012 Boost.jpg
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I switched back to the same 7_29 autotuning maps as used on the rev2 dyno and the boost was ok. The AFRs though are another story.....as you can see.

Name:  Dyno - December 2012 AFR.jpg
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I have tried resetting the procede and the adaptations but nothing seems to help. I have also got a Cobb and have run some Cobb maps whilst the procede was in bypass and the misfires remain.

I am thinking of reloading the firmware/maps/reset one last time then maybe looking at removing the unit to see if the problems persists. I am rather puzzled why such audible misfires throw no codes??? Could it be the O2 sensors reversed?

Any help appreciated!!!
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      12-22-2012, 04:57 PM   #2
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Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
Could it be the O2 sensors reversed?

Any help appreciated!!!
If the O2 sensors were reversed the car would run so badly it'd barely run. It will almost die even at idle.
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      12-22-2012, 05:01 PM   #3
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      12-22-2012, 05:11 PM   #4
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Is your can clear ON?
Yes. I was planning on disabling it after I re-install the firmware in about 5 minutes.
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      12-22-2012, 05:14 PM   #5
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Originally Posted by DallasBoosted View Post
If the O2 sensors were reversed the car would run so badly it'd barely run. It will almost die even at idle.
I didnt think it would be this as the place that installed them is very professional and it would have been a freak occurrence. I have read a few people say that they had this issue and had similar symptoms to me.
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      12-22-2012, 05:23 PM   #6
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I didnt think it would be this as the place that installed them is very professional and it would have been a freak occurrence. I have read a few people say that they had this issue and had similar symptoms to me.
My o2's were reversed after my downpipe install and the car was almost undriveable. Just my .02.
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      12-22-2012, 08:13 PM   #7
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I re-installed the firmware and loaded the latest beta maps but still getting rough idle and misfires with WOT.

I am planning on replacing the following components over the next couple of months:

- Plugs
- Both MAP sensors
- Injectors
- HPFP

It might be overkill but these items are know to be causes of many issues and have reputations for failing anyway. I am still on my factory 05/09 HPFP so that will fail at some stage anyway. I am hoping that the coil packs are still ok from when I changed them 8 months ago. The reasoning for the MAP sensor replacement is based on the fact that my intake path is coated with oil, which cant do these sensors any good (I now have an OCC).

I have used a few bottles of octane booster in the past that apparently is well known to foul plugs so hopefully changing plugs might fix the misfires. But I have no idea where the ~30hp I am down has disappeared to?
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      12-22-2012, 08:35 PM   #8
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did you pull any logs from the PROcede? Why are you running map 2? Are you running race fuel or e85 with map 2? More than likely you're running too aggressive for the fuel your running.
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      12-22-2012, 08:49 PM   #9
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did you pull any logs from the PROcede? Why are you running map 2? Are you running race fuel or e85 with map 2? More than likely you're running too aggressive for the fuel your running.
I have no logs only dyno runs at this stage.

Isnt Map 2 for FBO cars? The fuel I use is 98RON which is about 94AKI. I even did a dyno run with a 50/50 MS109 mixture and 10_9 Map 2 and it made 230-240rwkw/308-320hp, but I dont have those dyno sheets.
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      12-22-2012, 10:11 PM   #10
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On the newer Procede maps, Map 2 is primarily used for users running Meth. When meth is enabled and the Procede is on Map 4, when meth flow reaches a certain flow level, it switches over to the more aggressive Map 2 settings. With the new maps, all you have to select is the stage map that corresponds to your mods and run Map 1 unless you are running meth.
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      12-22-2012, 10:17 PM   #11
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Originally Posted by jdbretz View Post
On the newer Procede maps, Map 2 is primarily used for users running Meth. When meth is enabled and the Procede is on Map 4, when meth flow reaches a certain flow level, it switches over to the more aggressive Map 2 settings. With the new maps, all you have to select is the stage map that corresponds to your mods and run Map 1 unless you are running meth.
I see. Though that doesnt explain the bad AFR and misfires as the 7_29 maps are only boosting to ~14.5psi.
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      12-22-2012, 10:38 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drawn05 View Post
I see. Though that doesnt explain the bad AFR and misfires as the 7_29 maps are only boosting to ~14.5psi.
To diagnose the misfires, turn off CAN Clear and drive the car in a manner to make it misfire. Check the code(s) and see which cylinder(s) is misfiring. Then first swap the misfiring cylinder's coil with another cylinder and see if the misfire follows it. If so, replace the bad coil, if not replace the plugs. If neither of those fix it, look into replacing the injector for the affected cylinder. If you go with injector replacement, be sure to have the new injectors coded.

The AFR reading on a dyno isn't all that helpful. There are too many variables. Take some logs with the Procede to confirm if there is an issue with your AFR.
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      12-22-2012, 10:50 PM   #13
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It also looks like the dyno was done in 3rd gear. Most people on here dyno in 4th so that may be effecting your results. The Procede is somewhat known to run lean on boost onset, but usually reaches targets shortly after. Your run could appear exaggerated because it was so short the AFRs don't appear to stabilize as quick as they would have had the run been in 4th gear and lasted longer.
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      12-23-2012, 12:59 PM   #14
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On pump gas without meth you probably won't boost much higher than 14 psi. I do recommend you switch to aggressive 9-10 and upgrade your firmware. With your mods, you can probably get by with running stage III, but only in map 1. You need to log to make sure things look good. If you have any issues drop back to stage II map 1. If you have a good methanol source, I would recommend getting PWM Methanol kit and run trunk mount tank only. This would allow you to run map 4 on stage II or III. You would pick up 30 to 40 whp doing this because you would be able to hit 17 to 18 psi and higher timing. Your car will tell you when you are pushing things too hard as you have found. It limps for a reason and is telling you something is wrong, so do your logs and we all can help you get things right, but without the logs it's hard to help because we are all just guessing what the issue could be.
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      12-24-2012, 03:23 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jdbretz View Post
It also looks like the dyno was done in 3rd gear. Most people on here dyno in 4th so that may be effecting your results. The Procede is somewhat known to run lean on boost onset, but usually reaches targets shortly after. Your run could appear exaggerated because it was so short the AFRs don't appear to stabilize as quick as they would have had the run been in 4th gear and lasted longer.
I can assure you that all the dyno runs I have posted were done in 4th gear. They do not extend to 7000rpm as there is not much point after peak power is reached.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wedge1967 View Post
On pump gas without meth you probably won't boost much higher than 14 psi. I do recommend you switch to aggressive 9-10 and upgrade your firmware. With your mods, you can probably get by with running stage III, but only in map 1. You need to log to make sure things look good. If you have any issues drop back to stage II map 1. If you have a good methanol source, I would recommend getting PWM Methanol kit and run trunk mount tank only. This would allow you to run map 4 on stage II or III. You would pick up 30 to 40 whp doing this because you would be able to hit 17 to 18 psi and higher timing. Your car will tell you when you are pushing things too hard as you have found. It limps for a reason and is telling you something is wrong, so do your logs and we all can help you get things right, but without the logs it's hard to help because we are all just guessing what the issue could be.
I have re-installed 111 firmware and running 9_10 stage 3/map 1 with CANclear off. Still getting audible misfires under full throttle but no codes except for:

2FCA = ?????
2FDA = ?????
29F4 = Catalytic Converter Conversion
29F5 = Catalytic Converter Conversion

Which I assume are due to the DPs. I have also set the autotuning to ON.

I need to get a USB extension cable before I can do some logs but I am still very confused why such audible misfires dont through any warning lights/codes? There is a corresponding reduction in boost/power that I would have thought the DME would have flagged as a issue to be rectified.

Anyway, thanks for your replies and have a merry Christmas!
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      12-24-2012, 07:24 PM   #16
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Looking at the speed listed in KPH on the dyno sheets, you were going roughly 164-168 kph before the dyno ended. That is roughly 102-104 mph and seems to be around the top of 3rd gear. Maybe the print out is wrong. Do you have any print outs in RPM instead of KPH?

The only thing I can find on the 2FCA/2FDA codes are someone posted they might be HPFP related. Possibly a precursor to it failing, but I counldn't find much info regarding them.

Once you get some logs, we will be able to hopefully give you some better advice. Merry Christmas!

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      12-26-2012, 11:08 PM   #17
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Attempted to log the issue. Still getting audible misfires at high rpms, which seems to coincide with fairly excessive boost??

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Name:  procede 2.jpg
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      12-27-2012, 12:42 AM   #18
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Tried Stage 2, map1 and the car is really unhappy. Not sure if the boost spike is accurate? Hope not.

Name:  procede stg2 #1.jpg
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      12-27-2012, 05:15 PM   #19
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Of the 3 logs you just sent me, only one (the first one) was usable. You are still getting connections drop outs during datalogs, so you may need to change the power management settings on your computer to prevent them. There is a thread about it on here if you search for it.

From the good log, you are definitely running out of fuel at boost onset and need to greatly increase your OL Fueling value. What do you have it set at right now in the Procede software? I would try a value of 95 and see if it improves. Your timing doesn't look too bad once you hit the AFR targets. With some quick adjustments to your OL fueling, I think your car should be running much better.
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      12-27-2012, 05:25 PM   #20
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I have my laptop set to max power but maybe I will try another USB socket.

THe procede settings are standard in regards to the Stage 2 9_10 Rev3 maps except for the wastegate and the canclear off.

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      12-27-2012, 05:36 PM   #21
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On your setting for Map 1, Change the OL Fuel setting to 95. That should drastically help with the fueling issue. When you get a chance, take another log after the change and post it on here or email it to me and I'll post it up.

As far as the disconnects, I think they could be power management related since the first log you took was fine, but the 2nd and 3rd both had drop outs (possibly from the laptop trying to conserve power). Maybe it could be caused by a loose connection somewhere in the Procede, but hopefully that is not the case. Once you open the Advanced Power Management setting Disable the control for USB (see attached pic)
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      12-27-2012, 05:41 PM   #22
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Ok, I will make the changes as you have suggested. Many thanks Justin!!
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