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      01-09-2013, 08:27 AM   #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by floydarogers View Post
ST810 Advanced Diesel Technology Workbook.pdf (part of training for BMW techs):
High Pressure Fuel System
The high pressure fuel system is mostly identical in design and
function as compared to the European version. However, some
components have been adapted to the different fuel specification.
These components are:
High-pressure pump
Fuel rail
Fuel injectors.
These adaptations are restricted to different coatings and materials
on the inside.
These coatings are for lubricity differences. HOWEVER, if you read the paper on VW HPFP failures for the newer Bosch HPFP they found that actual lubricity levels were better than US spec and in some cases met Euro spec. This was true for an overwhelming number of the samples. Just wanted to make that known.
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      01-09-2013, 08:33 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesandtrish View Post
Yes or No? Do you use a cetane or diesel cleaner additive to your fuel? If so, what brand and how often do you use it? I'll go first. Just started using Power Service diesel kleen w/ cetane boost. Plan on using it every fill up. I had SES light come on and dealer said it was carbon in the intake manifold. After using this for 200 miles, SES light went off.
Keep in mind if there is ANY sulphur in the additive using it will exceed the amount of allowed for ULSD and therefore may have an adverse affect on DPF life.
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      01-09-2013, 06:32 PM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesandtrish View Post
I don't know if it makes me feel better, but I'm more so curious as to if this helps. I love my diesel. A lot. I just want to make sure it lasts as long as possible since it seems that most people who drive a modern diesel vehicle (less than 5 years old) complains about the low lubricity of US diesel fuel. Go figure.
Sorry J&t, I'm just catching this. As an FYI, XPD contains a demulsifier which is typically not recommended for a vehicle without a dedicated water separator. The demulsification will allow water to fall out of the fuel mixture and could therefore cause more of a problem than if it were dispersed throughout the fuel if you get a slug of water I your lines.

You are not wrong to use whatever you like, and for all I know you've installed a secondary filtration setup, but this was my personal reason for not using XPD in my in modified fuel system.
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      01-09-2013, 08:45 PM   #26
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Thanks for the info Former Rotor. So just to make sure I have this straight, normally us diesel fuel doesn't have water. However, the demulsifier in the opti lube may make water present which would then in turn not be a good thing. I do not have a separate apparatus to filter any water like TDIWISE does, so I just want to make sure that I understand fully what may happen with my opti lube usage.
I also read somewhere that our fuel filters have some sort of built in water separator in them with an unknown capacity. I will try and find the link, but is there any truth to this and would it matter? I'm guessing not or you would be using XPD.
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      01-09-2013, 10:45 PM   #27
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I used Stanadyne in my VW. After reading BMW modified the 335d fuel system for the US, I decided not to use it in my 335d.

I would like to know what BMW did exactly for the US spec 335d though. If anyone has info besides the self stufy .pdf that would be great.
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      01-10-2013, 05:37 AM   #28
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      01-10-2013, 01:45 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesandtrish View Post
Thanks for the info Former Rotor. So just to make sure I have this straight, normally us diesel fuel doesn't have water. However, the demulsifier in the opti lube may make water present which would then in turn not be a good thing. I do not have a separate apparatus to filter any water like TDIWISE does, so I just want to make sure that I understand fully what may happen with my opti lube usage.
I also read somewhere that our fuel filters have some sort of built in water separator in them with an unknown capacity. I will try and find the link, but is there any truth to this and would it matter? I'm guessing not or you would be using XPD.
There is a min amount. It's measured in combination with sediment and is .05% (ATSM D2709).
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      01-13-2013, 06:42 AM   #30
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Lubricity is not the only parameter diesel fuel needs to comply with. Companies like Power Service apparently test their additives on many single fuel samples to see if their additives comply with these. Most additive aficionados don't look at the other parameters much and don't even think/imagine that putting stuff in would/might cause any harm. Its good that you guys at least are thinking about it and discussing it rationally.

The only thing that counts is whether the stuff actually improves something that matters, such as prolonging engine life or preventing a problem, and this at a reasonable cost. This can only happen if its used in a controlled comparison study in "real life" conditions. This has never been done and no additive manufacturer has ever published such a study.

What remains is that additives are still as originally designed: for specific engine or fuel problems. Usefulness as general prevention is a reasonable possibility that has unfortunately never been recommended by any manufacturer or shown by data from any fleet operator. If this were not true, such information would be all over the pro-additive message boards.

PL
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      01-13-2013, 07:03 AM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesandtrish View Post
Thanks for the info Former Rotor. So just to make sure I have this straight, normally us diesel fuel doesn't have water. However, the demulsifier in the opti lube may make water present which would then in turn not be a good thing. I do not have a separate apparatus to filter any water like TDIWISE does, so I just want to make sure that I understand fully what may happen with my opti lube usage.
I also read somewhere that our fuel filters have some sort of built in water separator in them with an unknown capacity. I will try and find the link, but is there any truth to this and would it matter? I'm guessing not or you would be using XPD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
There is a min amount. It's measured in combination with sediment and is .05% (ATSM D2709).
+1

First of all, I'm no expert, so everyone please feel free to correct, debate, or reaffirm as needed.

As I understand it...
Basically, as Socom is stating, there is always going to be some level of contamination in fuel some of this is suspended in solution and the rest is not. I believe ive read that our fuel filters are 95% efficient with regards to removing water. however, this is only up to an unsaid capacity as we have no way of draining off the water as is possible with a more conventional diesel fuel filter.

In the case of XPD, the additive contains a demulsifier which would force whatever water is in the solution to fall out. Over time however, that water can cause any number of issues on its own if not removed (ie bacterial film) but were it to eventually to all try to make its way into your engine, the filter would very likely not be able to handle it.

This is why many of the fuel-additive-using crowd for our vehicle who have not yet installed a TDIwyse-type setup for secondary filtration prefer to use additives with an emulsifier (causing the water to become suspended) as our fuel systems seem better suited to handle water in this state.

Hope this helps.
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      01-13-2013, 02:24 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor
Quote:
Originally Posted by Julesandtrish View Post
Thanks for the info Former Rotor. So just to make sure I have this straight, normally us diesel fuel doesn't have water. However, the demulsifier in the opti lube may make water present which would then in turn not be a good thing. I do not have a separate apparatus to filter any water like TDIWISE does, so I just want to make sure that I understand fully what may happen with my opti lube usage.
I also read somewhere that our fuel filters have some sort of built in water separator in them with an unknown capacity. I will try and find the link, but is there any truth to this and would it matter? I'm guessing not or you would be using XPD.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
There is a min amount. It's measured in combination with sediment and is .05% (ATSM D2709).
+1

First of all, I'm no expert, so everyone please feel free to correct, debate, or reaffirm as needed.

As I understand it...
Basically, as Socom is stating, there is always going to be some level of contamination in fuel some of this is suspended in solution and the rest is not. I believe ive read that our fuel filters are 95% efficient with regards to removing water. however, this is only up to an unsaid capacity as we have no way of draining off the water as is possible with a more conventional diesel fuel filter.

In the case of XPD, the additive contains a demulsifier which would force whatever water is in the solution to fall out. Over time however, that water can cause any number of issues on its own if not removed (ie bacterial film) but were it to eventually to all try to make its way into your engine, the filter would very likely not be able to handle it.

This is why many of the fuel-additive-using crowd for our vehicle who have not yet installed a TDIwyse-type setup for secondary filtration prefer to use additives with an emulsifier (causing the water to become suspended) as our fuel systems seem better suited to handle water in this state.

Hope this helps.
I do remember reading over on the TDI forum that the claims at demulsification are a little more than marketing and like said above, the demulsifer content is minuscule at best- this came from someone with actual market experience and a chem background- unfortunately I can't find the thread, so this is hearsay again.
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      01-13-2013, 02:41 PM   #33
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Does adding diesel fuel additive void BMW warranty?
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      01-13-2013, 03:09 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_335D
Does adding diesel fuel additive void BMW warranty?
My question would be how would they know you are using one? I don't think the additive would show in a fuel analysis as most are added at 1/4 ounce per gallon in standard measure.
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      01-13-2013, 03:21 PM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OILPowered View Post
My question would be how would they know you are using one? I don't think the additive would show in a fuel analysis as most are added at 1/4 ounce per gallon in standard measure.
and how they will differentiate between the additives added by oil company vs owner?
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      01-13-2013, 07:59 PM   #36
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Then if they can't tell if I added diesel fuel additive, I might start using it, to help prevent carbon buildup and any other problems in the future.
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      01-13-2013, 09:25 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CT_335D View Post
Then if they can't tell if I added diesel fuel additive, I might start using it, to help prevent carbon buildup and any other problems in the future.
The dealer could tell if you used an additive if it was not DPF friendly and it mucked up your DPF. Power Service is DPF friendly. Just double check the manfacturers label.
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      01-13-2013, 10:59 PM   #38
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I would imagine the easiest thing to test for would be biodiesel content.
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      01-14-2013, 07:59 AM   #39
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Quote:
Originally Posted by montr View Post
and how they will differentiate between the additives added by oil company vs owner?
Color of the fuel is one possibility.
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      01-14-2013, 08:07 AM   #40
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
. Power Service is DPF friendly.
I understand that's what their bottles say but if you ask them if product X contains any sulphur they will not answer. Technically to be DPF safe it would have to contain no sulphur because any sulphur will put your fuel over the limit allowed for ULSD. Strange I know. *shrug* I've also wondered how the PTFE(aka, Slickdiesel, Slick50, teflon) affects the DPF. Does it burn off? Turn to goo? Nothing?
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      01-14-2013, 09:20 AM   #41
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I understand that's what their bottles say but if you ask them if product X contains any sulphur they will not answer. Technically to be DPF safe it would have to contain no sulphur because any sulphur will put your fuel over the limit allowed for ULSD. Strange I know. *shrug* I've also wondered how the PTFE(aka, Slickdiesel, Slick50, teflon) affects the DPF. Does it burn off? Turn to goo? Nothing?
Stating that their product is DPF safe and if it fact it wasn't would be a HUGE liability. (Ask the maker of Slick50 about the consequences of false advertising).

I suppose every piece of equipement has a tolerance to include the DPF. Diesel contains sulpher and even if their product did contain an amount of sulfer, adding a few oz of an additive that contains an even smaller amount of sulpher should not post a problem for the DPF. Now whether or not adding Diesel Kleen would put the sulpher content over the ULSD limit,,,, who knows...

And while I do not have evidence as such, I assume Power Service tests their product in a lab to ensure it is DPF safe, not to mention the real world testing that takes place every day in DPF equipped trucks and cars.

BTW, Sliickdiesel has nothing to do with Slick50 or teflon. Diesel Kleen contains zero teflon.
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      01-14-2013, 10:25 AM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post

BTW, Sliickdiesel has nothing to do with Slick50 or teflon. Diesel Kleen contains zero teflon.
I read a post about the product which said it did and when I asked PS about it I never heard back from them. So I assumed being that they've quickly answered questions in the past this lack of an answer was infact an answers in itself.

Make sense?
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      01-14-2013, 10:32 AM   #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Socom View Post
I read a post about the product which said it did and when I asked PS about it I never heard back from them. So I assumed being that they've quickly answered questions in the past this lack of an answer was infact an answers in itself.

Make sense?
I contacted Power Service early last year to confirm as I had the very same question. Power Service was prompt to respond with an emphatic, "no" to Teflon and the rep went on to say Slickdiesel has nothing to with Slick50 (pure coincidence), but rather it is just a brand name they gave their proprietary lubricant additive.
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      01-14-2013, 10:49 AM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms View Post
I contacted Power Service early last year to confirm as I had the very same question. Power Service was prompt to respond with an emphatic, "no" to Teflon and the rep went on to say Slickdiesel has nothing to with Slick50 (pure coincidence), but rather it is just a brand name they gave their proprietary lubricant additive.
Nice..
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