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      01-14-2013, 10:54 AM   #45
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Nice..
As a precaution and in response to the question, I contacted them again today just to be certain. I will share their response as soon as I hear from them.
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      01-14-2013, 02:02 PM   #46
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As a precaution and in response to the question, I contacted them again today just to be certain. I will share their response as soon as I hear from them.
Cool. e I wonder if its a lamella of graphite? Some sort of dry lubricant.
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      01-14-2013, 05:26 PM   #47
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Cool. e I wonder if its a lamella of graphite? Some sort of dry lubricant.
I got some more answer today, see below...



Slickdiesel does not have anything to do with Slick 50, nor does Diesel Kleen contain teflon. Slickdiesel is a proprietary lubricator that we formulate specifically to increase the lubricity of your fuel and decrease wear and tear on fuel pumps and injectors. Diesel Kleen is 100% safe and compatible for use with all current aftertreatment technologies, including DOC, DPF, EGR, Urea-SCR. Please do not hesitate to contact me if you have additional questions.

Slickdiesel is a wet lubricant, not a dry one. Diesel Kleen is ULSD compliant, meaning that it contains less that 15ppm sulfur. .


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      01-14-2013, 06:16 PM   #48
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I got some more answer today, see below...
Thanks, Chris!
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      01-15-2013, 10:26 AM   #49
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Below is some additional information from Power Service as it relates to demulsipher/emulsiphers in diesel fuel.


Here is a discussion from the Chemist at Power Service.

All diesel fuel has water in it. The water that is in diesel fuel normally will not hurt or harm the motor, pumps or injectors. Ultra Low Diesel Fuel (S15) will have about 30-75 ppm water. Biodiesel can contain as much as 1500 ppm and remain clear. Biodiesel blends with diesel fuel typically contain more water than diesel fuel, as much as 300 ppm. Warm fuel will carry more water than cold fuel. When the water content of the fuel gets up to 100ppm or higher, the more likely fuel filter icing will occur when the temperatures become severe. In the winter months when the temperature drops below freezing, these water droplets can freeze on the filter face of the water separator causing the flow of fuel to stop, even though the fuel is still liquid. It does not take much water to cause “fuel filter icing” problems. Also, as the temperatures drop, water in the fuel can fall out depending on how much water is in the fuel and how cold it gets, which adds to water problems. Also, the water separator can squeeze out this water which can freeze on the filter face and cause the fuel to stop flowing through the filter even though the fuel is still liquid. This is called “Fuel Filter Icing” and is often mistaken for fuel gelling. Fuel filter icing problems can be dealt with effectively by appropriate use of additives, such as Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement® + Cetane Boost®, Clear-Diesel Fuel and Tank Cleaner®, and/or Diesel 911®. Diesel Fuel Supplement® + Cetane Boost® will also prevent diesel fuel from “gelling” down to as low as -40oF temperatures and minimize wax plugging of fuel filters at temperatures as much as 20-30oF below the cloud point of the fuel.

Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement® + Cetane Boost® and Diesel Kleen® +Cetane Boost® have been formulated to contain the most advanced injector cleaning technologies. These technologies provide maximum injector clean-up of injection deposits in all fuel injection systems, including High Pressure Common Rail (HPCR) systems installed on 2007 and newer engines. The engine operational improvements are significant:
• Increased MPG up to 8% with DK+CB® — fuel savings exceed cost of additive
• Increased power and reduced need for downshifting
• Smoother and quieter engine operation
• ULSD Compliant — contains less than 15 parts per million (ppm) sulfur
• Effective in all diesel fuels, including ULSD and biodiesel

Power Service Diesel Fuel Supplement® + Cetane Boost® and Diesel Kleen® +Cetane Boost® contain a "demulsifier". Demulsifiers prevent detergents from “emulsifying” water into the fuel during turbulent conditions. Demulsifiers tend to cause excess water to coalesce and precipitate from the fuel and do not harm water separator/coalesce filters.
ASTM D7261 - 08 Standard Test Method for Determining Water Separation Characteristics of Diesel Fuels by Portable Separometer
Significance and Use
This test method provides a measure of the presence of surfactants in diesel fuels, and can be performed in the field or in a laboratory. Like Test Method D 3948 used for jet fuel, this test method can detect traces of some refinery treating chemicals left in fuel. It can also detect surface active substances added to or picked up by the fuel during handling from point of production to point of use.
Certain additives, which can act as weak surfactants, give a slightly reduced DSEP rating. Other substances which are strong surfactants give much lower DSEP ratings.
While filter separators have not been common in diesel fuel systems, they could become more prevalent with ULSD containing increased additive content to ensure clean, dry fuels in new engine designs. Weak surfactants, with slightly reduced DSEP ratings, do not affect the ability of filter separators to separate free water from the fuel. Strong surfactants give a much lower DSEP rating and adversely affect the ability of filter separators to separate free water from the fuel.
Results from this test method do not have a known relationship to the rate of water settling in tanks.
The Micro-Separometer has a measurement range from 50 to 100. Values obtained outside of those limits are undefined and invalid.
1. Scope
1.1 This test method covers a rapid portable means for field and laboratory use to rate the ability of diesel fuels (both neat and those containing additives) to release entrained or emulsified water when passed through fiberglass coalescing material.
1.2 This test method is applicable to diesel fuels such as D 975 Grade No. 1 and Grade No. 2 of all sulfur levels, and MIL-F-16884, naval distillate fuel (NATO F-76).
Also, use of Diesel Fuel Supplement® + Cetane Boost® and Diesel Kleen +Cetane Boost will not harm oxidation catalysts or diesel particulate filters on 2007 or newer engines.


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      01-15-2013, 10:55 AM   #50
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Further in response to my concern about the demulsfier properties of Diesel Kleen+Cetane boost considering our cars do not have a water fuel seperator....

Power Service recommends using a product called Clear Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner. It removes water, but it is not an emulsifier. Emulsifiers will pull excess free suspended water droplets into the fuel, which can be harmful to injectors. Clear Diesel is a solubilizer, meaning that it will thoroughly disperse water on a molecular level, and the water will be harmlessly carried out of your fuel system. Employees at PS personally uses this product with every tank on our Bluetec Benz’s, 2012 F-250’s, Q7 TDI’s. Without the use of a product such as this, you will eventually accumulate a water bottom in your fuel tank. PS typically recommend using Diesel Kleen with every tank, and Clear Diesel every 4th tank or so.


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      01-15-2013, 08:52 PM   #51
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I just read official documentation from BMW that states the reason that fuel additives are not allowed Is because the compounds breakdown into metallic particles which can destroy or harm to DPF filter
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      01-15-2013, 10:07 PM   #52
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cssnms
Further in response to my concern about the demulsfier properties of Diesel Kleen+Cetane boost considering our cars do not have a water fuel seperator....

Power Service recommends using a product called Clear Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner. It removes water, but it is not an emulsifier. Emulsifiers will pull excess free suspended water droplets into the fuel, which can be harmful to injectors. Clear Diesel is a solubilizer, meaning that it will thoroughly disperse water on a molecular level, and the water will be harmlessly carried out of your fuel system. Employees at PS personally uses this product with every tank on our Bluetec Benz’s, 2012 F-250’s, Q7 TDI’s. Without the use of a product such as this, you will eventually accumulate a water bottom in your fuel tank. PS typically recommend using Diesel Kleen with every tank, and Clear Diesel every 4th tank or so.

I went out tonight to find some of that PS Clear Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner. They didn't have it at Autozone. Maybe an Ace HW or truck stop.
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      01-16-2013, 09:17 AM   #53
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I went out tonight to find some of that PS Clear Diesel Fuel & Tank Cleaner. They didn't have it at Autozone. Maybe an Ace HW or truck stop.
I am told it can be found at NAPA, Carquest, or O’Reilly’s - any of which can order it if they do not have it in stock. O'Reilly's is most likely to stock it.
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      01-16-2013, 09:38 AM   #54
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I also found it on amazon being sold by PS.
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      01-16-2013, 10:22 AM   #55
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If you had a 15 gallon tank full of dirty water and you put a 12oz bottle of clean water in it...the tank in reality will not be any cleaner what so ever.

Any fuel additive that is petroleum based ( power service, diesel kleen, etc) won't do shit to make your car run better-sorry. You're using petroleum to make diesel(petroleum) cleaner. You need something synthetic that is not petroleum based to make a difference. All the napa/pepboys/kragen junk on the shelves is the same shit "reformulated" which is why it has earned such a bad reputation for itself as snake oil. Sure it's compatible with your engine...because it's the same shit it's burning.

How easy... buy this, put it in your tank, and hope your 5 or 10bucks actually did what it said it was going to. How are you going to know? How are you going to check? Obviously you're not going to get your money back...
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      01-16-2013, 11:09 AM   #56
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Quote:
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If you had a 15 gallon tank full of dirty water and you put a 12oz bottle of clean water in it...the tank in reality will not be any cleaner what so ever.

Any fuel additive that is petroleum based ( power service, diesel kleen, etc) won't do shit to make your car run better-sorry. You're using petroleum to make diesel(petroleum) cleaner. You need something synthetic that is not petroleum based to make a difference. All the napa/pepboys/kragen junk on the shelves is the same shit "reformulated" which is why it has earned such a bad reputation for itself as snake oil. Sure it's compatible with your engine...because it's the same shit it's burning.

How easy... buy this, put it in your tank, and hope your 5 or 10bucks actually did what it said it was going to. How are you going to know? How are you going to check? Obviously you're not going to get your money back...
Out of curiosity, would you spend an additional .15 / gallon to fill up at a reputable station instead of a mom & pop shop you didn't trust? Because that's about the premium if you buy the additives in 80 oz containers. T many, $.15/g is money well spent for piece of mind. Your thoughts?
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      01-16-2013, 11:39 AM   #57
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TotalPower View Post
If you had a 15 gallon tank full of dirty water and you put a 12oz bottle of clean water in it...the tank in reality will not be any cleaner what so ever.

Any fuel additive that is petroleum based ( power service, diesel kleen, etc) won't do shit to make your car run better-sorry. You're using petroleum to make diesel(petroleum) cleaner. You need something synthetic that is not petroleum based to make a difference. All the napa/pepboys/kragen junk on the shelves is the same shit "reformulated" which is why it has earned such a bad reputation for itself as snake oil. Sure it's compatible with your engine...because it's the same shit it's burning.

How easy... buy this, put it in your tank, and hope your 5 or 10bucks actually did what it said it was going to. How are you going to know? How are you going to check? Obviously you're not going to get your money back...
Here we go again.... How's your additive business doing these days? MPGreen was it?
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      01-16-2013, 11:49 AM   #58
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Here we go again.... How's your additive business doing these days? MPGreen was it?
Good recall! I forgot all about that whole thing.
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      01-16-2013, 11:54 AM   #59
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Good recall! I forgot all about that whole thing.
How could I forget...

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=635151

Everytime there is an additive discusion he cannot help but interject himself, although I think he does it less so now that MPGreen went out of business.

Ask him if he ever located the MSDS sheets for MPGreen.
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      01-18-2013, 10:27 AM   #60
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Out of curiosity, would you spend an additional .15 / gallon to fill up at a reputable station instead of a mom & pop shop you didn't trust? Because that's about the premium if you buy the additives in 80 oz containers. T many, $.15/g is money well spent for piece of mind. Your thoughts?
I agree that the additives they use are well worth the money. Consider which additives they are using "higher levels of detergents" in order to reduce combustion chamber deposits. they have already put in a lot of petroleum based detergent "standard Stoddard Solvent" " Light petroleum solvent" etc.

Go back to the simple example:
You have 2000 gallons of dirty water in a pool, would you put 1 gallon of clean water in it and let your kids go swimming? More than likely you will have to add clean water & add something synthetic like chlorine/bromine. Again, to each his own
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      01-18-2013, 10:28 AM   #61
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Here we go again.... How's your additive business doing these days? MPGreen was it?
It's amazing how I positively review a product and now I sell it? I don't sell BMW's or Mich PSS's or Zaino either. Sorry bro
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      01-18-2013, 10:33 AM   #62
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It's amazing how I positively review a product and now I sell it? I don't sell BMW's or Mich PSS's or Zaino either. Sorry bro
Yawwwwn...
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      01-18-2013, 11:36 AM   #63
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Chris does he know where to put the MSDS book at? We had to deal with many times in my time in the Navy!!
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      01-21-2013, 10:16 AM   #64
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Quote:
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FormerRotor View Post
Out of curiosity, would you spend an additional .15 / gallon to fill up at a reputable station instead of a mom & pop shop you didn't trust? Because that's about the premium if you buy the additives in 80 oz containers. T many, $.15/g is money well spent for piece of mind. Your thoughts?
I agree that the additives they use are well worth the money. Consider which additives they are using "higher levels of detergents" in order to reduce combustion chamber deposits. they have already put in a lot of petroleum based detergent "standard Stoddard Solvent" " Light petroleum solvent" etc.

Go back to the simple example:
You have 2000 gallons of dirty water in a pool, would you put 1 gallon of clean water in it and let your kids go swimming? More than likely you will have to add clean water & add something synthetic like chlorine/bromine. Again, to each his own
Uh, no.

My best choice is to have it all:

1. Brand name diesel with the best additives in there already
2. The price at $.15 below everyone else at a mom and pop station
3. High volume station because of #1 and #2 above.

I already do this and have no problems with any of my diesel cars.

Its what to do on long trips that I would like data on aftermarket additives. Arguing over theoretical numbers (ASTM and lubricity with no data on other parameters, lack of data from fleet users etc.) is my problem.

No data means all there is is sales hype and faith is what is left: opinion. Not enough for me, but others need to choose wisely.

PL
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