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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90/E92/E93 Marketplace (For Sale / Trade / Wanted) > Vendor Comments/Review/Feedback Forum > Do not buy VRSF Down pipes



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      01-02-2013, 04:14 PM   #23
Chris_506
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
I apologize if we've offended you in anyway. Do you have first hand experience with our products? If not I'd be more than happy to put a product in your hand and allow you the chance to judge both value and quality first hand.

I generally find that it's better to base an opinion off personal experience.
Put a product on my hands ill test it for free and review it for free
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      01-02-2013, 04:16 PM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF
This is the first I've heard of your dissatisfaction. Could you please email me with your order number so we can send you a return label and get this sorted?

While I did read everything you posted, I'm having a tough time understanding how this could cause a boost leak. We have our o2 bungs set inside the pipe to allow clearance, this is the same method AR and MS use, it's not just us. It looks like the finish work around the o2 bung was overlooked on this individual pipe which is definitely not our standard of quality.

Please contact me directly so we can get this taken care of
+1

Those look nasty, but you didn't go about it the right way to get it fixed.
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      01-02-2013, 04:21 PM   #25
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I generally don't respond to direct posts in this manner but I feel like there's a lot of information here that needs a direct response.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
First and foremost I ordered the downpipes about 1 1/2 month ago, received them friday after several calls and inquiries.
When you ordered the downpipes, we clearly stated on our website that these were on back order and they were not in stock. While I do apologize for the delay, we made it clear that these were currently unavailable for immediate shipment.

I'd also like to point out the fact that you haven't attempted communication with us once in regards to the issue. While it is your right to post on the forum if you're dissatisfied, contacting us directly would have immediately resolved your problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
Upon opening the box, i was very disappointed, but before I tell you guys the reason why, I just want reiterate that I had no intentions of the VRSF downpipes being anywhere close to quality as the AR's. What i was expecting was to get a pair of downpipes with good weld quality and design.
The design you received is the same design 550+ other people have received to date.

Here's our sales numbers for this individual product sold from our website only. We've had this product out on the market since November 2011. There's also quite a few that are unaccounted for which have been sold via PM, international bulk shipments and via wholesale which aren't accounted for in this image.



If you need any reassurance, here's about 30 positive reviews from customers with references to their exact posts regarding our 3" DP's. There's at least double the amount posted on the forums as well.

http://www.vr-speed.com/performance/...-bmw-135i.html

Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
Well what i got was something totally different, such as ; consistency from weld to weld- One downpipe has one a certain pattern or welds whole the other downpipe has another. Along with the pattern being slightly different, more importantly the quality of the weld diminished from one downpipe to the other. Many vendors mentioned this and I didn't listen , they said "you don't know what batch you will get, some good some bad". The next thing is one of the downpipes at the V-band sections has what it seems like overflowed piping or extra piping and then was hit down and welded on, its hard to explain but in the pics you will see this. In the same V-band down pipe the welds slide all over the place and are not consistent with each other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
I'm not sure how to respond to this one since it seems there's a bit of nit picking going on but we do offer a lifetime guarantee on the piping which fully covers the welds in case of any leaks. This really sucks because who wants to find a boost leak because of a minor hole int he down pipe, or going back and changing the down pipe after realizing the poor quality due to weld quality.
After reading this a couple times, I believe the term you're referring to is an exhaust leak. We have yet to receive one returned downpipe out of the 500+ sets due to an exhaust leak. A "pretty weld pattern" will not lead to a leak free weld. In most cases, a "pretty weld" with less penetration will cause pre-mature cracking as well as leaks.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
The last thing is the 02 sensor flange and the threading on it, it really seems as if someone was in a rush to get these done and didn't tap the hole the right way as there was shards of metal everywhere and the bolt in the o2 location was very tough to spin out.
We run a hand tap through each and every one of these downpipes before shipping them out. Any customer who has picked one of these up from our location can attest to this as I don't let them leave the shop until we do. This is to ensure that the o2 sensors install/uninstall without any problems and to make it a bit easier on the installer who doesn't thread the o2 sensor before installing the DP.

Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
I want everyone to be aware to that I am not making this thread in lou of bashing VRSF, maybe a few of the batches they made were good enough for others or maybe i got a bad batch but these downpipes are ones I certainly wouldn't put on my 335i, neither would I want any other fellow 335i'ers to have to go through this and realize the poor quality. I do understand that 400 dollars they are very reasonable which they are, but these are not what others were saying they were, i.e. forums, testimonials. I have attached pics so you can guys see whats going on and be well informed of the situation with these downpipes.
Every other picture posted in the reviews on this forum shows the exact same thing you received with the exception of the clean up on the o2 sensor bung which I sincerely apologize for. Again, please contact me directly so we can resolve this.

Here's some pictures taken from a set we just ripped out of the box. Is it perfect? No, but is it better than 99% of the available selection at the same price point? Absolutely.

If you want perfect, wait and see what we're releasing in the next few weeks. The new casting method we're using will be THE new standard for quality.

Last edited by Tiago@VRSF; 01-02-2013 at 04:46 PM.
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      01-02-2013, 04:30 PM   #26
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro View Post
Very professional response Tiago.

I've had nothing but good experiences dealing with Tiago and the dp's I have certainly don't seem to have any of the issues that the OP has brought up. Unfortunate that he didn't just contact Tiago directly instead of trying to blast VRSF.

on the "boost leak" from the dp's
+1 should've just contacted Tiago in the beginning...
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      01-02-2013, 04:31 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post

Here's our sales numbers for this individual product from our website. We've also sold quite a few via PM, international bulk shipments and via wholesale which aren't accounted for in this image.


Nice numbers! business is running great
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      01-02-2013, 04:45 PM   #28
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Originally Posted by farb View Post
Nice numbers! business is running great
We'd be nothing without you guys. Thank you for giving us the opportunity
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      01-02-2013, 04:55 PM   #29
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Just grabbed some pics of the nearest products I could find, I'll get some more pics later and possibly start a fab thread to showcase the pretty stuff.

Here's one from a of downpipes and the weld quality. These are unedited, pulled straight from the first box opened:



Here's our new chargepipe which just came in a few days ago. Available for N55, HKS or Tial.

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      01-02-2013, 05:34 PM   #30
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Even though he didn't contact the vendor first, the vendor or op isn't responsible. Who work in quality control should have caught them before they got packaged. A bad set got out, but it isn't the end of the world and they are getting replaced. Shyt happens.
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      01-02-2013, 05:53 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tigermack View Post
Have you contacted them regarding to this?
No I have not, but he has contacted me via this thread.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Timore View Post
I have BMS ones and the quality and fitment was excellent, I know they are from somewhere over there (china, taiwan, etc...) but the guys at BMS do not mess around. They found a quality manufacturer and I have not heard one complaint.
Yeah seems like the BMS were the second most recommended ones after AR's, when keeping price point in mind.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Indo Rider View Post
I'm sorry, but you loose all credibility when you say youre worried about a boost leak because of the downpipes...
Im sorry that one statement in my 99% true story didn't add up to you, as stated earlier I was very exhausted from the night before but What I meant was exhaust leak.

Quote:
Originally Posted by creaminz View Post
Looks like bad batch, have you try contacting them?
No, and quite frankly I don't understand why I should have to chase a manufacturer to fix a product that should have been right in the first place. ESPECIALLY after having to wait 1 1/2 month for them. Just speaking from a consumer standpoint here, Im not trying to bash or blast the vendor but I was sold a very poor product, which did not even meet their own requirements.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
This is the first I've heard of your dissatisfaction. Could you please email me with your order number so we can send you a return label and get this sorted?
How about you send me contact details because we need to have a talk. Verification of a very high end local weld shop, verified weld quality to be very poor and as they said "This downpipes were rushed to be put together".

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
This is the first I've heard of your dissatisfaction. Could you please email me with your order number so we can send you a return label and get this sorted?

While I did read everything you posted, I'm having a tough time understanding how this could cause a boost leak. We have our o2 bungs set inside the pipe to allow clearance, this is the same method AR and MS use, it's not just us. It looks like the finish work around the o2 bung was overlooked on this individual pipe which is definitely not our standard of quality.

Please contact me directly so we can get this taken care of
This is my fault as it seems that everythin g has to be very specific for you to understand the general purpose of the complaint, which is that if there is a hole in any piece of metal pipe where their is air flow; their "WIll BE A LEAK". Ideally air flow in any type of exhaust of material whether it is on the minute scale or huge for that matter,there is going to be an extrusion of air . Regardless of it being a boost leak which was said in all honesty because I wasn't thinking and was very tired from the night before or exhaust leak(90-100% probable) there is a problem with the weld quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by GOTMH8N View Post
Looks like pretty good customer service to me
Whats the customer service worth when your product wasn't good to begin with?. Sorry to be so frank or upfront but Im being honest here. If this was a bad batch then I understand but after making this thread and further review from some that had them, specifically a local member with VRSF's, he complained about the downpipes making noise when making a hard left or right. Seems as if clearance with the subframe might have been an issue. Things like this that make me want to go with a different vendor, because metal is metal; there is little truth in this statement but even if it is true, the bends or design of the pipe is very important. I would be extremely disappointed if this was another problem of these downpipes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tiago@VRSF View Post
I apologize if we've offended you in anyway. Do you have first hand experience with our products? If not I'd be more than happy to put a product in your hand and allow you the chance to judge both value and quality first hand.
Well I have seen them first hand.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Metro View Post
Very professional response Tiago.

I've had nothing but good experiences dealing with Tiago and the dp's I have certainly don't seem to have any of the issues that the OP has brought up. Unfortunate that he didn't just contact Tiago directly instead of trying to blast VRSF.
As stated earlier, I shouldn't have to chase the manufacturer to give me a product that didn't meet the stated requirements on their site.Even if the first statement showed no credibility to you, there is that other thing which is How could other potential customers know about the quality of these downpipes?. How would they know which manufacturers are better or worse if we don't speak up as paying customers or as paying enthusiasts about the products we put on our cars. The fight is not with me my friend, were on the same team.The fight should be about vendors offering a product that is meeting the standards in which they specified earlier. I sincerely believe the point of this thread is to inform others and for them to be aware because I wasn't informed of this.

Last edited by m power ///; 01-02-2013 at 06:07 PM.
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      01-02-2013, 06:09 PM   #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
No, and quite frankly I don't understand why I should have to chase a manufacturer to fix a product that should have been right in the first place. ESPECIALLY after having to wait 1 1/2 month for them. Just speaking from a consumer standpoint here, Im not trying to bash or blast the vendor but I was sold a very poor product, which did not even meet their own requirements.
Speaking from general automotive exp. this is the absolute wrong attitude to have. First of all you bought a "budget" oriented part, And even though you said you didnt expect perfection you sure make it sound like that is your complaint. Goes back to the old saying " you get what you pay for". While i have no personal expirence with VRSF alot of people have, And have had very good results.

If you go to Fridays and order a steak and its not Exactly cooked right, Do you get mad and leave the resturant a bad review in the newspaper? Perhaps you would ask your waited to recook the steak, or maybe you eat it and tell your self, " well i guess if i wanted a Ruth Chris style steak I probibly shouldnt have come to fridays"

And you can't use time of wait as a negative if you were notified of the back order situation. Back order does not mean they are making a custom set just for you.
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      01-02-2013, 06:14 PM   #33
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Originally Posted by xzibit a View Post
Speaking from general automotive exp. this is the absolute wrong attitude to have. First of all you bought a "budget" oriented part, And even though you said you didnt expect perfection you sure make it sound like that is your complaint. Goes back to the old saying " you get what you pay for". While i have no personal expirence with VRSF alot of people have, And have had very good results.

If you go to Fridays and order a steak and its not Exactly cooked right, Do you get mad and leave the resturant a bad review in the newspaper? Perhaps you would ask your waited to recook the steak, or maybe you eat it and tell your self, " well i guess if i wanted a Ruth Chris style steak I probibly shouldnt have come to fridays"

And you can't use time of wait as a negative if you were notified of the back order situation. Back order does not mean they are making a custom set just for you.
Well your wrong !. I don't want a perfect product and neither did I say i did but neither did I say I wanted a poor product. Fact of the matter still remains, the vendor himself verified a bad batch was sent via over looked. And just for your FYI it doesn't matter how many good reviews there are, I didn't get a good product, therfore i have the right to complain.
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      01-02-2013, 06:24 PM   #34
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Good lord. Bad products happen once in a while, its a fact of life. Even if these were made in America by a master welder a bad one would occur once in a while. Everyone makes mistakes, we are only human.

VRSF's customer service has swayed me to purchase products from them once my tax refund is in!
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      01-02-2013, 06:33 PM   #35
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Getting a product that slipped through quality control is a bummer. But when a member with no credibility and a piss attitude with no respect to even contact the vendor first complains; they should get nothing.
I feel bad for good vendors that have to deal with low class customers.
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      01-02-2013, 06:38 PM   #36
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Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
Well your wrong !. I don't want a perfect product and neither did I say i did but neither did I say I wanted a poor product. Fact of the matter still remains, the vendor himself verified a bad batch was sent via over looked. And just for your FYI it doesn't matter how many good reviews there are, I didn't get a good product, therfore i have the right to complain.
I understand your mad, you handled this wrong man.

1. Contact vendor and alow at least 24-48 hours for response
2. If vendor des not make good then flame them, the vendor in question is a great vendor and will fix this, I don't ave any of his products and know this.
3. Noone is perfect man, very hard to run a business and check every order EVERYTIME....it slipped by wich sucks, but give people a chance to fix a mistake it yiu may get nothing in return....my 02 cents.

Also, with fitment, you can NOT tighten down the exhaust until everything is fitted or it will cause tension on the DP not fitted and throw it out of alignment as you have picture....not saying T's is the case but worth a look. I have installed 20 sets of Dps.
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      01-02-2013, 06:40 PM   #37
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Originally Posted by GarageKeptE92 View Post
Getting a product that slipped through quality control is a bummer. But when a member with no credibility and a piss attitude with no respect to even contact the vendor first complains; they should get nothing.
I feel bad for good vendors that have to deal with low class customers.
Slipped?. Funny thing is as mentioned earlier a local had fitment issues with his VRSF's. Im sorry I don't have 1000000 rep points for you to believe me as the pictures weren't good enough. And Im also sorry you don't like my class, but unfortunately we don't stay quiet when products of this stature are sold to us. What do you expect me to do stay quiet?. No sir. Good luck when you get a bad product bud.
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      01-02-2013, 06:42 PM   #38
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Originally Posted by robc1976 View Post
I understand your mad, you handled this wrong man.

1. Contact vendor and alow at least 24-48 hours for response
2. If vendor des not make good then flame them, the vendor in question is a great vendor and will fix this, I don't ave any of his products and know this.
3. Noone is perfect man, very hard to run a business and check every order EVERYTIME....it slipped by wich sucks, but give people a chance to fix a mistake it yiu may get nothing in return....my 02 cents.

Also, with fitment, you can NOT tighten down the exhaust until everything is fitted or it will cause tension on the DP not fitted and throw it out of alignment as you have picture....not saying T's is the case but worth a look. I have installed 20 sets of Dps.
Very true man. Well said.
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      01-02-2013, 06:51 PM   #39
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Slipped?. Funny thing is as mentioned earlier a local had fitment issues with his VRSF's. Im sorry I don't have 1000000 rep points for you to believe me as the pictures weren't good enough. And Im also sorry you don't like my class, but unfortunately we don't stay quiet when products of this stature are sold to us. What do you expect me to do stay quiet?. No sir. Good luck when you get a bad product bud.
Its this same attitude presented here that makes you low class. Everyone here agrees you should have contacted the vendor first. You also complained about the wait and failed to realize it was on back order as it said it clearly on the site.
Your pictures are meaningless. Nobody knows you and those downpipes could be from a handful of other manufacturers but thats not the point. Your responses and attitude stink as well as the way you went about it. Grow up.

When you own your own business you will understand that business is a 2 way street. If someone talked bad about your business and they didnt give you the opportunity to fix it you be pissed. Your immaturity wont get you too far in life.
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      01-02-2013, 06:58 PM   #40
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Originally Posted by GarageKeptE92 View Post
Its this same attitude presented here that makes you low class. Everyone here agrees you should have contacted the vendor first. You also complained about the wait and failed to realize it was on back order as it said it clearly on the site.
Your pictures are meaningless. Nobody knows you and those downpipes could be from a handful of other manufacturers but thats not the point. Your responses and attitude stink as well as the way you went about it. Grow up.

When you own your own business you will understand that business is a 2 way street.
I currently own 8 well known retail franchise stores,that you probably get your daily dose of caffeine from, so Im actually more used to customer service and product quality than you are. I have to deal with people on a minute by minute basis.I know what customer service is. Sorry that I don't have an attitude you approve of.
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      01-02-2013, 07:08 PM   #41
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Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
I currently own 8 well known retail franchise stores,that you probably get your daily dose of caffeine from, so Im actually more used to customer service and product quality than you are. I have to deal with people on a minute by minute basis.I know what customer service is. Sorry that I don't have an attitude you approve of.
If thats the case i feel bad for you. Let me start by saying i dont purchase any products on the daily like that. As a retail owner you wouldnt like if someone went on google and posted a negative review about your supposed franchise stores without the opportunity to fix it first. I know many people that google reviews and other mediums about stores. It would be a shame to lose business over a single transaction with an easy resolution. I hope you dont treat your customers the same way you treat vendors.
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      01-02-2013, 07:18 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by m power /// View Post
No, and quite frankly I don't understand why I should have to chase a manufacturer to fix a product that should have been right in the first place. ESPECIALLY after having to wait 1 1/2 month for them. Just speaking from a consumer standpoint here, Im not trying to bash or blast the vendor but I was sold a very poor product, which did not even meet their own requirements.
You're not trying to bash or blast them, but you're telling people not to buy their products.

And where is this "chasing the manufacturer" coming from, you didn't even try to contact them. That's not chasing them down. If you contacted them and they refused to talk to you, then it's a case of having to chase them down. How could they have possibly known you had an issue if you didn't even make them aware of it?

As for the wait time, they stated you were made aware of the back-order status.

It sucks when you run into an issue, but surely as an owner of "8 stores" you should know that customers aren't always 100% satisfied, and I'm guessing you would be upset if they just went and told all their friends not to shop there without talking to you first.
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      01-02-2013, 07:18 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by GarageKeptE92 View Post
If thats the case i feel bad for you. Let me start by saying i dont purchase any products on the daily like that. As a retail owner you wouldnt like if someone went on google and posted a negative review about your supposed franchise stores without the opportunity to fix it first. I know many people that google reviews and other mediums about stores. It would be a shame to lose business over a single transaction with an easy resolution. I hope you dont treat your customers the same way you treat vendors.
Don't feel bad. I won the customer satisfaction award from 2006-2012, never mind surpassing the companies expectations for yearly gross sales. I rotate myself to each and every store and I know each and every employee on a name by name basis. I pay my employees good which many disagree with that are in the same industry, but its this exact reason why I win an award year after year. And yes if my cup of coffee is something your not satisfied with, I will gladly throw it out make it till their SATISFIED. This is usually never the case though, And no people don't go on google and make bad reviews about any one of my 8 stores, because I don't give them that chance in the first place. Mistakes happen I understand, but I have been in the industry for way too long to not know how to satisfy the customer. Its sad that its hard for you to understand this but I am sorry my attitude wasn't good enough for you.
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      01-02-2013, 07:26 PM   #44
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Don't you know everyone on the internet are millionaires with multiple businesses. That's why we all talk about it on the internet because people don't know who we are in real life. We got the hottest wifes the fastest cars and the most money. We are known as e thugs. Everyone here has told you you should have made the vendor aware first before posting. How can he fix a problem he is not aware of. If that is still too hard for your thick head to understand then there is nothing anyone else here can do for you.
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