E90Post
 


Extreme Power House
 
BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Technical Forums > AUDIO/VIDEO + BLUETOOTH + Electronics/Alarm/Software > Logic 7 Upgrade



Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
      05-06-2013, 04:30 PM   #1
joshtaz
Registered
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325xi
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posts: 4
iTrader: (0)

Logic 7 Upgrade

I have been researching on how to upgrade the logic 7 sound system in my 06 325xi. I just want to make sure I am starting the right way.

First, I am going to replace my amp with a MS-8 with Technic's wiring harness. I am going to keep the stock speakers for now and just get a tweeter for the center speaker.

Is this the best way to start upgrading my system, or is there a better way to do this?
joshtaz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2013, 05:02 PM   #2
ctuna
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Posts: 4,183
iTrader: (0)

You need to recode to Hi Fi output for ms-8

You need to recode to Hi Fi output for ms-8
You could also consider a mobridge da-2 if you don't want to recode.

What are your goals would be a good thing to state so people can
respond more correctly to what you want.
ctuna is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2013, 05:37 PM   #3
kaigoss69
Brigadier General
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 3,012
iTrader: (5)

No need to recode with the MS-8, it sums the L7 amp channels perfectly. Just be aware of the MS-8 drawbacks, like BT echo, turn on/off pops, and reliability. Other than that, in combination with the tweeter addition, best bang for your buck upgrade you can do!
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2013, 07:43 PM   #4
joshtaz
Registered
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325xi
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posts: 4
iTrader: (0)

My goals are to increase my systems performance. Not increase to maximum volume, just make it sounds better. I eventually want to upgrade my subs to sws-8s and possibly add a 10" in the back.

Is there any way to fix any of the ms-8 drawbacks? I don't necessarily care about BT, it sucks already. The pops might annoy me, is there any way around that? As for reliability, would it last more than 2 or 3 years?

I have also heard that simply getting a better amp for the stock subs makes it sound a lot better. Is that true? If so, what do I have to look for in an amp to make sure it will be compatible. Is there a remote wire I can hook into?

Sorry for all of the questions, I just have been trying to track down all of these answers on the forums, but I have been reading so many different things, it's hard to keep it straight. I just want to go into this upgrade with all of the information. Thanks!
joshtaz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2013, 07:51 PM   #5
ctuna
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Posts: 4,183
iTrader: (0)

You might want to read this one

http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...Vp+electricity

Vp makes some comments about processors in this thread.

You can use summing but using and amp to drive another amp
of similar size is not the optimal way to do things from a design and efficiency point of view.

Did you read this one
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showthread.php?t=641323
ctuna is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2013, 08:31 PM   #6
joshtaz
Registered
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325xi
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Grand Rapids, MI

Posts: 4
iTrader: (0)

Interesting I did not see that M3 thread, but that answered a lot of questions about the MS-8. I realize it is probably not the absolute best choice, but it seems like it would be the most cost effective one at this point in time, seeing as they are going for only 300-400 on eBay.

After reading the other thread, I am still confused about the sub amp. I have heard that blaupunkt is the way to go to power the stock subs and add a little more power to them, but there have been so many different models on different threads that I'm not sure what exactly I am looking for in one.

So it's looking like I will want to add the center tweeter, an ms-8, and an aftermarket amp to power the stock subs. I know I will need the harness from Technic. Is there anything else I will need? Also, do you have any suggestions about the aftermarket amp for the subs or do you suggest a different route to go all together? Thanks a lot.
joshtaz is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-06-2013, 09:31 PM   #7
ctuna
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Posts: 4,183
iTrader: (0)

Best to talk to Technic

Best to talk to Technic.
He will give you budget wise and common sense council.
I would be looking at something that could power some upgraded
front doors and floors.
Also Technic can sell you all the needed mounting hardware
and adapters and other odds and ends I think.

The Jl audio XD amps are a standard , known to sound good
and are a quality product. These are the most used amps here
except for the really high end stuff.

Last edited by ctuna; 05-06-2013 at 09:37 PM.
ctuna is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2013, 12:07 AM   #8
bmw325i
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States

Posts: 4,115
iTrader: (5)

At a minimum you need to amp the front speakers and underseat subs. The MS8 doesn't produce enough power and unless you amp the front speakers it will sound worse than stock.
bmw325i is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-07-2013, 08:19 AM   #9
kaigoss69
Brigadier General
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 3,012
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw325i View Post
At a minimum you need to amp the front speakers and underseat subs. The MS8 doesn't produce enough power and unless you amp the front speakers it will sound worse than stock.
My experience is a different one. I found that the MS-8 internal amp has enough power to drive the L7 4" components to very high (painful) volume levels without distortion. Keep in mind, they are 2 ohm so the MS-8 outputs 3 x 30W to the front stage.

I will agree though that the underseats are not happy with 20W and that they need more power to keep up with the components.
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-08-2013, 05:58 PM   #10
bmw325i
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States

Posts: 4,115
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
My experience is a different one. I found that the MS-8 internal amp has enough power to drive the L7 4" components to very high (painful) volume levels without distortion. Keep in mind, they are 2 ohm so the MS-8 outputs 3 x 30W to the front stage.

I will agree though that the underseats are not happy with 20W and that they need more power to keep up with the components.
I had the ms8 installed on its own for a couple months, and no matter what I did I couldn't get it to a reasonable volume without distortion. The underseats are an even bigger issue since they are 4 ohm. I installed a jl xd600/6 and that was a huge improvement. It's more power than you'd ever need with stock speakers but at least its clean power and you can always upgrade to better speakers later.


And ctuna you do not need to recode in this situation, but you can. I had the ms8 alone hooked up both ways and it was no different. It is simpler just to recode though if you know how to do it.
bmw325i is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-08-2013, 07:35 PM   #11
kaigoss69
Brigadier General
 
kaigoss69's Avatar
 
Drives: '08 335i
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: JAX

Posts: 3,012
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmw325i View Post
I had the ms8 installed on its own for a couple months, and no matter what I did I couldn't get it to a reasonable volume without distortion. The underseats are an even bigger issue since they are 4 ohm. I installed a jl xd600/6 and that was a huge improvement. It's more power than you'd ever need with stock speakers but at least its clean power and you can always upgrade to better speakers later.
If you had had an amp on the underseats, it would have been different I bet. I'm sure you had a level-matching issue. 90W to the mids/highs and only 40W to the midbass, so the processor had to do a bunch of cutting and boosting during calibration to get the levels matched, which ate up headroom.
__________________
Mobridge DA2 > JBL MS-8 > JL Audio HD600/4 > (3) Hybrid Audio L3SE & (2) Rainbow Cal25; JL Audio HD900/5 > (2) Morel HCW-10 & (1) IDMax 15
kaigoss69 is offline   United_States
0
Reply With Quote
      05-08-2013, 11:36 PM   #12
ctuna
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Posts: 4,183
iTrader: (0)

Yeah I know its possible its just not koeshser.

Yeah I know its possible its just not koeshser.
no bueno from engineering point of view.
ctuna is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-09-2013, 12:32 AM   #13
bmw325i
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States

Posts: 4,115
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
If you had had an amp on the underseats, it would have been different I bet. I'm sure you had a level-matching issue. 90W to the mids/highs and only 40W to the midbass, so the processor had to do a bunch of cutting and boosting during calibration to get the levels matched, which ate up headroom.
Its actually 35 watts for the mids and highs, and 20 watts for the midbass.

I actually tried having my sub play up to the mids and highs. It was a little bit better, so you might be right about level matching being part of the cause, but I still think it is worth it to just amp the front speakers, and even the center channel.

Having more power than necessary is good for sq, you'll never clip or hear distortion. I have Morel Hybrid Ovation II's in the front, and I had each of them wired on their own channel on a xd600/6. Then I tried each front speaker on 2 channels bridged getting 200 watts each, and it sounds much better, everything is just cleaner, even though it got loud enough for me before and sounded great.

Anyways from what I experienced with the ms8 it is lacking in power, but maybe I just had my expectations too high for what it is.
bmw325i is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2013, 04:55 AM   #14
Bicax
Private First Class
 
Drives: 2010 BMW 335d (E91)
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Barcelona

Posts: 191
iTrader: (0)

Quote:
Originally Posted by kaigoss69 View Post
No need to recode with the MS-8, it sums the L7 amp channels perfectly. J
Hey kai, isn't there a considerable sound quality increase in bypassing the OEM amp (either by recoding or adding the DA2) before adding the MS8, though?

I've seen a few posts pointing towards this, notably something that Technic said in one of his installs:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Technic
For the MS-8 and OEM Logic7 integration my only recommendation is removing completely the OEM amp. This will take care of the three inherent problems with the OEM Logic7 interface with the MS-8:

- uneven high level inputs to the MS-8
- MS-8 Input Setup must be used to sum, de-EQ and low level convert the OEM amp outputs
- speed-dependent volume and equalization of OEM amp outputs
I'm asking this because on Monday I should be ordering a DA2 (my MS8 already arrived and has been waiting for a month, it's quite hard to get mObridge stuff here in Spain it seems), so I'm still on time to chicken out.
Bicax is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2013, 08:01 AM   #15
taibanl
Brigadier General
 
taibanl's Avatar
 
Drives: BMW
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: NA

Posts: 3,473
iTrader: (4)

Fyi if you do not have a trunk sub you shouldnt have to try too hard to get good midbass.
taibanl is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2013, 08:09 AM   #16
wilbur_the_goose
First Lieutenant
 
Drives: 2010 328xi Coupe
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Metro Philly

Posts: 386
iTrader: (0)

You sure you want to put that kind of money into an '06?
wilbur_the_goose is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2013, 11:28 AM   #17
ctuna
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 325xi 06 wagon MT
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Santa Cruz, Ca

Posts: 4,183
iTrader: (0)

When you compare power look out for this.

When you compare power look out for this.
Most car manufacturers will not list RMS power.
They will state power but its actually highly inflated and it
will be peak power at a fairly high distortion number in comparison
to aftermarket amps at least the good ones.
So as a guess the actual RMS power on the stock specs is actually half
of what is listed. This is further hidden by the fact BMW uses
2 ohm speakers which are not typical and even further skew the power spec
as 4 ohm speakers are the more common value.

So condsidering these factors for example the Hi Fi I had probably only has 12 watts RMS at 2 ohms on the door channels.
When I put in and XD600/6 its running at 100 watts rms on the same speakers.
ctuna is offline  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2013, 02:14 PM   #18
bmw325i
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States

Posts: 4,115
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bicax View Post
Hey kai, isn't there a considerable sound quality increase in bypassing the OEM amp (either by recoding or adding the DA2) before adding the MS8, though?

I've seen a few posts pointing towards this, notably something that Technic said in one of his installs:



I'm asking this because on Monday I should be ordering a DA2 (my MS8 already arrived and has been waiting for a month, it's quite hard to get mObridge stuff here in Spain it seems), so I'm still on time to chicken out.
Ive tried with the stock amp and recoded and it was no different, sounds the same either way.

The DA2 should be an improvement. I've seen Ken recommend it quite a few times, so it must be good. If you can afford it, do it.
bmw325i is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
      05-10-2013, 02:19 PM   #19
bmw325i
Brigadier General
 
Drives: 2006 BMW 325i
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: United States

Posts: 4,115
iTrader: (5)

Quote:
Originally Posted by wilbur_the_goose View Post
You sure you want to put that kind of money into an '06?
Why not, if it makes you happy? After all it is only money, its not real. You have to enjoy everything while you can, including music.
bmw325i is online now  
0
Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 07:43 PM.




e90post
Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.0
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
1Addicts.com, BIMMERPOST.com, E90Post.com, F30Post.com, M3Post.com, ZPost.com, 5Post.com, 6Post.com, 7Post.com, XBimmers.com logo and trademark are properties of BIMMERPOST