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BMW 3-Series (E90 E92) Forum > E90 / E92 / E93 3-series Powertrain and Drivetrain Discussions > N54 Turbo Engine / Drivetrain / Exhaust Modifications - 335i > Just another 660whp dyno run (Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo on E85)



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      12-18-2012, 05:04 PM   #1
shiv@vishnu
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Smile Just another 660whp dyno run (Vishnu/FFTEC Single Turbo on E85)

Hi guys,
A few days ago we had the opportunity to do some E85 testing in a Melissa's single turbo 6MT. This time we did testing on straight e85 and meth (1200cc/min). Still have a little work do to but the initial E85 testing is looking promising. The car is only running 22-23psi peak and still has a pump gas ignition timing curve which means that there is still probably another 15-25whp in there to be gained up top though more spark advance which we will get to during in the next dyno tuning session. But that will have to wait because I think Melissa just wants to spend this week driving her car. We were going to run the car the drag strip this past saturday but the track got rained out

*Please note that we were testing on a Dynojet Model 224 which has a speed limit of 150mph. So we couldn't do our runs in 5th gear since it wouldn't record the dyno pull. And doing it in 4th gear required running soft MT drag radials to eliminate wheelspin. This certainly cost us some power due to frictional losses. And the runs were pretty violent and lasted only 3.5 seconds once the car hit full boost. Video to come soon. This explains the waviness in the dyno pulls. Going to a Dynojet 248 (with a higher max speed) would allow the 5th gear pulls a car at this power level really needs for best numbers/results. In 5th and with road tires, my guess is that the car would put down closer to 675-680whp with no tuning changes.

Mods:
VFF 700
Spec clutch/lw flywheel
DSS axles
Quaiffe LSD
Procede Rev3
PWM Meth
VFF In-line fuel pump
Helix FMIC

Actual/Uncorrected HP shown

Testing conditions:
59F
29.98 in-Hg
55% Humidity
STD CF of 0.99
Attached Images
 

Last edited by shiv@vishnu; 12-18-2012 at 05:52 PM.
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      12-18-2012, 05:09 PM   #2
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Awesome results! So there is no flexfuel sensor in this car correct?
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      12-18-2012, 05:12 PM   #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dmacc View Post
Awesome results! So there is no flexfuel sensor in this car correct?
There actually is a flexfuel sensor on the car from back when the car ran our flexfuel kit with stock turbo FBO. But we aren't taking full advantage of it (yet) since the car is being run exclusively on straight E85 (no mixing). This is more of an engineering exercise to see what this engine can (and our upgraded) fuel system can ready do when everything is optimized.
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      12-18-2012, 05:17 PM   #4
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this car must moveeeeeee
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      12-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #5
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Is this E85 or methanol injection or both?

If methanol injection is on can you turn it off and post those results? Reading of all the fires, leaks, and headaches posted about meth has me completely spooked on it and with E85 you should not need it anyway.
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      12-18-2012, 05:18 PM   #6
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Will there be a single turbo running strictly E85 and no meth?
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      12-18-2012, 05:26 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RnmEvo9 View Post
Will there be a single turbo running strictly E85 and no meth?
Eventually, yes. Right now, using methanol for charge cooling is pretty critical at this power level. And with a good trunk mount set-up, compression fittings all around and FMIC-mounted nozzles, there really isn't a safety concern with running methanol injection IMHO.
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      12-18-2012, 05:29 PM   #8
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Shiv,

Awesome #'s! I have some questions regarding the progression of this kit.
  1. Is 23psi the max psi
  2. Can you move the curve to the left 1000 rpms
  3. what are the limiting factors your are seeing right now

Genuine questions!! Thanks for your advancement in the N54 community...
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      12-18-2012, 05:31 PM   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spectacula View Post
this car must moveeeeeee
Yes, it's pretty awesome. Definitely faster than mine when it ran a 10.8. Which means this car should be good for mid 10s when weather permits at the strip. The funny thing is that Melissa has two baby seats in the back for her kids. And she drives it daily at this power level

She tells us that she drives like a grandma until the kids are dropped off at school and the has some tire-smoking fun on the way home.
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      12-18-2012, 05:41 PM   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NjRep335i View Post
Shiv,

Awesome #'s! I have some questions regarding the progression of this kit.
  1. Is 23psi the max psi
  2. Can you move the curve to the left 1000 rpms
  3. what are the limiting factors your are seeing right now

Genuine questions!! Thanks for your advancement in the N54 community...
This turbo should support nearly 30psi of boost when pushed towards it's upper operating range. So at 23psi, we are still being conservative. This power level has been proven to be perfectly safe so no sense in pushing customer cars harder than they need to be pushed.

We can't move the power curve to the left without swapping out the 62mm turbo and going with something smaller (52mm?). But that will hurt top end power in a big way. Regardless, the current setup has a wide powerband (over 3000RPM above 500lbft) and makes stock peak torque at under 3000rpm. So at no realistic driving condition does this car feel soft. Below 3000rpm, it feels like a stock car. Above that, it gets progressively more absurd.

The main limiting factor right now is my relative aversion to risk. Which means that we are probably going to keep max power in the 675-700whp range with the stock engine. We will leave 700+whp for strengthened blocks (piston/rods/sleeves). This particular turbo (62mm) should be able to to support just over 700whp with good efficiency. Beyond that, we will have to step it up to a 64mm turbo which will sacrifice a little transient response for more top end power. But it only makes sense to do that once we are testing on built engine making well over 700whp.

Shiv
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      12-18-2012, 05:41 PM   #11
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Any DCT progress yet?
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      12-18-2012, 05:42 PM   #12
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Quote:
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Any DCT progress yet?
I don't think the DCT transmission has any hope of supporting these torque levels without some sort of clutch-pack upgrade which, AFAIK, hasn't been successfully tested yet.
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      12-18-2012, 05:53 PM   #13
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That is awesome! Is Melissa single?
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      12-18-2012, 05:55 PM   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
This turbo should support nearly 30psi of boost when pushed towards it's upper operating range. So at 23psi, we are still being conservative. This power level has been proven to be perfectly safe so no sense in pushing customer cars harder than they need to be pushed.

We can't move the power curve to the left without swapping out the 62mm turbo and going with something smaller (52mm?). But that will hurt top end power in a big way. Regardless, the current setup has a wide powerband (over 3000RPM above 500lbft) and makes stock peak torque at under 3000rpm. So at no realistic driving condition does this car feel soft. Below 3000rpm, it feels like a stock car. Above that, it gets progressively more absurd.

The main limiting factor right now is my relative aversion to risk. Which means that we are probably going to keep max power in the 675-700whp range with the stock engine. We will leave 700+whp for strengthened blocks (piston/rods/sleeves). This particular turbo (62mm) should be able to to support just over 700whp with good efficiency. Beyond that, we will have to step it up to a 64mm turbo which will sacrifice a little transient response for more top end power. But it only makes sense to do that once we are testing on built engine making well over 700whp.

Shiv
Seems like some more is on the horizon soon, once someone has a fully built motor and ready to push the limits. Two more questions.
  1. How is the fueling reactiing to these levels of boost. Are there any other changes that will need to be made? I.E secondary fueling?
  2. Is FBIS upset he got his record beat by a girl?
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      12-18-2012, 05:57 PM   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
The funny thing is that Melissa has two baby seats in the back for her kids. And she drives it daily at this power level
She tells us that she drives like a grandma until the kids are dropped off at school and the has some tire-smoking fun on the way home.
Can't believe I'm the first to say it...



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      12-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NjRep335i View Post
Seems like some more is on the horizon soon, once someone has a fully built motor and ready to push the limits. Two more questions.
  1. How is the fueling reactiing to these levels of boost. Are there any other changes that will need to be made? I.E secondary fueling?
  2. Is FBIS upset he got his record beat by a girl?
Fortunately, there are no issues with fueling at this power level. I can't foresee having to use secondary injectors anytime soon (or ever).

I'm sure FBIS is okay But he got his record beaten a while ago by Captain Insano (657whp), Melissa (659whp) and "unofficially" me (622whp, but on on Mustang dyno... should be well over 700whp on Dynojet). But he has had a tuning update since then so my guess is that he is in-line with other standard VFF700 6MT cars now.

Shiv

PS. Sorry guys.. Melissa is happily married
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      12-18-2012, 06:01 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DefactoM6 View Post
Can't believe I'm the first to say it...



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      12-18-2012, 06:17 PM   #18
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Here's a pic of the car (not Melissa) with the hoosier slicks test fitted:
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      12-18-2012, 07:08 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Here's a pic of the car (not Melissa) with the hoosier slicks test fitted:
Sleeper.

Nice numbers Shiv
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      12-18-2012, 07:16 PM   #20
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Nooooo!

Congrats on the record Melissa. Are you running the basic fuel upgrade or Shivs octopus fuel pump monstrosity?
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      12-18-2012, 08:19 PM   #21
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Nice power levels! Car must haul some ass Any videos of the pull?
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      12-18-2012, 08:25 PM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shiv@vishnu View Post
Right now, using methanol for charge cooling is pretty critical at this power level.
?

With 100% e85 you can make way more than this turbo can put out, on other platforms.

I'm really interested in non-meth numbers, as we shouldn't really need it.

Great number BTW! I really would like for you to push the stock engine until it gives, a we know where that limit is.

Last edited by The Ghost; 12-18-2012 at 08:34 PM.
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