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      11-07-2015, 05:46 AM   #1
blucoop
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Turbo failure?

Can anyone answer these questions for me please?

1) would a failed turbo definitely bring up error codes?

2) would it cause grey smoke from exhaust (not blue/white) when driving?

3) would it cause bad fume smells at standstill?

4) would it cause weird gear changes especially when going up and down hills (auto box).

These are the symptoms along with loss of power , on my 2007 330d and the garage has diagnosed the turbo. No error codes. I thought maybe cracked manifold but apparently not. What do you think?

Thanks
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      11-07-2015, 05:58 AM   #2
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Hmm.

In my (albeit limited) experience, turbo failure tends to be pretty significant, and you wouldnt be driving around very far afterwards (as usually it'll piss all the engines oil into the intake or exhaust if you try to keep driving it)

As for your points:

1. Not neccesarily, but you might get a code relating to the fact the ECU cannot meet the boost target.

2. Yep, but the reality is, its very difficult to actually tell the difference between white/grey/blue when its pluming out the back of the car.

3. Not neccesarily?

4. I guess if the engines not producing any power, the gearbox might start doing stupid things?


For what its worth, i blew the turbo in a mates VW Bora in Italy a few years ago. It went "pop" very obviously, we stopped about 50m later, and had the engine idling for perhaps 1minute in total, and in that time it had managed to pump 2.5L of engine oil out of the sump into the exhuast sytem and intercooler. We were VERY lucky that he had a huge front mounted cooler on it, and the engine didnt start running on its own oil.

We diagnosed it in about 10minutes, at the roadside on a mountain in italy by pulling off the turbo intake hose.

If your still driving the car around, i'd maybe be thinking its something else...

Perhaps a cracked EGR cooler or something causing a boost leak?
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      11-07-2015, 07:18 AM   #3
blucoop
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Thanks for the reply, much appreciated.

I have been driving the car like this for a couple of months and the power has gradually decreased.

I'm thinking along the same lines as you in that if it was the turbo it would be much more obvious. It still has some power and the smoke is certainly not plumes, just a steady stream.

My egr thermostat has sprung a leak, could that be related to a cracked cooler.

Also the car is not using oil at all really .

Think the mechanic may be barking up the wrong tree
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      11-07-2015, 07:44 AM   #4
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Having owned a car with a blown turbo (petrol engine), it pumped out a LOT of white/blue smoke and you certainly knew about it!

From what you're telling me I don't believe the turbo is the problem here...
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      11-07-2015, 07:47 AM   #5
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Thanks rich. I'm thinking the same
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      11-07-2015, 09:37 AM   #6
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Does it give any error codes at all?

Just looking for some pointers here that could help diagnose.
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      11-07-2015, 10:01 AM   #7
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Nope no codes, well except for a fuel filter one which keeps coming back (changed it 3 times).

Your help is much appreciated as this car has nearly bankrupt me over the last 18 months and I'm fed up of chucking money at it.
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      11-07-2015, 10:13 AM   #8
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turbos in these car have electrical geometry adjustment, which allow get decent torque up to 2000 rpms, after that turbo is working on full throttle
and, when this flaps are congested with burnt oil it is do not work as expected and sometimes record error code, but do not lit check engine lamp
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      11-07-2015, 02:20 PM   #9
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Can anyone answer these questions for me please?

1) would a failed turbo definitely bring up error codes?

A/ in a nutsheel they can and they can't you can get boost related code failures and they'll register yet if the turbo goes AWOL you'll get a sudden loss of power(a slight jolt or a noise will be heard before it lets go)

2) would it cause grey smoke from exhaust (not blue/white) when driving?

A/ would agree with Aragorn30d that what you describe re smoke coloutr and what it may well be coourwise can be difficult.

3) would it cause bad fume smells at standstill?

A/ fume wise you could have something else going on for instance if you've got a glow plug/glow plug relay issue or even EGR issue you can especially when damp get a nasty smell.

Apart for a turbo having issue(if this is the case of course) if the breather had its day again it'll vent oil through the inlet you're car will consume oil and that will end up going right through the system and out the exhaust and yes you'll get smoke.

Cracked manifolds are known seen them before they crack around cylinder 2,3,4 where they join and appear as cracks which open up once the car warms up seen and changed a good few of these (around 320+VAT to buy), plus again fume wise if the flexi on the downpipe has cracked again you'll get fumes and via a visual inspection you may see soot contamination around the heatshileds as well as coating of the flexi etc.

4) would it cause weird gear changes especially when going up and down hills (auto box).

A/ Gearbox works in harmony withthe engine and DSC for instance they constantly talk to eachother, if the engine is losing power it may well have an effect, but you could also have a leaking gearbox pan and/or sleeve and yes this will cause all kinds of gearbox related woes as yours is a 2007 car its a prime candicate

These are the symptoms along with loss of power , on my 2007 330d and the garage has diagnosed the turbo. No error codes. I thought maybe cracked manifold but apparently not. What do you think

Turbo wise checking end float and resistance via removal of the inlet pipe will be a quick easy way to prove a theory you can also check the hosuing for scoring signs this will help to confirm a possible mechanical turbo issue, if you have something like this going on things like bearing failure and seal contamination via carbon contamination would be high on he agenda as the likely cause if you had say an actuator fault that would reduce power then you'd have boost threshold related faults as you say you have no fauls as such so it could be a mechanical issue re a component breaking down
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      11-08-2015, 06:06 AM   #10
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Thanks again for the detailed replies.

Car is still in bits at the garage so I'll see what they have to say tomorrow.

I'll take everything said here on board and hopefully can finally get the car sorted.

Cheers

Steve
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      11-12-2015, 04:05 PM   #11
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Update. Been to two mechanics since. Neither can find a fault other than the smoking, say turbo seems fine at high revs just a bit lazy at low revs. No boost or vacuum leaks found. I'm gonna swap maf and map sensors next .
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      11-12-2015, 05:18 PM   #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blucoop View Post
Update. Been to two mechanics since. Neither can find a fault other than the smoking, say turbo seems fine at high revs just a bit lazy at low revs. No boost or vacuum leaks found. I'm gonna swap maf and map sensors next .
Simple quick 53.00+VAT fix change the breather, smoke's smoke without seeing it there and then difficult to be sure but if your breathers like this one



and the base is swimming in oil like the one above was(the pics below are after we sucked some oil out)but before we cleaned the hole area up




then it is a good place to start, not saying for one minute its the answer to all your problems, but having seen so many of these cars before us the breathers often over looed and can contribute to so many issues
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      11-13-2015, 03:51 AM   #13
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Can you smell the fumes in the engine bay?

My 320d started choking me after a heavy footed B road session one afternoon. Thought maybe it was the flexi pipe on the exhaust, which is prone to go on these.

Took it to my mate who put it up on the ramps and said the exhaust looks brand new, it's not that. Under the bonnet you could hear a blowing noise, down the left hand side of the engine block and it absolutely stunk of diesel fumes.

Turns out the copper coloured pipe on the EGR cooler on the front of the engine had failed and was leaking fumes into the engine bay. Got an EGR delete now and not had a problem since.

I didn't notice it smoking any worse than normal though, just felt 'flat'.
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      11-13-2015, 02:50 PM   #14
blucoop
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Thanks for the replies.

I really do think it could be something egr related. If I disconnect the vacuum hose from egr valve and plug it, the smoke decreases a lot. Power loss is the same tho.

I've had the egr off and cleaned thoroughly and seems to be working ok. My egr thermostat has sprung a small leak recently and I'm now losing a bit of coolant.

The smell, although very obvious, is hard to pinpoint where it comes from.

My exhaust tone also sounds a bit odd. Hard to describe but definitely not normal.

With regards to the breather , my understanding was that there would be lots of smoke all the time , even at idle, which isn't the case. I would however be keen to check it. Is it easy to get at??

Once again thanks very much for all the help guys.
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      11-13-2015, 03:28 PM   #15
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It could well be EGR related seen a couple of EGR Coolers also let go sending all sorts of crap through the exhaust, but as I said and I get this a lot at work when someone describes smoke without seeing the isdue and spending sometime looking at it all you can do is speculate, as I said in the above post we've also seen condemned cars re turbo that have turned out to be breather related smoke's seen you expect the worse i.e. Turbo.
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      11-13-2015, 04:32 PM   #16
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Thanks old grey Steve.

I'm far from clued up on these things, just doing a lot of research to try and stop the haemorrhage of money I've had had recently on this car.

Can you point me in the direction of where to find he breather on the 330d? Is it easy to get at ie something I can do myself?

Cheers
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      11-13-2015, 05:11 PM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blucoop View Post
Thanks old grey Steve.

I'm far from clued up on these things, just doing a lot of research to try and stop the haemorrhage of money I've had had recently on this car.

Can you point me in the direction of where to find he breather on the 330d? Is it easy to get at ie something I can do myself?

Cheers
The breathers No11 in this diagram



sits a just behind the air filter assembly and to the right once the air filter exposed you'll see it nice'n'clear facing downwards the cover facing upwards
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      11-15-2015, 10:36 AM   #18
blucoop
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Thanks again Steve.

Another update, I fitted new maf sensor today and reset the adaptations, which has improved the car quite a bit. Less smoke, much smoother and top end power much better.

There's still some smoke though, more than there should be at part throttle. Car is still a bit lazy below 2000-2500 revs and still having slightly odd gear changes when going up and down hills.

Fumes smell is still present.

Chrissyw, which egr delete did u get? I assume it takes the cooler out of the equation too ??

Does anyone know if I can bypass the egr cooler temporarily to see if it solves it?

Not sure if I can check the breather myself as I've heard getting to the air filter on this car is a bit of a pig.

Gonna change map sensor next week.

Cheers

Steve
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      11-15-2015, 01:49 PM   #19
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Taking a slightly different view, anyone think these symptoms could be down to a dodgy injector?
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      11-15-2015, 02:42 PM   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by blucoop View Post
Taking a slightly different view, anyone think these symptoms could be down to a dodgy injector?
All very plausable hence smoke's smoke until investigated. Injectors can let go either via diagnostic a smooth running test of a good old fashioed leak off test(which you can do on a diesel will confirm if you are facing an injector fault)



the other thing to remeber is injectors "can compensate for each other" in otherwirds if one is 100% failing say No4 has let go then maybe No5 will compensate for No4's inability to deliver the goods this in tern can put strain on No5 as it will be working harder to make up for No4's deficiencies if you follow me. If you have the opportunity to do a smooth running check then this IMO give more info as you can look at live data
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      11-15-2015, 04:12 PM   #21
blucoop
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Cheers Steve.

I have done smooth running check on inpa and dis, all is ok at idle but under load 5 and 6 go a bit out of spec, hence my last question. I've just done a scan and got a smooth running fault. I'll try and find the inpa pic to show you.

Thanks again
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      11-15-2015, 04:22 PM   #22
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