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      01-10-2013, 02:05 PM   #1
MSport35TT
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Berger Motor Sport...You decide

So I am looking for some additional product information from Berger Motorsport so i go ahead and contact Terry with the per-sale and support team. This is what I get for a response, please see the email chain below...



Quote:
Terry,

I am interested in purchasing the item below for my 2010 335xi with AR down pipes. I do have some questions through; How does this mesh with a COBB tune? Also what other thing should I be aware of with downpipes regarding to timing? This product says it helps with those problems, can you expand on this? Thanks.

http://www.burgertuning.com/dpfix.html

Quote:
Hi,

There isn't any addl info we can offer you on the product. Sorry,

T
Quote:
How is it that you can’t expand on what you are advertising? Are you not qualified to answer any product questions? Your email provided on the site indicates “pre-sale support”. Can you forward me on to someone that will be able to answer my questions? Thanks.

Quote:
This product is for dedicated race cars or those used outside the USA only. There is no additional pre-sale support for it and it sounds like it's not for you.

Best,
T
Quote:
Thank you for your lack of professionalism, I will be sure to share this with members of the BMW forums.

Quote:
The product is not available for street cars. It's a product for race teams only and cars sold outside the USA. It's not meant for continuous use, etc. It seems every few days we get someone emailing in asking how they can use this product to cheat a smog test and frankly we're close to just removing the product from the market as we don't want those headaches. So, it's not that we don't want to help you, but its likely we will stop selling this product all together shortly.

Best,
T

Are you kidding me! How is it that you talk to a perspective customer in such a rude manner. Clearly it is his job to help with product questions and it is clear that Terry could care less. Just wanted to share this with everyone and hear your thoughts.
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      01-10-2013, 02:13 PM   #2
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Don't take it personal. Maybe you aren't aware of this, but BMS and any other company can be held liable if they are selling a product for street cars that is illegal in many states for street cars. It makes perfect sense that he's being tight lipped and sticking to his guns that this is for offroad use only. It also sounds like you haven't dealt with BMS much; it's widely accepted that Terry and his team provide the best customer service among our vendors. They are the gold standard. In this case it sounds like communication broke down between your frustration to not get the answer you wanted. Don't be so quick to bash people, either.
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      01-10-2013, 02:16 PM   #3
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However it is good to know they may stop selling it...I better pick one up!
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      01-10-2013, 02:18 PM   #4
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Uhhh, to be blunt, it seems to me you initiated any rudeness.

Disclaimer: I've never done any business with BMS and wouldn't know Terry from anyone on the street.
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      01-10-2013, 02:20 PM   #5
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You should just email back with a different email saying it's for your track car I guess...
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      01-10-2013, 02:20 PM   #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney
However it is good to know they may stop selling it...I better pick one up!
+1 exactly what I was thinking

Sorry about your weird experience OP. What were your specific questions about the DP fix? I'm sure someone on the forums could answer them for you. I find that the forum members here are often more willing/qualified to answer questions than some of the vendors...
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      01-10-2013, 02:36 PM   #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney View Post
Don't take it personal. Maybe you aren't aware of this, but BMS and any other company can be held liable if they are selling a product for street cars that is illegal in many states for street cars. It makes perfect sense that he's being tight lipped and sticking to his guns that this is for offroad use only. It also sounds like you haven't dealt with BMS much; it's widely accepted that Terry and his team provide the best customer service among our vendors. They are the gold standard. In this case it sounds like communication broke down between your frustration to not get the answer you wanted. Don't be so quick to bash people, either.
If you look at the original question in which I emailed him it was to expand on the description of the product. The description mentioned "timing issues" solved and I wanted to know if that is a common thing that comes about with DPs and why/how this product fixes that. There is a way to handle customers and that was not it at all. You say they have great customer service, well this is not helping your claim.

Regardless, I am over it. I would however like to know exactly what this product will do with a COBB tune and AR dps. Can you expand on this or be able to point me to a thread, I have been searching but no luck. Thanks

Last edited by MSport35TT; 01-10-2013 at 02:45 PM.
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      01-10-2013, 02:40 PM   #8
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this info is widely available on the forum as well. Poor guy probably gets this question 10 times a day. At least you got replies from him, try to email some other vendors and you might just flat out not even get a reply.
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      01-10-2013, 03:01 PM   #9
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      01-10-2013, 03:02 PM   #10
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You wouldn't even get a timely answer, terse or not, from 80% of the companies out there...You may not like what you're hearing, but you can't expect BMS to go around advertising a product that is illegal depending on how it is used. I don't blame Terry one bit.
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      01-10-2013, 03:11 PM   #11
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Yep, I wouldn't take it personally. He's just being careful.
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      01-10-2013, 03:29 PM   #12
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While on the topic can anyone shed light on to this?

My inspection is good until 2015 so passing inspection is not my consern. My concern is with bringing it in to BMW while the car is still under Manufacture Warranty till 9/2013 and CPO till 9/2015. I have Cobb stage 2 to bypass the CEL for now but when I un-flash it to bring it in for service will the DP Fix help with hiding the CEL w/ out the help of COBB stage 2? Also how does is this compatible with a COBB installed on top? Thanks
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      01-10-2013, 03:34 PM   #13
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google is your best friend
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      01-10-2013, 03:40 PM   #14
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At least he responded ......... bms did sound dreary in their response ......
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      01-10-2013, 03:57 PM   #15
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I work in the eCommerce industry and I deal with this stuff all the time.

Let me shine a light on this situation, and again, I have no affiliations or ties to BMS.

He's selling a product that isn't DOT approved or road legal as it lets you get passed a specific code that BMW wrote into the DME/ECU to protect average road going cars against emission violations. It is designed for that situation where your car isn't registered for road use, therefore not required to adhere to the laws of public motorways. The government could fine the bejeesus out of his company if he doesn't word himself correctly, also he could also be sued by an individual who uses the product and sees legal issues for using the product on public highways. That's the explanation for the short vague answers.

As for the rudeness, that's misplaced. Something was lost in translation with this message. You feel the fact that he turned you away for business and didn't elaborate on what his product could do for you was a blatant jab at you. Wrong. He was just protecting his ass. I've had one or two interactions with Terry's company, one of which was to Terry directly. I asked him a series of questions in regards to his JB4 ISO piggy backs, he answer maybe 2 out of the 10 questions I asked. I told him about the Dinan stg 2 tune that was on my car, and his major reply was it would be much faster with the JB4 stacked on top. I thought about it instantly in the same manner. "Doesn't this man know who I am?" No he doesn't. It doesn't matter how many racecars or bikes I've built, I'm not anybody that's spent money just yet with him nor does he realize any of this. If he woulda told you that you weren't smart enough to read and research the forums, yeah that would have been rude as hell and I would have sent him a package with dog shit in it.

Keep in mind, this man most likely answers over 100 emails a day. I know I approach twice that sometimes and I can be short/to the point. Don't take it personal and remember, he's not selling you a house or a set of tits; it's just a car part.

He was correct in saying my car is a lot faster with the JB4 g5 ISO piggied on the Dinan flash. I didn't buy it directly from BMS, which I kinda regret but I did get it on a smokin' deal. I don't expect him to troubleshoot anything for me but I know if I get on n54tech, he will shoot an answer out if he can.

Have patience my friend, the internet is a crazy place.
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      01-10-2013, 04:01 PM   #16
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Not rude at all.

However, I can see how he would have interpreted your replies as rude. In fact, I don't know how you can re-read that exchange and not realize it. Sometimes it takes a fresh perspective and third set of eyes to see this. Maybe you didn't intend for it to be that way, but it sure came off that way. People in customer service positions are there for customer service, but they're not your vassals or anything.
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      01-10-2013, 04:02 PM   #17
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I get your joke....
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      01-10-2013, 04:40 PM   #18
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Originally Posted by Bimmer Barney View Post
However it is good to know they may stop selling it...I better pick one up!
Good Point, looking into one now...just in case!!
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      01-10-2013, 05:19 PM   #19
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MSport35TT View Post
While on the topic can anyone shed light on to this?

My inspection is good until 2015 so passing inspection is not my consern. My concern is with bringing it in to BMW while the car is still under Manufacture Warranty till 9/2013 and CPO till 9/2015. I have Cobb stage 2 to bypass the CEL for now but when I un-flash it to bring it in for service will the DP Fix help with hiding the CEL w/ out the help of COBB stage 2? Also how does is this compatible with a COBB installed on top? Thanks
You probably won't get busted by the techs/dealer because of the catless codes, all it will take is a simple look at the undercarriage and it will be plain as day obvious that you have no primary cats. Though they'll also read the dme for faults so you're a bit screwed either way. If a dealer cares about catless downpipes (and most do), dpfix is not going to save you.
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      01-10-2013, 05:31 PM   #20
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Why would someone selling a product go deep into how it works? For one its an off road use product. You can find a hundred threads here and on his forum of it doing as it says and kills the light for the missing cats. Sorry you didnt get the answer you were looking for but in my emails with Terry he gives me the answer I need. Does it work, yes or no. Can I do this and make it do something else, again yes or no. He has answered every email Ive ever sent his way. Ive bought a few things from BMS and havent had a single issue.
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      01-10-2013, 06:07 PM   #21
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 135Pats View Post
You probably won't get busted by the techs/dealer because of the catless codes, all it will take is a simple look at the undercarriage and it will be plain as day obvious that you have no primary cats. Though they'll also read the dme for faults so you're a bit screwed either way. If a dealer cares about catless downpipes (and most do), dpfix is not going to save you.
Thank you I guess it's up to the SA in this case or the actual tech uncovering this?
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      01-10-2013, 06:17 PM   #22
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LOL, do you have any idea how busy Terry is?
He doesnt have time to answer how downpipes are going to affect your car when that info is all over the forums.
Oh and its illegal for him to sell them for street use.
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