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      03-07-2013, 11:04 PM   #23
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what is this LR plugin you speak of. Link?
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      03-07-2013, 11:24 PM   #24
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what is this LR plugin you speak of. Link?
I have no personal experience with LR, but here's where I first read about their lens adjustment software:

http://photographylife.com/lightroom-3-lens-correction
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      03-08-2013, 04:37 AM   #25
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Dave you make many good points, although I am partial on the subject. Personally Prime Shooting makes me think about elements of design more, such as composition. I like the movement/activity levels primes offer. In the past (t3i 50mm 1.8 days) I found myself loving the quality and aperture play the prime offered, but also felt mysteriously restricted. I thought some of my best results came from that flimsy lens. Maybe that is because my kit 17-55 5.6 would not do the job to my liking back then. Today I like my standard zoom lens because it is high-quality multi-purpose. I classify it as my practicle everywhere lens. Any of my work looks great shot through this lens. But I do find my more artistic side wanting a 35, 50, or 85 for the aperture and strange enough for the restricted frame! It's a odd thing: prime vs. zoom. To each his own. We will see what gets added next to the kit For now, I can't complain. Really.
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      03-08-2013, 09:35 AM   #26
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Great discussion Hreed. I appreciate that you've got reasons for your prime preference and it's not just because old farts like me used to use Ektachrome and use only primes, but mainly because that's all we had.

Your point about being more active with primes is interesting. I get plenty of exercise lugging my 500mm around most of the time, but I think that you meant more about positioning your camera with your feet to get your feet right. I had decades of experience with only a couple of focal lengths in my bag, so I know how to do that, but those that grew up in the hay day of zooms might try, as an exercise, working with primes for specific periods of time.

When using a zoom, for the best shots, you need to use both your feet and your zoom. When I get the right light, at the correct angle, I still will mess with the zoom a little, including, excluding, moving the horizon up, down, etc. I also will often look beyond the original file and consider whether I'll need to have room to straighten tilting buildings that might use up some of the frame.

My main travel lens is my 24-105mm on a FF body. When I look at my focal length actually used, it's seldom 24mm or 105mm. It'll be more like 28mm, 42mm, 85mm, etc. with under 20% at full 24mm and usually at f/8 or f/11. I'm not real big into effects, so I usually strive for everything in focus. Yesterday I looked through over 1800 shots, trying to find some examples of bokeh with the 24-105mm and found only a couple of handfuls. People were complaining about that lens' bokeh, but I found it nice and effective.

Here's one shot at 102mm and f/4 to get some bokeh:


Ornament by dcstep, on Flickr

If I think about when I was taking this shot, if I'd really wanted to assure the very best bokeh from my lenses, I would have chosen my 70-200mm f/4L IS, which throws really nice bokeh. I'd just taken a shot or two of the grand daughters opening presents with focal length in the 35 to 50mm range. I might have changed lenses, but I doubt that the thought crossed my mind. Instead, I thought, "Open up, zoom out, move in close" and still got a very good shot, IMO. That's the beauty of zooms for me and with DLO software, I don't feel like I'm sacrificing quality, even when shooting a scenic on a tripod, with mirror lock up and remote shutter release.

Dave
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      03-08-2013, 01:46 PM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Great discussion Hreed. I appreciate that you've got reasons for your prime preference and it's not just because old farts like me used to use Ektachrome and use only primes, but mainly because that's all we had.

Your point about being more active with primes is interesting. I get plenty of exercise lugging my 500mm around most of the time, but I think that you meant more about positioning your camera with your feet to get your feet right. I had decades of experience with only a couple of focal lengths in my bag, so I know how to do that, but those that grew up in the hay day of zooms might try, as an exercise, working with primes for specific periods of time.

When using a zoom, for the best shots, you need to use both your feet and your zoom. When I get the right light, at the correct angle, I still will mess with the zoom a little, including, excluding, moving the horizon up, down, etc. I also will often look beyond the original file and consider whether I'll need to have room to straighten tilting buildings that might use up some of the frame.

My main travel lens is my 24-105mm on a FF body. When I look at my focal length actually used, it's seldom 24mm or 105mm. It'll be more like 28mm, 42mm, 85mm, etc. with under 20% at full 24mm and usually at f/8 or f/11. I'm not real big into effects, so I usually strive for everything in focus. Yesterday I looked through over 1800 shots, trying to find some examples of bokeh with the 24-105mm and found only a couple of handfuls. People were complaining about that lens' bokeh, but I found it nice and effective.

Here's one shot at 102mm and f/4 to get some bokeh:


Ornament by dcstep, on Flickr

If I think about when I was taking this shot, if I'd really wanted to assure the very best bokeh from my lenses, I would have chosen my 70-200mm f/4L IS, which throws really nice bokeh. I'd just taken a shot or two of the grand daughters opening presents with focal length in the 35 to 50mm range. I might have changed lenses, but I doubt that the thought crossed my mind. Instead, I thought, "Open up, zoom out, move in close" and still got a very good shot, IMO. That's the beauty of zooms for me and with DLO software, I don't feel like I'm sacrificing quality, even when shooting a scenic on a tripod, with mirror lock up and remote shutter release.

Dave
Well depending on the look you're going for and the desired effects. Shooting fast primes allows you to control your Depth of Field much better than something that is f/4 wide open.

For car photos or landscapes you'll generally stop down, and stopped down most lenses (Save for a few truly bad ones) are tack sharp anyway, so for those purposes you're right.

It's also nice to see that these primes are at peak sharpness by f/2.8 where most heavy duty zooms wide open are f/2.8 at best.

And then theres low light performance. With a 5D3 body it's less of an issue, but on a lesser camera body, the difference between f/2.8 and f/4 means twice the shutter speed, huge for any kind of event shooting.

I used to always go for my 24-70, but after going with primes it made my shooting better (usually shoot with 2 bodies anyway so a 35/85 makes a good combo). Different strokes I guess though.

Been using a fuji x100 a lot lately and it's been my go to for when i don't want to carry a lot of kit with me.
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      03-08-2013, 02:10 PM   #28
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I seldom shoot for bokeh, except with my super-tele, where it's almost a requirement, due to the shallow DOF. For portraits, I pull out the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS which, to my eye, has pleasing bokeh, out at its long end.


IMG_2321PS by dcstep, on Flickr

That's before final crop.

Still, if I were to get seriously into the portrait business, I might buy one or two primes in the 85mm to 200mm focal lengths (full-frame) for the added flexibility in that medium. I see the point, but don't shoot enough in that genre (I'm usually going for realism) that I feel a need for such a lens.

Dave
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      03-08-2013, 02:20 PM   #29
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Agreed, canon's dedicated tele's almost always have had pleasing bokeh. If you do ever get your hands on a 85L though, it's construction, sharpness and bokeh (when you want it) are pretty unmatched. The thing is seriously the size of a grapefruit haha.
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      03-08-2013, 02:29 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by druu View Post
Agreed, canon's dedicated tele's almost always have had pleasing bokeh. ....
I call it Bokeh Heaven:


What have we here...? by dcstep, on Flickr
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      03-08-2013, 05:06 PM   #31
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Even with the 24-105 f/4L bokeh is nice. The first one is one of the first shots I took the day I got the camera, given the slight blurriness around the nails. The crop and left hand side of the image really draw me in. The second shot is of a sheet of ice I hauled out of my pool. I propped it up right, and took the shot with the sun behind the ice. You might be guessing if I didn't tell you.

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And one random landscape I unintentionally uploaded. I augmented the shot with a slight gradient (left to right) to smooth a stormy-to-normal transition. Can see those mountains (on a large "retina display" mac computer at least, not mine however lol) Not sure why there is a dust spec bottom right thou, not in original dont think.
Name:  StormPost1.JPG
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These are portrait shots on my old T3i body with the 50mm prime. Both shots were very much unintended but turned out super. I miss narrow(er) DOF opportunities... I love using a thin DOF to isolate the subject, for example her eyelashes. Really works well.

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Also I thought you guys might like to see one of my more... abstract creations for a surrealism assignment in class. Just one of my bitches

Name:  Hunter Reed SurrealismPost1.JPG
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      03-27-2013, 09:08 PM   #32
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Primes all day. And night too
Im a Canon guy, too!
MIII owner here

35L 85L 135L
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      03-27-2013, 09:11 PM   #33
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Also own 24-105 and 16-35.

But they just relax in a drawer until I go on vacation.
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      04-06-2013, 10:05 PM   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryebread View Post
Primes all day. And night too
Im a Canon guy, too!
MIII owner here

35L 85L 135L
I love my 35L 50L and 100L ! Funny how that happens..
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      04-08-2013, 05:18 PM   #35
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hehe love the discussion that's been going around on this thread. I remember starting out thinking a 24-70 & 70-200 is all I need since I'd cover such a vast focal length. Today I want I'm selling my 24-70 cause I haven't mounted it on my camera for at least a year. & when I do I just can't catch a rhythm with it. I wouldn't go so far as to say that shooting zoom lens restricts creativity. You can shoot whatever you want. But for my personality & philosophy (photo-losophy?) I like engaging with my surroundings. As a portraiture my mere movements helps me interact with everything that is going on around me & allows me to engage with my clients.
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      04-08-2013, 05:19 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
I seldom shoot for bokeh, except with my super-tele, where it's almost a requirement, due to the shallow DOF. For portraits, I pull out the EF 70-200mm f/4L IS which, to my eye, has pleasing bokeh, out at its long end.


IMG_2321PS by dcstep, on Flickr

That's before final crop.

Still, if I were to get seriously into the portrait business, I might buy one or two primes in the 85mm to 200mm focal lengths (full-frame) for the added flexibility in that medium. I see the point, but don't shoot enough in that genre (I'm usually going for realism) that I feel a need for such a lens.

Dave
Beautiful portrait btw - love the BW render
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      04-08-2013, 11:35 PM   #37
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selling two canon lenses
http://www.e90post.com/forums/showth...7#post13787647
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      04-09-2013, 10:23 AM   #38
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Superb excellent shots! As you've mentioned, superb performance under low-light conditions
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      04-09-2013, 10:25 AM   #39
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[quote=Hreed;13606728]Even with the 24-105 f/4L bokeh is nice. The first one is one of the first shots I took the day I got the camera, given the slight blurriness around the nails. The crop and left hand side of the image really draw me in. The second shot is of a sheet of ice I hauled out of my pool. I propped it up right, and took the shot with the sun behind the ice. You might be guessing if I didn't tell you.

Attachment 828296
/QUOTE]


At first glance, I thought those were earthworms, and wondering what they were doing up there... I like the bokeh.. creamy...
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      04-16-2013, 09:27 AM   #40
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B&H is selling the EF 2.0X TC-III for $429, including shipping. I ordered mine yesterday to be ready for the firmware update coming out any day, allowing AF down to f/8.

I think that the deal is through the end of this month.

Dave
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      04-16-2013, 10:00 AM   #41
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b+h has 50 1.2L for 1369.00 new usa copy!

I just changed my lineup
from
16-35
24-105
35L
85L
135L

to just 3 prime lenses
24Lii
50L
85L



Canon Kit 2012 by Ryan Philly, on Flickr
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      04-16-2013, 06:38 PM   #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ryebread View Post
b+h has 50 1.2L for 1369.00 new usa copy!

I just changed my lineup
from
16-35
24-105
35L
85L
135L

to just 3 prime lenses
24Lii
50L
85L



Canon Kit 2012 by Ryan Philly, on Flickr

nice switch! actually trying to sell my 24-70 to get some money for an 85mm; i optioned for the 35mm instead of the 24mm cause there is just too much distortion for my taste on the 24mm.. but I will admit the 24mm has its place!
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      04-16-2013, 06:57 PM   #43
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Originally Posted by spacemonkey1112 View Post
nice switch! actually trying to sell my 24-70 to get some money for an 85mm; i optioned for the 35mm instead of the 24mm cause there is just too much distortion for my taste on the 24mm.. but I will admit the 24mm has its place!
Whoa! Don't judge until you've used the lens with all the tools intended to be used with it. Do your Raw conversion in Digital Photo Professional while the Digital Lens Optimization function is turned on. It'll make a HUGE difference with WA lenses. With zooms, it corrects for geometric distortion, CA, vignetting, etc. at every focal length and every aperture. With a prime, it's a piece of cake.

You can add DLO modules to LR and DxO Optics Pro comes with it included.

People using primes to get speed make sense to me, but even primes need a lot of help at wide open apertures. Zooms need as much or more help at their wide ends. Too many people are not realizing the capabilities of their lenses.
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      04-16-2013, 08:18 PM   #44
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dcstep View Post
Whoa! Don't judge until you've used the lens with all the tools intended to be used with it. Do your Raw conversion in Digital Photo Professional while the Digital Lens Optimization function is turned on. It'll make a HUGE difference with WA lenses. With zooms, it corrects for geometric distortion, CA, vignetting, etc. at every focal length and every aperture. With a prime, it's a piece of cake.

You can add DLO modules to LR and DxO Optics Pro comes with it included.

People using primes to get speed make sense to me, but even primes need a lot of help at wide open apertures. Zooms need as much or more help at their wide ends. Too many people are not realizing the capabilities of their lenses.
Don't get me wrong, the 24mm is a wonderful lens, but for my line of work, its not priority. I do use the DLO in LR when I need to, but the characteristics of the 24mm isn't my cup of tea

Also, when i picked up my dslr in 06, the 24-70 was my first lens (bought my 20D body only). It is great but, over the years I've developed a shooting style and a workflow that the 24-70 doesn't fit into anymore. Personally everyone has their reasons to shoot primes or zooms & im not here to tell people one is better than the other. For how I work, 24-70 ruins my rhythm
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